Hello. Since about 2 months ago, I've been working very closely with a client regarding some website design work. Our company has a strict no-refund policy, and about a month into designing it, he decides spontaneously his money is better spent elsewhere. I woke up one morning to see that he disputed me in Paypal. I spoke with him about it, and long story short, he decided he wants to proceed with the project, so he cancelled the dispute. About a week later, even after he told me he was satisfied with the results o f the project, I see that he's filed a chargeback with his credit card issuer. I received this email from Paypal: Here's my Terms of Service page for reference: Terms of Service Veko Media owns and operates this website as a subsidiary business to custom online/print media design and development. By using and purchasing from this website you agree to comply and agree with the following terms and conditions. Please make certain to read this and other documents regarding our policies on this website. If you do not agree with the terms put forth in this document you have no right to obtain information from or otherwise use this website. Failure to use this website in accordance with the following terms of use may subject you to severe civil and criminal penalties. This agreement in its entirety constitutes the agreement between Veko Media and you. This agreement is superseding to all prior agreements, representations, warranties, etc with respect to Veko Media. Veko Media reserves the right to amend this agreement at any time without specific notice. Be sure to frequently review this document through your usage of this website. Products, graphics, design, content, identity, creative development ideas, and other materials and matters related to Veko Media are protected under applicable copyrights. 1) Veko Media has the right to cancel the order and in most cases issue a refund in the following scenarios: a) Customer does not provide sufficient documentation regarding the information for the website. b) Customer demands unreasonable revision of the original order processed. c) Veko Media financial officers suspect payment to be fraud. Veko Media has a no-refund policy, unless otherwise noted, and at our discretion. Veko Media retains the right to deny service. Disputes filed on PayPal or chargebacks with your card issuer will be reported to the proper authorities as fraud. All payments are final unless otherwise noted by Veko Media. A 50% down payment is required in advance for all Veko Media services. If, within 1 (one) week of the first transaction, you are unsatisfied with the progression of your website, we will refund you your money back (excluding taxes), at our discretion. 2) Veko Media reserves the right to set forth a non-refundable policy. Once the customer has submitted the order, our work begins. At no time after the funds have been submitted can a customer request a refund and have it be processed. All refunds are at our (Veko Media's) discretion. 3) Veko Media does not guarantee to complete website delivery within timeframe specified by any staff or through the website information. As production errors may occur due to customer’s activities, financial issues, suspicious actions, and so forth. 4) Veko Media has the right to request authentication of the cardholder if Veko Media financial officers suspect payment to be fraudulent. 5) Once the customer receives the product, the order is deemed successful and complete. No further services are required by Veko Media; if the customer wishes to ask for further assistance or request custom additions, Veko Media reserves the right to assess a fee accordingly. Veko Media Terms & Conditions Veko Media owns and operates this website as a subsidiary business to custom online/print media design and development. By using and purchasing from this website you agree to comply and agree with the following terms and conditions. Please make certain to read this and other documents regarding our policies on this website. Products, graphics, design, content, identity, creative development ideas, and other materials and matters related to Veko Media are protected under applicable copyrights. Copying, publication of whole or part of materials and matters of Veko Media (all pages and products), and the redistribution are strictly prohibited. This agreement commences on the date of application and continues until terminated in accordance with the provisions of this agreement. In this agreement "Client Data" means all information, data, text, logos, images, audio, movie clips and/or content that forms part of the client's web sites or emails. 1) Application and Variation of these Terms These terms and conditions are the terms on which we provide the Service to you. These terms constitute the agreement in its entirety and supersede prior agreements. We may modify these terms as applying to any agreement, the pricing structure for any Service or the terms of the operation by general notice on a page of the Internet referred to on our home page at www.Veko Media.com, and any use after that publication will constitute an acceptance of that modification. 2) Service a) We will advise you of any changes affecting your site via email or by notice on our site at www.vekomedia.com b) Scheduled Maintenance must be performed to servers from time to time. We will attempt to perform all scheduled maintenance at times which will affect the least amount of customers. c) Unscheduled maintenance may need to be performed. If unscheduled maintenance requires the Service to be off-line for more than 30 minutes, we will post details of the event after the maintenance has been completed. 3) Warranties and Liabilities a) We do not warrant that: i. the Services provided under this agreement will be uninterrupted or error free; or ii. the Services will meet your requirements or iii. the Services will be free from external intruders (hackers) or other persons having unauthorised access to our Services or systems. b) Except as expressly provided to the contrary in this agreement, all warranties whether express, implied, statutory or otherwise, relating in any way to the subject matter of this agreement, are excluded. Where any statute implies in this agreement any term, and that statute avoids or prohibits provisions in a contract excluding or modifying the application of or liability under such a term, then the term will be taken to be included in this agreement. However, our liability for any breach of the term will, if permitted by that statute be limited, at our option, to the resupply of the Services again; or payment of the cost of having the Services supplied again. c) Except under clause 4.a, we will not be liable to you for: i. any loss or damage in respect of the provision or use of the Services, ii. any costs, claims, loss or damage of any kind resulting from your fraudulent, negligent or otherwise unlawful behaviour, iii. any costs, claims, loss or damage arising from any information, Client Data, other data or material provided to us by you or on your behalf. d) You warrant that: i. at the time of entering into this agreement you are not relying on any representation made by us which has not been stated expressly in this agreement, or on any descriptions or specifications contained in any other document, including any catalogues or publicity material which we have produced; ii. you will conduct such tests and computer virus scanning as may be necessary to ensure that Client Data uploaded by you onto or downloaded by you from the server does not contain any computer virus and will not, in any way, corrupt the data or systems of any person; iii. you will keep secure any passwords used to upload Client Data to the Server and iv. you hold and will continue to hold the copyright in the Client Data or that you are licensed and will continue to be licensed to use the Client Data. e) You accept responsibility for all Client Data, information and material you issue over any Service, and indemnify us and hold us harmless against any liability in relation thereto. In particular you undertake that you shall not publish or issue any Client Data or information which is illegal or defamatory. You also acknowledge that we do not vet or approve any Client Data, information or material available through the Service and that we do not accept any liability. You access and use such Client Data, information and material at your own risk. f) You agree to abide by our Acceptable Use Policy. g) You are solely responsible for dealing with persons who access the Client Data, and must not refer complaints or inquiries in relation to such data to us. h) Except as provided in clause 4.b, we are not liable to you or any other person for:- i. any cost, loss or liability (including loss of profit or other consequential damage) arising from our supply or failure or delay in supplying the Service; ii. the content, context or confidentiality of any communications made using the Service, iii. loss or damage caused by third party software applications forming part of the Service. i) You indemnify us against all costs, expenses, loss or liability that we may suffer (directly or indirectly) resulting from: i. your breach of these terms, ii. your use or misuse of the Service and iii. the use or misuse of the Service by any person using your account, iv. publication of defamatory, offensive or otherwise unlawful material on any web site forming part of your Service. If you do not agree with the terms put forth in this document you have no right to obtain information from or otherwise use this website. Failure to use this website in accordance with the following terms of use may subject you to severe civil and criminal penalties. Code (markup): Does anyone know if it's possible that I could lose this money? Paypal claimed they'd "absorb any cost". What does that mean? Thanks in advance guys
It means Paypal will not charge you any fee for having to deal with the credit card issuer. You have to submit to Paypal all the details/documents and the buyer's credit card issuer will give a decision. Paypal is no longer involved in making that decision and they will only forward all necessary information to the credit card issuer.
Yes, you could still lose the money. Paypal pays the bank's chargeback fee which is usually about $15. If the bank rules in the favor of the customer, then they will still take the money from you. The problem with any digital TOS is that there is no proof that the customer saw it unless you have a signed hard copy. Even then, banks are reluctant to rule in favor of merchants, because they make all of their money from the card holders and not the businesses who accept them. It's still completely possible that you can win this, it's just rare for any sort of digital merchandise, especially since it hasn't been delivered yet.
i am 100% sure you will lose the money because credit card companies take the money from paypal by force... and there is nothing paypal can do about it.... and you will have to pay all the chargeback fees... the minimum chargeback fees starts from $15 but it can be more if the amount is bigger.... so chargeback is the most paniful thing in the online world... i have face this problem last year and 5 chargeback made from me on the same day.... and i submit proof but still i lost the money and paypal take the chargeback fees from me.. so i know how painful it is....
Wow. Sweet, so I'm screwed out of $450 that I dont have right now. Awesome. Why do people even use Paypal if things like this can happen?
this is why paypal sucks... they let buyers get away with scams and fraud all the time. this has happened to me a few times. sorry to hear
Check this out (Quoted from Paypal): I already had a dispute with this buyer and won. Then, a month later, he filed a chargeback. So, according to paypal, they'll "protect me 100% against any future claim, chargeback or bank reversal the buyer may file for that transaction", right? If this is true, I'm covered, right? Input?
Hi, Source: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/securitycenter/sell/ChargebackFAQ-outside I had the exact same problem like you before. I kept my money when the guy filed a chargeback with his bank because I resolved the claim earlier through paypal. But knowing paypal, dont get your hopes up.
It depends on the credit card company some will get the funds back come what may while others will not it used to be unheard of but seems to have increased in recent years.
Is this common practice on dp to not allow refunds? The designers I know give refunds but they make the person requesting one first sign an agreement not to use their designs if they're going to get they're money back.
I won. I called up a Paypal representative and spoke with her for about 20 minutes about the issue, which could have helped, and I supplied as much evidence as I could. I posted chat logs, screenshots, the website I sent him, proof of domain ownership (whois), etc. Gah, talk about stress. Methinks I should use moneybookers....