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Paypal debt collectors :(

Discussion in 'PayPal' started by crazyryan, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. FlyingBear

    FlyingBear Peon

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    #21
    why paypal sent debt collector to get you? you got payment but did not deliver products? why someone opened a dispute against you?
    SEMrush
    If that's the case, although you are 14, you may not need pay it, but your parents will have to pay it. Your age is not the excuse of avoiding your responsibility.


    bear
     
    FlyingBear, Sep 20, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. eddy2099

    eddy2099 Peon

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    #22

    So you are saying that a kid can be as irresponsible as they want because the other party must always give in. That the kid can totally disregard contracts, warnings and TOS and have your blessings to do what is morally wrong ?

    The contract with minor clause works in the good old days where contracts are signed and done face to face but in the world of the internet, it is just not possible.

    So how far you want a vendor to go to verify the other party's age, ask for a birth certificate, a photo ID or visit the office so as to complete the deal. I mean some of you would cite invasion of privacy when say a payment provider calls up the customer to ask if they make the purchase or when some payment processor ask you to fax or scan your passport or driving license to proof your true identity.

    When was the last time you dealt with customers online and go to the extend to determine who they really are and if they can legally deal ? I see web sites and web services bought and sold here with only a Paypal Payment and maybe a DNS Registrar User ID and the deal is done. When was the last time you asked for a birth certificate, Photo ID or the likes ?

    If you don't like Paypal, it does not give you the license to fraud it or not take responsibility.
     
    eddy2099, Sep 20, 2006 IP
  3. Connections

    Connections Well-Known Member

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    #23

    yes true, they will go after his parents as they are the ones who own the credit card to get into paypal to start with, obviously this kid has not read the TOS or paypal aswell and has made a breach in it, his parents are at fault.

    If you dont pay the fine they will give your parents or yourself a BAD credit rating for life and also they will just come and REPO your good liek you TV, computer or mobile phone any thing they can sell to make back the 85 pound...they dont take beds or clothes or food lol
     
    Connections, Sep 20, 2006 IP
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  4. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #24
    It isn't fraud or a "loophole"..These laws are in place to protect minors. Paypal is fully aware that minors can easily use their service and it is their responsibility to ensure that doesn't happen. 14 year olds are not mature or responsible enough to enter into a contract...period.

    Paypals greed doesn't give them a right to put a 14 year old in a situation where they are pushed into a financial mistake that can follow them around the rest of their life.

    It is a pet peeve of mine that Paypal purposely doesn't verify age in order to expand their customer base. They have made loads of money off the backs of minors so the whole "scamming" finger is mispointed. The reason they don't verify age is that the money they make from minors well outweighs the money they are unable to claim back.

    If they were losing money, you would see age verification within minutes.

    What they are doing is wrong and the law is clearly on the minors side.

     
    yfs1, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  5. eddy2099

    eddy2099 Peon

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    #25
    So basically what you are saying is that the minor can do whatever they want without consequence.

    Without a face-to-face, how do you propose that we can be sure we are not dealing with minors online, ie like ensuring they do not use fake ID or ignoring TOS or even ordering from you ?
     
    eddy2099, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  6. turhapuro

    turhapuro Peon

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    #26
    Now listen kids and adults, listen to Sir. Uuno!

    I have been taught that if you see money, you take it, if you see woman,
    you take it, take everything and leave others nothing! Trust Uuno! Take
    all and leave others nothing, thats the way for a better life, and while you
    are at it, steal others content too, this way you can work faster..... Well
    maybe thats not that good idea after all, you could get sued. Anyway its
    right to steal if you don\t get caught, my father was wise enough to point
    that out to me. I cant understand all these flower people that want to share
    things, thats like un natural and stupid, why would you share with others
    when you can keep it all to your self? Cause it makes you happy? Buy drugs
    and be happy....:mad:
     
    turhapuro, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  7. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #27
    When it comes to entering legal contracts, absolutely. Thats why anyone entering a legal contract with a minor without verifying their age does so at their own risk.

    The law is very clear and is extremely important.

    Lol, thanks for your contribution :rolleyes:
     
    yfs1, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  8. eddy2099

    eddy2099 Peon

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    #28
    So how do you propose we can be sure we do not deal with minors online when we cannot see the other party in question ?
     
    eddy2099, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  9. Connections

    Connections Well-Known Member

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    #29
    I dont know what countries you people are from but it doesnt matter what age your from in my country if your a 14 year old paypal would sue the family.

    Just pay it off you have obviously done something dodgey for paypal to be after you.
     
    Connections, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  10. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #30
    If you are entering into small contracts like buying their sites, you can IM with them and try to get an idea of their age. Obviously you aren't going to request proof of age if its a $50 transaction. Having a contract nullified is part of the risk of doing business.

    If it was a large contract, I would definately request proof of age. If you weren't confident they weren't a minor, I would just forget about the deal.

    In this particular case, Paypal is actually trying to take advantage of a minor. If you reread the thread you will see Paypal froze his funds due to his minor status in one account (Which had a few hundred pounds) yet sent a collection letter for £85 on the other one due to someone claiming back.

    Their refusal to let the minor "settle up" just goes to show what lengths companies will go to to take advantage of a minors inability to enter a contract.

    This thread is actually a perfect example of why minor DO NEED the protection the law provides.

    Are minors always the innocent ones? Yes, they are purely based on their amount of life experience and maturity. It can suck if you truly are in a situation where a minor with this knowledge takes advantage of you but you have to try to be vigilant.

    I don't know the law if they set out to scam you from the beggining (and you can prove it). In that situation their may be some recourse against the parents. In the case of Paypal though, they are not being scammed by Ryannn

    What is your country?
     
    yfs1, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  11. eddy2099

    eddy2099 Peon

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    #31
    The TOS states

    If you read the User Agreement, it clearly states that Paypal is not for anyone under 18 and they have the right to terminate the contract. So you are saying that Paypal is doing wrong by freezing his account because they found out he is a minor ?

    You only heard from the minor, he was dishonest with Paypal, what makes you think he is honestly telling you the truth here and not hide anything ? For all you know, the kid was dishonest in his dealing with his customers which was above and beyond the several hundreds already in his account and the £85 is that amount.

    It is also possible that Paypal realizing he is a minor is now returning all the funds he has frauduently collected to his customers.

    Wouldn't you say that the right thing to do as parents and as mature adults would be to teach our kids responsibility instead of telling them to have no regards for responsibility and that they can do anything they like without consequences. The law is one thing but being morally responsible is another.
     
    eddy2099, Sep 21, 2006 IP
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  12. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #32
    No, his account should be terminated absolutely..What is wrong is keeping the money in his account yet still trying to collect other money.
    Of course he could be lying...He could be making up the £85 part or even having a Paypal account in the first place. My advice is only based on the facts presented and if they were completely true, I stand by it.

    If not, it would be for a court to decide on who would actually have all the facts
    That actually isn't their policy. I have never seen a case where they did that without a claim in place. It doesn't change the fact that a contract never actually existed so no money should be owed by either party.
    He should definately have to take responsibility but I don't believe Paypal should profit from it. If it was my kid, I would refuse to give Paypal a dime for letting my minor child get into this mess. I would then make him work his ass off around the house and for neighbours to make that £85 and donate it to a suitable charity.
     
    yfs1, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  13. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #33

    They cannot go after his parents.

    Do not need a credit card to get a paypal account.

    They cannot repo anything in this situation.

    They can barely effect your credit rating... much less damage it for life.

    Peace
     
    Sem-Advance, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  14. Connections

    Connections Well-Known Member

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    #34

    It all depends how he set up this account, my guess is the account was set up with his mums credit card???

    my guess is that paypal will go after the mum, the mum will get the bad credit rating, if its not paid.

    the kid will just cop it lol and have to pay back his mum hehehehe...


    but its hard to make these comments, different countries have different laws, some of the posts people on here are making makes it fell liek their from china or something lol.
     
    Connections, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  15. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #35
    That is a pretty big assumption there isn't it?
     
    yfs1, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  16. Sem-Advance

    Sem-Advance Notable Member

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    #36
    Yes it is and considering hes 14 he most likely does not have a credit card

    Next to use the credit card it has to match the account holders name...

    Since the account holder is 14 and cannot have a credit card legally in his name there is in all probability 99% chance a credit card was not used.


    Next I do not get all the people who are defending Paypal when Paypal itself advised that the child most likely would not have to pay.

    .


    I would presume rung them up would mean them is Paypal

    and the person is not his mum, but the Paypal Customer Service Rep

    If Paypal admits they've made a mistake ....whats all the fuss about????:confused:
     
    Sem-Advance, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  17. Connections

    Connections Well-Known Member

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    #37
    Man its life, its like taking out a loan with a bank with borrowed money, you take out the loan and you use equity from a friend, you go bankrupt then the bank takes your friends house aswell. Yet your friends say why me? why me?
    well it was your choice to use them and your friend has let you!

    Some one payed for this kids internet connection! it was your choice to give your son the credit card etc etc!


    But if the kid feels like he wants to fight this, it will involve legal action and if he cant afford 85 bucks how is he going afford court costs lol to fight paypal, sending a letter or making a call will not work with these big companies becuase in the end they dont care, all they care about is getting their money back.


    If you owe some one money, pay it back, its not hard.

    This is a silly argument to be gettign into, it seems liek a lot of people really hate paypal on here.
     
    Connections, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  18. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #38

    Connections - It has nothing to do with hating Paypal. This is a legal situation and has nothing to do with the "Co-signer" example you gave. If your freind co-signs a loan, I can guarantee the bank verified their age and they signed an agreement that their property would eb at risk.

    As far as court costs, there would be none. Paypal already admitted its mistake and even if it didn't, Ryannn would not need legal representation (They couldn't sue a minor anyway)

    In this day of computers in schools etc, What if a 6 year old signed up for Paypal...Are you telling me they should be financially responsible?
     
    yfs1, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  19. Jasonb

    Jasonb Well-Known Member

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    #39
    Yer man thats about $170 or something, the only reason they would have opend a dispute is becouse you must have tryd skanking them some how, they must have sent you £85 first mate, i also think there is more important things to be talking and thinking about.
     
    Jasonb, Sep 21, 2006 IP
  20. eddy2099

    eddy2099 Peon

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    #40
    I am recalling what I've learnt in school about the Contract Law, if I am not wrong, when in contract with a minor, the contract can be voidable by the minor. However when the contract is void, all moneys and goods must be returned. The seller can reclaim the goods delivered.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voidable explains what voidable is.


    So for example, say if a minor enters a pet store and purchase a pet dog. The sales is not final. The minor can return the dog and get his money back.

    It does not mean that he can change his mind, keep the dog and get the money back. A voidable contract is one which would put both parties in the position where the contract never happened. By not returning the money, the contract is not void because someone is at a disadvantage.

    This explains it best http://www.sylaw.org/docs/Contracting.htm

    So in the signup form of Paypal, there is the terms and conditions, there is a checkbox to tick to affirms that the person who sign up agrees to the terms. By doing so, the minor lies about being above 18 and at that stage, Paypal doesn't have any reasons to doubt it. So in this case, under Common Law, the minor cannot be freed from the contract.

    http://www.answers.com/topic/contract

    http://law.freeadvice.com/general_practice/contract_law/contract_valid.htm

    Thus in the cases above, the contracts are voidable by the minor but the minor cannot have the cake and eat it. Basically, nullify the contract and put it to a stage as if the contract never took place.

    So it is wrong for the minor to keep the money and not return it. A contract which is voided must be done in full and not partially.
     
    eddy2099, Sep 21, 2006 IP
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