Pakistan's Christians Warned to 'Convert' or Face Eviction...

They had got holes???

j/k

 

Sura 9:5 abrogates this. Actually, quite a few verses abrogate this. In the early days, mohammad was particularly gracious with scripture in his attempt to voluntarily win over converts to his new religion. Over the course of 23 years, he contradicted himself and changed his mind about things many, many times.

Once can better understand the acknowledged verses of abrogation here:

http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Silas/abrogation.htm

You did know this, right bullbla? I can't imagine you wouldn't know this

 

Honestly I won't agree with you. I will not write anything from Quran all I would say is that Islam never teaches anyone to kill a Non-Muslim, rape their women, bomb their cities, blast their buildings but peace is what Islam preaches. I know you will not agree with me and will try to proof that I'm wrong but I won't care about that as what I'm posting is correct and I strongly believe and act on that.

People who are killing innocent people, suicide attacks, blasting building don't know what Islam teaches and how they should spend their lives. They are just Some sick bastards and must be punished. I never think that this whole world should accept Islam blah blah blah as every one has rights and will to live their lives according to. It is their own choice so no one should be forced.
Islam never asks to force a person to leave his/her religion unless he/she wishes to (Without being forced).

I call those suicders and killers of innconcet people, SICK MF bastards.

 

Quran: [17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them

Well those were “your” philosophy about Muhammad (pbuh) based on false abrogation theory, which is never believed by Muslims. To fully know about it, read below

http://www.submission.org/abrogation.html

However, This is the first time I love talking to someone over here. Before every one just used hypothetical statement, but now this person comes up with proofs. I request everyone to read this post till end. Trust me you will learn a lot (if you really want to).

okay, let me tell you all, these are the verses of Quran that most of the non-Muslim quote. how they do, let me explain with an example:

if there is a statement that:

“Any Policeman around White house in USA, is allowed to kill anyone……..who tries to harm President Bush”

Every sensible person will agree with this statement and will say its legal and policeman should do that. But if I just take few words from that sentence and quote it like:

“Policeman in USA, is allowed to kill anyone”

What will you say then? Is it fair to quote like this???? now how badly the meaning of the whole sentence is changed and at this instant every one will hate that policeman.

Similarly this is the situation where non-Muslim adversary, callously picking such wrong and out of context verses of holly Quran and wounding Islam. Therefore every sensible and serious person must read the scripture himself rather than listening from here and there. I am sending you the whole verses of which you have taken only that part which could help you to spread hate against Muslims.

now read all of the verses in context and full verses.

[9:3] A proclamation is herein issued from GOD and His messenger to all the people on the great day of pilgrimage, that GOD has disowned the idol worshipers, and so did His messenger. Thus, if you repent, it would be better for you. But if you turn away, then know that you can never escape from GOD. Promise those who disbelieve a painful retribution.

[9:4] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.

[9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[9:6] If one of the idol worshipers sought safe passage with you, you shall grant him safe passage, so that he can hear the word of GOD, then send him back to his place of security. That is because they are people who do not know.

read the context in which this verse was reveled.

[9:27] Ultimately, GOD redeems whomever He wills. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[9:28] O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.
http://www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/sura9.html

[47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste
http://www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/sura47.html

To know exact about this verse, again you need to know the context. Just check out the glory of Quran, but why non-Muslim skip these verses and pick only one of their purpose .i.e. to propagate hate for Muslims.

[8:38] Tell those who disbelieved: if they stop, all their past will be forgiven. But if they return, they will incur the same fate as their previous counterparts.

[8:39] You shall fight them to ward off oppression, and to practice your religion devoted to GOD alone. If they refrain from aggression, then GOD is fully Seer of everything they do.

[8:40] If they turn away, then you should know that GOD is your Lord and Master; the best Lord and Master, the best supporter.
http://www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/sura8.html

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient

http://www.submission.org/suras/sura2.htm

this last verse is the answer of your allegation. I request all of you to not listen anyone what they say but go back to your own holly scripture and just read that. If you don’t understand the translation, consult some good scholar to clear you misconceptions rather than keep on hating your human fellows merely on the difference of views. Put your efforts to find / search knowledge about anything you want. Think deep, but still if you fail to understand things (its normal) do not at least abuse any one. Don’t spread hate against them because no religion, no social system allows such third class practices. Live and let others live in peace (for which you often claim). And those who Deliberately spread hate against any religion, I find them not human, but worst than animals….

 

The verses are not "out of context." In fact, their context is so clear, even a dirty kafir can understand them.

The verse of compulsion is abrogated by Sura 9, which was one of the last books invented by mohammad. It makes clear what a muslim's mission is and who the enemy is. Simply requoting the verse does not make it any less abrogated.

Also, quoting the quran with inserted words, such as (If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve) is misleading. Remember, we are not your ordinary infidel here. Unsourced quotes that contradict sourced quotes are easily verified. It's usually at this point that someone in your current position will attempt to use the "translation card." Of course, I have a wonderful argument for that

 

You are quite worse than the ordinary infidel, you have no understanding whatsoever

Here is a classical manual of Jihad ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/Page49.html

This is what the Muslims believe, not what you supposedly understand from the Quran

 

No offense plz talk with wisdom
See the topic "Bad action by one Pakistani"
We should condem that kind of actions (even if u read whole article u'll find they are already protected by police) but also remember that Pakistans Papulation is more then 1.7 Billion.
Can one man is enough to represent whole Country?
if your answer is Yes then you should agree on this
What is your reply for sickest action is arm foces in Iraq (Gowanta Mobay, Abu Gareeb Jail)
some human action or are hundred of sickest people are not enought to represent westren world ??????????????????????????
Remember the 6 million jews killing by Hitlar? was he representing whole christianity or just personal action?????????????????
You are talking about 1400 years ago & discussing very foolish & wrong concepts.
Why no talk about "Colored People" which is not hidden. What we should say about that? do we call whole usa a crap??????
its fact that westren media always eager to capture one bad event in Muslims world even though they have not enough time for their own people
for example their was one rape case in Pakistan "Mai Muktaraan"
Whole westren world become very kind hearted (its good) & start talking about but i m still thinking what about NY rape cases, every min one rap case in capital of usa but no news, oppsssssssss westren media dont have time for that might be its there daily rountine now????????

One more thing its really good to see that u have pain for your religious brothers but why you always asked us to be silent on thosand of innocents killing in Palestine, Iraq, kashmir, Bosinia, Labnon, Pakistan, Afganistan & lot of others. hope so next time u'll understand our sentiment a well

So plz plz plz Stop this blaim game.

 

Good idea are you going to start by deleting your second paragraph?

 

Really? How do they all fit into such a tiny country?

 

he was not representing whole christianity....he killed many non-jews as well...

the difference is that the western world is not ruled by the christian religion...somehow that always seems to escape your memory....yet islamic law rules abundantly in the east...

 

At least they dont hang Rape victims in public and let the rapist go free to rape another woman.

 

I understand quite well. Thank you for pointing out how the "infidel" is bad.

I'm not interested in a personal website on compuserve. When I want facts, I go to reputable sources, like those I referenced. I want the real words, not verses where words are introduced to lessen their impact and distort their meaning.

I'll stick with reputable sources, thanks.

 

That is the "Risala ibn Abi Zayd" from 800 AD. It is a classical manual of Maliki fiqh, you can't get more reputable than that.

The problem with you is, you're stark, raving bonkers. You seem to think if I go out and strike off the neck of my friendly neighbourhood Christian sewerage worker * it'll be completely OK in my religion. That is not true, no knowledgable Muslim thinks this way.


* Due to historical reasons related to the British empire, most sewerage workers in my home city are Christians. No offence to Christianity intended.

 

This is abit harsh. How would they feel if we did that in England? There are more muslims in England than there is Christians in Pakistan.

 

Don't convince GTech -- convince the approximately 30% of Muslims who agree with his assessment.

 

And where'd you get that statistic from? Also GTech keeps insisting that the those supposed people are the "true muslims" according to what he understands from literal translations.

 

Repetitive polls conducted over the course of many years across many different geopolitical regions.

And he makes some damned good arguments to support that conclusion.

You tell me: Who is more of a true Muslim? Osama bin Laden or Lil' Kim?

 

Ok dirty kafir, understand it they way you want, no one is coming to change your understanding…in fact no body is interested…….

if I give a simple prescription for your head ache, you will first ask me ARE YOU A DOCTOR? I will say no but I know very much about medicine. You will simply reject my prescription and will say: go away, keep your knowledge with you; I will get treatment from some real doctor. Same answer i give to you and put a side what you say about Muhammad (pbuh) and you keep on interpolating Islam. No sensible person (except for those of your own creed) gona listen to your own made translation of holly quran without any study and knowing of Islam.

You even don’t know about Arabic and basic rules of Quran. You are so smart that all verses that talk about fighting enemy (like every commander boosts his army to fight bravely against enemies) but those verses which talk about peace and harmony, you say they were abrogated. Wow...what a logic….This clearly shows your malicious exertion to backlash Islam. If Islam was so bad, how come it is the second largest religion in world???????

Honey you can not interpolate Quran like it has been done with other scriptures. You have wonderful argument, yes you have. I am intimidated. (Have fun in Utopia)


............................

 

Tell me who has a better understanding of the Quran, hostile, ignorant american from 2000 AD or classical arab scholar from 800 AD?

 

I'll vote for the modern educated American over the barbaric tribesman from the middle ages.

Was this supposed to be a difficult question?