Paying someone to help my dad out with religion

The biggest PROOF that God exist is ....... LIFE

 

I used to reason like that also when I came to know the errors in the Bible. It is a well known thing to atheists called Pascal's Wager, but it has many flaws. It lasted about a month. It seems you may be in that phase, also. Here is my current philosophy on that matter:

I am searching for the truth. That is my sole intention and will always be my intention, up until I die. About everything I see fit. That's what's great about the internet. You can see both sides of the argument and pick one. There are many errors and contradictions in the Bible. I realize a lot of so called contradictions can be explained away by apologists, but there are still some left. You will also see that the Bible is not scientifically sound, and it seems to have borrowed a lot of things handed down from the very earliest of religions. In my mind, there is no way the Bible can be true, because I have researched it myself and came to that conclusion. I welcome debate with everyone who thinks they have the answer, and I am truly curious to see how they would reason on that matter or if it even makes sense. I have debated with a few open minded religious people and have won all of the ones that aren't on-going. Winning a debate only strengthens my resolves. If I ever lost a debate on the basics of the Bible, I would become a believer again. That is all that is needed. One loss.

I think subconsciously, since growing up religious, my brain is like a steering wheel of a car that needs an alignment. Always pulling to the left or the right. My brain is always pulling to the religious side of me, because I want to feel that is right, subconsciously. Although consciously my life is happy, and I look forward to a good life ahead of me, and couldn't be more content. I am even happier than when I believed, a lot of pressure of my shoulders. But I still want to debate with anyone about religion, because I feel that need. To help people think and reason for themselves and help them when I didn't have any help. And also to prove to myself that this is the right course. I don't want to miss anything. I am kind of a perfectionist in certain things, and I want to make sure I haven't missed anything, you know? So I am certainly open minded if there is a way to explain everything that doesn't make sense in the Bible, which just doesn't seem possible, you know?

So knowing that about me, I am trying to tell you that I am a sincere individual who is seeking the truth. I am sure you are, too. Now if you were a kind a loving God, would you send me to hell because I firmly believed what I was doing was the right thing? Searching for the truth... hell for you! Doing what you think is right... hell for you! Why would I believe in a hateful God like that anyway? Why would a God fill his book with errors and contradictions anyway? That sure is some God.

If there was a loving God who has a plan for an afterlife for humans, then I am sure I will be there and my questions will be answered accordingly. So, actually, it is a win/win for me. It is a better win/win for me than those who "believe", because I get to do whatever I want and still get an afterlife, whereas you have to go to church every sunday and be prude and all the other baggage that comes with religion. Kind of like the parable Jesus related. About a farm hand that worked for 5 hours or so because that was the time slot the farmer had available and the farm hand that worked 10 hours or so both getting the SAME amount of pay. Why? Because that's fair. Just like it was out of the farm hand that worked 5 hour's control, it is out of atheists control that we search and yearn for the truth. "God" made us that way, did he not? Out of our control. So a loving God would give us the same benefits as those who "believe". Win/win, wouldn't you say? (Let us not forget that I am saying this on the belief that the Bible is not inspired of God, sincerely. And this is a hypothetical. I am not blatantly disregarding Jesus or God, even though I know he real (which I don't think he is).)

Why would a God ask us only to believe as some religions or religious people teach, anyway? "The only thing you need to do is believe!" Why? What is the reasoning behind that? What is the difference to God between a believer who murders to a non-believer that murders people? Or between a believer that donates 50% of their income to charity as opposed to a non-believer that does that same? Why would there be any difference? It doesn't make sense.

Here is another thing. Knowing what I know about the Bible. Knowing what I know about the Quran. Knowing that there are errors and contradictions in both of these books or at the very least just doesn't have any evidence of inspiration to back it up... any so called holy book for that matter, knowing this... does not this put all of these books on LEVEL playing grounds? There are no different to each other in this context. If there is a holy book that says flying pigs created the earth and we are under the control of invisible dragons, it would be on level playing field as the Bible. Why? Because there is no evidence to back that up. So why not believe that? Why not believe the Quran? Why pick whatever you are choosing to pick? It would be a completely random pick. You might as well blind fold yourself, spin in circles, and point. You would come up with the same thing contextually. What makes your book so different? Nothing. (again, contextually) The same can be said for religion. What makes your religion so different? They are all the same contextually. Context being that they all believe in a holy book that has no evidence of it's inspiration.

If Christianity didn't exist and you were brought up a Muslim, you would believe in Allah as God instead of Christ under that reasoning, right?

Point made.

There is no need to look forward to something after death.... That would be like looking forward to death, which I don't think is natural (but what is natural? who knows). When you die, it will be quick (I mean that moment when you actually die, not leading up to it), there is no in-between living and dead, lol. So there will be no time to THINK about what is going to happen at death. Because most likely you won't know you are going to die unless you actually do. I mean, I know you can be in a lot of pain or "feel" you are going to die, but you don't actually KNOW. Even in front of a firing squad, the bullet could miss, or whatever. (seen that in a movie once)

I have heard that you are conscious seconds after a decapitations, but you will barely have time to process that your head is off your body, much less that you are going to be dead in a few seconds and where you will go, lol.

So what I am trying to say is that you could say hope for the future, but we always will have hope for the future right up until we are dead and unconscious probably. Belief in God helps some through concentration camps and the such, but you could have hope that you will make it out of the situation instead... it would be the same thing. Think about a situation that you KNOW 100% is futile? Your fate is inevitable. I don't think there are any....

Framed and imprisoned for life even though you are innocent? In the case that whoever framed you is really powerful and there is no chance you will be released, the economy could fail and prisoners released, a bomb could hit the prison or something, who knows. Prison break anyone? lol Aliens? Come on, there is always hope! Why is there a need for an afterlife?

Regardless, even if there is a need, why does it have to be heaven or hell? It could be reincarnation, or inception, a host of other things. Aliens?

Why believe in something with no evidence? You know? Why THAT. Why not *anything* else?

My look on the afterlife is that we really don't know. Einstein himself wouldn't know. Know one knows and no one can say they know except say that, "there is no evidence of an afterlife," but why would there be any? It does not make sense, so the final consensus is that we. don't. know.

Final answer.

 

You're talking about the Bible like it would be a rule book . There are only 11 rules in there the rest is history , advices and OFC the Apocalypse (the book that has been misinterpreted so many times it's not even funny to talk about it)

Looks like you're just venting out the pressure that your father's sect placed on you and nothing more . If you where half as smart as you're trying to sound you would have long figured out how to brain wash your dad or at least you would have had the intelligence of posting the thread in some appropriate forums .

 

Aha, I am more intelligent, as I have posted to many different forums other than this one, much more appropriate. =D The JWs teach the Bible as a rulebook, and that is what my Dad believes, so that is what matters.

Paul has a bunch of rules in his books, also.

Why are you saying brainwash? I only want to steer him in the right direction. He can do what he wants from there.

 

lol, I see zero connection between life and the existence of a deity, consider evolution bud

 

I see life is the diety, spread through evolution.

 

I use to believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, an ark that could fit in hundreds of thousand of species, all those magical stories, and who needs psychiatric help.

 

Do you believe in ghost?

 

I've been looking at the anti-God arguments here and on a side note they seems to be made by people that don't even have the slightest understanding of the basics of Newtonian physics.

if you don't even have the most basic understanding of how science works, how can you claim how God does or does not work?

Can any of you anti-God people even explain what fire is? Anyone? Anyone? I don't mean a cut-and-paste explanation, I mean convince me that you understand fire. Anyone?

 

Well i'm a God person, so albeit might not count for your question but if you think explaining what fire is means that there's no God you're crazy!

 

You're crazy if you think that's what I mean. I'm not even sure what YOU mean.

 

I mean fire is not God nor proof of God's existence once explained, which is what your post is saying, in effect. God created fire, same as anything else he wanted but explaining fire does not explain God.

 

Bushie, my point is that, for the atheists that want someone to explain how God exists - these atheists can't even explain how fire works, something we all know exists.

How can they be satisfied on understanding something as complex and controversial as the existence of God, when they can't even understand something as simple and commonplace as fire?

 

Nice point Corwin What there also saying .... is that we came from apes? lol or big bang theory... wow... Like you said they probably couldn't understand something as simple as that...(fire) Scientist would say fire is made from oxygen and combustion ( something combustible) BUT what made the oxygen? what made the trees? what made the animals???? are animals part of evolution too?????? There are so many things that cannot be answered by scientist. Creationists and Intelligent Design scientists believe animals were created as kinds......(KINDS COME ON really????), and that variations within those kinds have occurred over time by adaptation and by manipulation, such as the genetic selection of traits by breeders of pets and livestock. Evolutionary scientists usually believe complex animals evolved from simpler life forms. They do not generally explain how the simple life forms, (which are also animals) came to be. So we have the evolution part ... but were did they start.......It's like a read this same story over and over again Atheist, scientist, non believers can definitely give a good explanation of the middle of the story, but can never explain the beginning. Quite frankly i would rather believe and be saved by our creator....... than not believe and be condemned to eternal fire. Simple terms would be .. If you don't believe and God doesn't exist, then you live life die and that's it. If you do believe then you live life and have eternal life through Christ. If YOU DONT BELIEVE, AND GOD IS REAL THEN ITS NOT GOING TO LOOK GOOD FOR YOU :-( i'D TAKE MY CHANCES IN BELIEVING

 

We would not believe in fire if there were no evidence of it's existence, whether it is real or not. Agnostic Atheism (as most atheists are) does not assert there is no god PERIOD, we only assert a lack of belief in God(s) mainly because there is no evidence of such. We really don't know, nor can we guess. Of course, you should know that there is no way to prove or disprove god(s).

 

I TYPED OUT SUCH A LONG-ASS RESPONSE TO THAT POINT AND YOU JUST SKIPPED OVER IT LIKE NOTHING????????? I can't BELIEVE you, dude? Maybe you are just too young to understand? I would certainly NOT hold that against you if you were just too young to understand this and are just believing what your parents tell you. That is perfectly understandable. Read this my above post when you are older and you can understand.

But when you are older, it is really simple. Is God would PUNISH someone for GENUINELY searching for the TRUTH, than that IS NOT a LOVING God. You cannot believe in a loving God and believe that he will punish people who see no evidence for God, but have genuinely searched for the truth.

The thing is... there is no evidence that Christ is God. Even those who believe in the Bible may think Christ is only God's son and not God himself (Trinity). There is no evidence for either. So if you want to believe in God, then FINE, but it is ILLOGICAL to believe in a book that has no evidence that it is inspired of God. What if you were born in another country as a Muslim? You would believe in the Quran as God's word, which again, has no evidence for inspiration. The Bible and the Quran are NOT God's word. We know this. What we don't know is if a deity is a real thing. So don't say Christ, as Christ isn't a God that wants himself known, okay?

The theory of evolution revolves around something incredibly simple becoming more and more complex. Whereas the theory of a deity revolves around something incredibly complex creating simpler things.

If you take any living thing, the theory of evolution says that there was something less complex that it came from. So any animal came from something less complex, and so on, until we come to just the foundation particles... which got created by the big bang, if you believe in that theory (if I have this correct). The big bang theory, however, is a separate theory than the theory of evolution. There are those that believe in evolution, but NOT the big bang. There are those that believe a deity created evolution.

Why are you laughing that we came from apes? We came from a species of apes, yes. It's not something to laugh about, it really isn't that hard to imagine....

Whether you believe in the deity theory or the big bang theory, you are still believing something came from nothing. You could believe in both. If you go back far enough, the point is that something did come from nothing. No one can explain that.

 

Wrong. Very wrong.

If by "evidence" you mean you can see and feel it, you are missing the point.

Can you see and feel fire? Yet you cannot explain it. Can you scientifically prove the existence of fire to someone who has never seen fire?

Is there evidence of atoms? Evidence that electrons rotate around a nucleus of protons and neutrons? You cannot see any of these things, yet is there evidence that the atom exists and that this is how it is constructed?

A scientific proof means you can EXPLAIN it. Pointing at it and saying "see, there it is" is NOT a scientific proof. Science is filled with examples of things that seem obvious and yet do not exist as you think.

Please keep in mind that a) I am a scientist, and b) I believe in evolution, and c) I believe in the concept of a God and d) I believe that science and God are linked in such a powerful way that you cannot break the laws of physics without disproving God.

To wit, I believe that the laws of physics are one proof that God exists.

I disagree with the concept of a deity - that is, I don't agree with people that believe in a deity that makes arbitrary decisions on a whim much like a human would and would violate the laws of science on a whim. Such people selfishly project their own personal concept of authority on their concept of a deity - a God that cheats. I don't believe in a God that would violate the laws of physics.

I also disagree with people that insist that no proof exists of God's existence, because such people have an inexact definition of the word "proof" and such people usually got a "C" in High School science classes. People who do not understand science should not set terms as to what constitutes a scientific proof.

Science makes use of exact, objective universally accepted terms. You cannot substitute your own subjective definitions. You cannot claim that your definition of "proof" really means "good enough for you".

Don't demand proofs with science when you do not understand the LANGUAGE of science.

 

Im sorry you feel that way, unfortunately the bottom line is you cannot explain the beginning of life."something came from nothing. No one can explain that" And you didn't answer my? Do you believe in ghost? And you also stated that him being a loving God why would he punish you for looking for the truth. That starts getting into the rapture...... all non believers AND some believers will be left behind to face diseases, famons, earthquakes etc. That will be a second chance to believe in him....So being a cruel God ....I doubt it. The most common thing people do when thinking about God is blame him. But people fail to realize is that theres another player on the playing field and his name is satan. Nobody blames him......

 

For believers:

Explain the beginning of the life of G-d. Certainly, there has to be a beginning?


>> Sorry, just wanted to post this video somewhere...

[video=youtube;1C0HI_LyAho]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C0HI_LyAho[/video]

 

Quite simple actually , in order for something to have a begging you need to have time . The spacetime continuum didn't existed before the Big Bang as stated by the Hartle–Hawking theory ergo the Creator of space time continuum transcends time . If I was to speculate on His state as from a temporal loop point of view I'd say that it's something similar to how omnipresence is explained via Schroedinger's cat quantum paradox .