Pat Robertson Blames Haiti Earthquake on "Pact With the Devil"

The people of Haiti hardly need to turn to God when they are already there. 80% of the people are Catholic. Pat's never been a spokesmen for Christians by and large, however listening to his statements in the context in which he said them, he mentioned a fact with regard to this "pact" and labeled it a "true story", and never really said, that the Devil is what is causing their problems. He just said they are cursed. He's right in that aspect. They've been cursed with poverty, a crappy government, and now this disaster.

To suggest that their pact with the devil (which shows you the lengths some will go to be free of the French) is responsible for this, or that God is somehow punishing them? Well that's just ridiculous. I'm really not certain if that's what he's implying or not. Once again, very few follow the man and even fewer regard him as a true Christian.

 

What in the heck does that have to do with anything I said?

 

I like Joel Osteen and Eddie Long. They don't teach having an unhealthy dependence upon the church. I've always been a fan of the belief that "God helps those that help themselves" and Joel and Eddie both do that.

I don't agree with much of what Pat Robertson says, although I admit that I very rarely watch him. However, I understand where he is coming from. In my opinion, I think he needs to see MEANING in everything.

"Man's great concern is not to gain pleasure or avoid pain, but rather to see a meaning in his life. That is why man is even ready to suffer, on the condition that his suffering has meaning"
- Victor Frannkl, psychoanalyst

Pat Robertson needed to see the devastation on Haiti as meaning they deserved retribution. If I were to speak to Pat personally, I'd suggest to him that, while God is destined to win the war, sometimes the devil wins the battles.

About 15 years ago, I got a phone call and was told that I lost a close childhood friend in an empty, senseless, fatal accident. He was a police officer and a great one - he was well-respected and made a real difference in the community. I completely lost it, because Catholicism had hammered into me that "everything happens for a reason" and I couldn't fathom how such a good person could die so cruelly. It was only after I told myself "O.K., this was a victory for evil" that I was able to put myself together. Only after I was able to assign meaning to his death, was I able to begin to overcome my grief and prepare myself for life without my best friend.

MEANING!

 

There are so many elements that control the outcome of any situation that is impossible for any human to control the outcome because of lack of knowledge and power. Therefore the outcomes that are out of our control is some time pleasant and some times terrible for us. There is no God or devil who control these outcomes, the simple truth is that shit happens.

 

I agree with RobJones. Personnally money, power, etc. twists religeon IMHO. Over a number of times Robertson has made these totally wierd comments about some tragedy. He is a whacko IMHO.

Corwin: Your comments about your friend's death and your own reaction to it reminds me of my own experience of something like that.

Abt a decade ago in a 3 month period my father, a close cousin, an aunt, and my best friend all died. The cousin died first. He had been ill for a while. He was my dad's first cousin and more or less the patriarch of his family in the DC region where I lived. I had visited him a bit before he died.

After he died in the hospital I was at his house with family and close friends. That day my parents called and were preparing to come to the funeral and I was arranging to pick them up and drive them around. That night my dad had a stroke.

I drove to the NYC metro area the next day. He was in a coma, came out of a coma and was consciense for a few days and lapsed back to a coma. He was actually speaking to one of my cousins as he lapsed back into a coma.

After some time we removed life support. One night I awoke about 2-3 in the morning. I drove to the hospital. I watched his last breaths.

It was excruciating.

I returned to DC. On the day I returned my best friend called to invite me over. He never got the message about my father turning ill. Abt 10 days later he had a burst aorta. I visited him in the hospital every other day. I was very close w/ his parents and brothers for many years; less close w/ his wife. Over 3 weeks I did some stuff on behalf of the family; being a phone contact and doing other things while they were in the hospital every day.

During that period I was getting nightmares constantly, seeing my father gasping for breath before he passed. It was miserable.

On the day before he passed his wife asked if I would do "sports stuff" w/ their young son...and I agreed.

While my friend was in the hospital one amazing thing happened. His mom is one of the most spiritual people I've ever met. An incredible woman.

However she did this...the staff at the hospital broke into tears when my friend passed. They saw death all the time. They were steeled to it. But her amazing spirit moved them in a way that never occurred.

After a memorial service for my friend I was in the line to console the family. I was behind some guy I didn't know. As he got to my friend's mom...he reached to hug her and said something like..."I know what this is like. I lost a child. She gave this guy a hug to strengthen him...and said something like..."Yes, I've lost 2 sons. Its a terrible loss"

I'm not conveying it well. She conveyed strength to this guy. It was amazing. About 8 yrs earlier her eldest son died....and she was the tower of strength for his family and friends at that funeral.



I was emotionally spent. In the next month I visited my aunt on the West Coast shortly before she died of cancer. Horrid.

The multiple deaths just tore me apart. Too many in too short a time. People too close to me. It was devastating.

I prayed. It didn't do much for me. I've had lots of religeous training. I'm not deeply religeous in a traditional way. I'm more spiritual I suppose.

Trying to be spiritual every day helped me a lot. For a period I spoke every day about the pain. I think that helped. I got sick of hearing myself feel so crappy and in so much pity.

More powerful was that I attended every game, every practise, every sporting event for my friend's son. It was good for the son, good for his mom, it was good for me.

Time is also an incredible healing element. Life goes on.

As I write this, it makes me think fondly of my friend. We were very close for a long time and did many things together. One of the things we did was play and compete in sports. Lord, how we battered one another. Makes me smile now. OTOH I doubt if a day goes by even a decade later when at least a thought hits me about my father. They are all fond.

Getting back to Pat Robertson....I totally agree with RobJones.

That guy, Robertson, has made too many stupid comments of this ilk too many times over too many years. The guy should shut up and do service for some people.

It would be a big improvement in his religeosity IMHO.

 

gworld, I couldn't hold it together when I believed what you wrote above. It was only after I rediscovered Christianity and my spirituality was I able to overcome my grief. I think that speaks to the power of the Christian beliefs. What YOU believe, gworld, seems too lonely for me.


Earl, powerful stuff. I read and re-read what you wrote quite a few times. Thank you for sharing.

Earl, you wrote "Trying to be spiritual every day helped me a lot." Can you explain how it helped you? Did being spiritual provide a higher meaning, or was it just something to focus on? I'm not prodding you into any direction, I just want to know how being spiritual helped.

 

Corwin, Would you mind if I answered the question that you asked Earl, as though it were asked of me?

 

I know that your belief helps you. It is like the comfort blanket of my cousin 2 years old son. The difference is some people when they grow up, leave their comfort blanket and teddy bear behind while others hang to it for the rest of life in the form of religion.

 

Pat Robertson is a wretched excuse for a human being. I remember very well when he said that the outbreak of AIDs occurred because was trying to punish homosexuals. He should not be given any media attention whatsover. He's disgusting and calls himself a Christian...

 

You forget though that there are Baptists that don;t feel that Catholics are true Christians. I do a lot of volunteering here in Charlotte with a number of churches and there are those churches that I will not deal with any longer because they took exception to my being Catholic.

 

Keep in mind there are Baptists and then there are Southern Baptists. The later is like a Islamonutjob without the urge to commit suicide.

 

I thought this was a funny joke...

 

I'd say that everytimes something tragic and out of course with our natural, pleasant lives, it may very well be God stepping in and striking our hand. He tells us to do good but we don't. It's our human nature. It's all on how you perceive it.

If you want to be punished because you feel guilty, then you're probably punishing yourself more than you deserve. If you want to come away from poverty, death and despair - like Haiti I'm sure does, you aught to be able to do that too.

Angels and Demons is a book by Dan Brown - I'm not really into the whole "duel sided religious view" as if you've read the Bible, you'll have seen that God turns on his people ALL the time for a long time and really puts them through Hell. Is the suffering of the Haitians worse? I don't know - it's sunny in Philadelphia. All I know is that my belief has kept me from seeing tragedy like that, so I'll remain humble and observant of the Lord and his rules.

 

He sure does lead by example then, by killing people.

The masochistic religious view prolongs human suffering by believing in such nonsense. These are all entertaining ideas, that some invisible sky god is putting us through hell for his own twisted gratification - but to act, or fail to act, on the basis of these ideas is what has kept human misery constant.

If you want to neglect reality and responsibility then I recommend you look into some cult or religion that has an unscientific explanation for the workings of the world. But if you want to step up and make some positive changes to the conditions we face, you're better off just accepting reality for what it is, that's always the first step.

 

Corwin:

I've been thinking abt your question.

In retrospect, I was feeling so low. The day before the first of those 4 people died, I had finished an emotionally draining experience w/my ex wife. Then that sequence started.

I was very low. I think my mind kept reverting to woe is me. I was feeling totally sorry for myself. I was unnable to function in a lot of areas. I guess I was always reverting to "why bother". I was pretty useless for myself and others and was always miserable.

Basically I started asking for help a lot. I'm not an "ask for help" kind of person. I had just started to do that a bit earlier...but then dove into that type of mindset. Frankly that was a period when I needed help...basically lots of emotional help.

The spiritual things that I did, and the path I followed...which I neither reccomend or disavow...I'm not one to proseletize....got me out of what might have been the lowest emotional period of my life.

I'm not going to say it gave me a "higher meaning" in direct answer to your question. That is me. I was "hoping" to get a higher meaning...it just didn't happen to me.

The processes I took pulled me up out of the misery. One of the things had to do with helping/playing sports/showing up for my late friend's son. That got me out of my head....I slowly...and it was slow...stopped reverting to a sense of misery every day.

The other steps were directly efforts at being spiritual. They also worked to get me out of that feeling of misery, lack of worth, etc.

Did I take all those steps "to just focus on something" as you asked?

No...I took the steps and actions to feel better. I didn't know where it was going to take me, how it would work,etc.

Ultimately the deep depression, worthlessness, etc. all faded. I'd say that it receded in bits. I pretty much went from feeling miserable 24/7 to 20 hrs/day to 12/hrs/day. etc. The recovery took time.

Hope that answers your questions.

Meanwhile I still think Pat Robertson should shut his mouth. He should get out of TV and start helping people on a small very direct level.

 

Getting out of your head is important. It's the exact opposite of what I've done the last 4 years, and it's definitely not instinctual when you're in the gutter.

I think the solution to mental suffering is through redirecting our natural self-focus. I think it's always been a tendency throughout history to avoid the self-focus in order to alleviate suffering, which is basically what religion has served as. The problem with religion is that it is based on fantasy and becomes dangerous because of it. It doesn't take religion to redirect a focus on yourself, it's just the popular remains of what was used in the past when we were afraid to face each other.

 

Pat Robertson is obviously a very confused individual and I don't think he's a person who should be giving other people help when he needs help himself.

I think what might benefit him is a little mob style "perspective."

 

Nate:

I'm neither for or against religeon for other people.

OTOne H it has been an enormous help to many people.

OTOH it has been the cause of extraordinary death and killing.

OT Pat Robertson and televangelist side it basically looks like a sidelight for money, fame, and power.

I personally turn away from extremists from any religeon. Those that try and shove it down other's throats, and expressly their version of it have historically caused endless and enormous problems, wars, deaths, and today of course suicide bombers to say the least.

Meanwhile, my own experience is that when extremists within my own religeon try and shove their version down my throat I hate it and rebell. Not for me.

 

~ God gave us a perfect Garden and for our transgressions then gave us Earth - The Garden we live in has everything including paradise death and destruction which are all present in Haiti including the tectonic plates that caused the devastation as perceived and how people react within the Garden is its purpose and nothing is certain but that the Garden will continue its own way as will the people that survive within it search for the answers.

 

Breeze, what are you smoking? Can you give us some, so we can also see the garden and all the rainbows?