Paedophilia in the Catholic Church, yet another scandal!

I'm glad you are finally admitting your flaws, gworld. I understand the need to use psychological projection to project your own undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else. GTech is here for you, let it all out!

Keep up the good work and remember, you can say a bad word about a terrorist anytime you want, if in fact, you wanted to

 

You are an anti-American and pro-terrorist who is against all democratic principals that USA as a country values, you should be ashame of yourself for giving aid and comfort to terrorists.

 

The problem here isnt about whether to allow the preists to marry or not. The true problem and the church has said it many times is that there are alot of catholics and not enough priests, but allowing these pedophiles to become priests is what made things worse. Debunked, the other evangelical christian faiths also have this problem too. There are should be more stringent methods put in place to check these priests out.

no they shouldnt rethink the whole catholic thing, if u do that then u will have to tell this to jesus himself, who created the church.
Remember good ole peter and the keys))))))))))

Gworld are u smoking that hash again man. Where in the world did u read that stuff about the disciples???????? Was it the globe? If u look at paul he was a tax collector and im pretty sure he wasnt a virgin so that kind of blows ur theory out of the water man.

Jackul that is one thing i can agree with u on. Its the whole gold thing. that money coul dhave been put to much better use. Like feeding the poor in africa, india and other nations, or using that money to promote more regular people in the priesthood. Tough call on the marrying priests issue though.

 

Jesus didn't create anything catholic and what about Peter and the keys??

If you read what Jesus was against while on the earth was religious men creating laws and rules that were not from God, but traditions.

 

Debunked, what did jesus say to peter. He asked him 3 times who he was( 3 for trinity) Jesus doesnt repeat himself for the heck of it. Peter then replied " you are the messiah. Jesus then said something along the lines of" blessed are u peter for the father has shownto you what others havent seen"(not 100% accurate but the same meaning). He then said blessed are u peter for upon this rock(peter) i will build my church on and the gates of hades shall not prevail over this church . He also gave him the keys to teh kingdom of heaven and whatsoever you shall make loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Now lets discuss this rock thing. Evangelicals usually point to the greek or the king james bible( one lost the meaning from aramiac to greek, and the other had certain words in the bible changed). Now when jesus said " and upon this rock i will build my church by rock he meant peter.

There are 2 facts that prove this. Evangelicals point to the greek meaning for peter and rock( petra and petros) which disproves that peter and the rock were the same meaning. First , when jesus saw simon fishing he called him over and changed his name from simon to peter the rock( upon which). What most evangelicals dont realize is that when the greek was translated from the original aramiac that jesus spoke the words for rock and peter were kephas and kephas meaning that peter and rock were originallt the same meaning.

I think this proves that jesus build his church upon his ambassador on earth who was peter. He chose him above all the other disciples for this job not because he was the strongest and most faithful disciple but because he had the biggest heart and was the most loving of his disciples.

Now debunk about tradition, the bible itself points to the fact that bible alone isnt enough to know jesus's full word. Sorry but i have about 6 years of debate experience on this subject alone and i can pull out the versus in thebible itself that prove that bible only isnt enough and that jesus also wanted us to rely on some tradition to pass his word down .

Debunked no doubt there are popes that have abused their powers. Im not denying that. What we must watch out for is like in any government, the abuse of unwarranted power. Good ole Ike said it in his farewell address and we didnt head his warnings(jfk assasination, vietnam war(fake gulf of tonkin incident , the iraq war( another war built on a lie). Great power is like a drug
and can change your soul and make u vain and arrogant and self righteous.
We the people of this earth have to always be vigilant against anyone abusing this power, whether it be catholic priests or heads of states.

Catholic comes from the greek catholicos meaning universal

 

pingpong, I totally agree with what Jesus said to Peter who was a rock (of course his character didn't show this until after the resurrection) but the church that was built on that rock is Christ's church - His people. Where the catholic church comes in ????

Care to explain this? Also, the traditions of the catholic church are a blend of the Jewish (Pharisee) and Greek customs from everything I have read and seen. Of course they added a bunch of their own too.

 

I will try to find this info over the weekend, but i know there are a few versus in the bible itself that say it. I have too many old notes and my room as usual is a mess lol but i will try to get it by sunday.

I appologize for not seeing the first part of your statment till now Debunked, but we are not talking about who's teachings the church is built upon, we are talking in reference to jesus himself leaving an ambassador here on earth to build his church upon and spread jesus's teachings and that is unmistakably Peter. There can be no denying that statement as it is in all original bibles(and of course changed in the king james version which was formed later in the 1600's). You are kephas and upon this kephas i will build my church. The term catholic (catholicos) wasnt used until saint agnatious in the 100's but u can assume that because he never explained its meaning that it was a commonly used word before then. As for your second question i will try to have that answered by sunday.

http://www.iamonetruth.com/catholic.htm


Catholic as a name for a Church began to be used.


explain the Catholic faith


Home Catholic Church Apologetics Index

When did the term "Catholic", as used for The Catholic Church, come about?
"Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."


When did the term "Catholic" come about?
The oldest writing of the term is from St. Ignatius of Antioch.
I have heard as early as 107 AD or as late as 110 AD. Either way it happened before St. Ignatius died in 117 AD.
St. John died in 96 AD. The word Catholic was probably being used orally before it was written down. One can assume this due to the context of the letter. Ignatius doesn't explain what he means by "catholic", he just uses the term as though everyone knew what he is talking about.
It is conceivable that the term was being used by Christians while St. John was still alive.
The term was written down by St. Ignatius of Antioch. Antioch is where the term "Christian" was first used.
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New Advent - Early Church Fathers
St. Ignatius of Antioch
Also called Theophorus (ho Theophoros); born in Syria, around the year 50; died at Rome between 98 and 117.
from THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE SMYRAEANS
CHAPTER VIII.--LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.
"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid." (110 AD)
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Britannica - Online
Catholic
(from Greek katholikos, "universal"), the characteristic that, according to ecclesiastical writers since the 2nd century, distinguished the Christian Church at large from local communities or from heretical and schismatic sects.
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EnCarta Online
Catholic Church, The term catholic (Greek katholikos, universal, from katholou, in general) was first used in the letter of St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans (about ad110). The term was later used by Clement of Alexandria in his Stromata (Miscellanies). The technical use of the word seems to have been established by the beginning of the 3rd century. The formal principle of the Catholic church was expressed by the French theologian Vincent of Lérins as follows: That which has been believed everywhere, always, and by all. This is what is truly and properly catholic.





What's in a name??
First the followers of Jesus were called Jews... then by the Jews - heretics... then they were followers of "the Way" -Acts 9:2 "and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to "the Way", men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem."

Jewish




Followers of
"The Way"




Christian




Catholic


Then in Antioch the term Christian
(Acts 11:26), at least a year
(maybe as late as 40 years later)
after the "Birthday of the Church"
on Pentecost. Then within two
generations of the "Birthday of
the Church" they were referred
to as Catholic.




This was done for 2 reasons.
One: was to distinguish the true teachings from heretical teachings that were beginning to pop up.
Two: the call from God to mankind started with the Jews and was supposed to go from them (the Jews) to all mankind. When the call went from the Jews (the "Firstborn" sons of God) to the whole world, through Jesus, it became a "universal" call - or what we know as a "catholic=universal" call.


So, my point is that "Catholic" is known as the true church not because it was called "Catholic" by Christ. He didn't give a name to His group. They are called Catholic because they teach what He taught! They are called Catholic because the Catholic Church can trace in an unbroken line from our present day Pope all the way back to St. Peter! No other church can make and back up either of these claims!


Also, a common sense argument.
There is a road in the Bronx that goes all the way up to Boston. Where I lived it was known as the "Boston Post Road". So named because Ben Franklin himself laid out the route for the "postal" riders on horseback, from NY to Boston.
As one travels from NY to Boston the name of the road changes from Boston Post Road to Post Road to Main Street and back again to Post Road, but on a map it can be seen that it is all one and the same road irregardless of what it is called locally.


The "name" isn't the important point!!!
What is important, is whether we see the teachings of the present Catholic Church in the New Testament.
Which we have ample evidence of!
Of further importance, is whether or not the Catholic Church has an unbroken line of Bishops and Popes all the way back through the centuries to the Apostles.
Which it does!





The "Church" started by Jesus exists regardless of the "names" it has been called throughout the centuries.








The Protestant way is a "free-for-all" with each individual or group doing what is "right in their own eyes" (Judges 19:1). This is a quote from Judges when the Israelites went in every direction of faith and morals which brought great calamities upon Israel.

 

You two love each other, stop playing hard to get =P

 

I don't deny that they can trace history down to Peter, but that still doesn't mean Jesus ordained catholicism. And when has Jesus taught most of what represents the catholic church?

I am not talking about a name but a whole religion known as catholicism.

If you look at the many churches placed under the protestant name, yes, I would agree there is a free-for-all appearance. Many have started churches under the guise of a protestant church to sway others to some form of cult.

Most churches that I am familiar with have very much in common and the pastors even get along very well knowing they may have some small difference of opinion on a matter, but they keep searching the Word. Many of the churches in my city have worked together on different levels and pastors are even best of friends. But the common thread is still God's word and accepting Jesus as Christ the son of God. Some churches are liberal and just pick the verses they like and throw out the rest, but from what I have seen you post you would like those churches.

Please don't come back with Peter being the first pope. That line has never made any sense.

 

Are u talking about my political beliefs or my religious beliefs? Im sorry debunked but the bible was never meant to be translated by just anyone. As jesus gave this official chore to peter. I have always been consistent on where i stand on this. Minor differences? There is one key that most evangelicals refuse to believe in. That (im sorry to say this) if you have studied your bible history you will know that all evangelicals refuse to believe the original translation of the keys to the kingdom and to say this is a very minor things shows to me you know very little about the bible. This was a hugely important statement that jesus made and he could have picked anyone for this humungous responsibility but he chose peter.


This is what i call stubborness. I have ventured out into other christians faiths in my life but i came back to that verse which is a pure 100% fact. Jesus didnt leave the bible to be translated by just anyone. I have studied this statement in a historical aspect and anyone that knows the history of those times knew exactly how important those words were that jesus said to peter. I can right now say that i believe a certain verse in the bible told me that jesus believed that drinking banana juice is a cure for cancer. No one can make me believe otherwise because i chose to translate teh bible anyway i see fit. Sorry if u do that then you are going against jesus christ himself as he didnt say anyone can translate the words of his church that he built upon peter the rock(kephas the kephas)

Debunked i want u to go to your pastor and ask him to define that verse about peter and the rock that jesus built his church on. Thel ast evangelical i had this debate with asked me to email the original aramiac saying and as soon as i did he never emailed me back. My guess is that his foundation was shaken with the truth. Now debunked i want u to study this then tell me what u think jesus meant when he said this to peter, and please start your studying with the original aramiac and the culture at the time that jesus lived.

As far as picking and choosing which versus i like you havent given one shred of proof for this. Please if your gonna accuse me of something at least explain what it is lol.

I will take either your answer or your pastors answer. No skirting around the issue please

 

Do you mean that debunk and his preacher translation of bible texts as "Thou shalt torture and kill your borther" is wrong?

 

Gworld if u look at the commandment thou shalt not kill, it isnt the original commandment. The original states : thou shalt not murder which takes into account wartime or self defense. As with any killing its really up to the conscience of the individual and god to determine if that really was neccessary to stay alive.I once had a vietnam war veteran buddy that was an assasin in vietnam. I remember that he was dying of cancer brought on by his exposure to agent orange. I paid for his cross country bus ticket because he wanted to see all of america for one last time. I remember right before i dropped him off at the bus station he gave me one last bit of advice. He said never ever kill anyone, that i wouldnt want to know the feeling of that. He had over 250 confirmed kills and could remember every single one of them.

This is part of the reason why i am against that lie of a war in iraq. I dont wanna see anyone go through life as a homeless person have tragic flashbacks of the people he was ordered to kill for a lie.
Everytime i argue against that lie of a war i do it in honor of my friend and against the elite who start wars and sit back while our soldiers fight and die for a lie.

 

Huh? Define the verse? I have read that verse (as well as the chapter and book) numerous times. Define it? Jesus said he would build His church on Peter. Yes I agree. He never said a religious system - He said His church - if you notice when the word church was said it was His people who follow Him. Please don't take my view of the catholic church as a personal thing. I love the people, but I will go against the system that goes against Christ's teachings.

I read the Bible, so I don't need a pastor to read it for me. I don't believe what I believe because of what I was told to believe. I research and discern what I hear and double check the accuracy.

Not sure what you think I "accused" you of?

Btw, your political views should align with your religious views or you look double-minded. The catholic church is very strongly against abortion as an example.

 

Ok so the problem here is whether i can prove that what he said pertained to a religious system or not? I will also prove that this coming weekend . As far as my religious beliefs and political beliefs being one so far they have, but i also give others the right to believe what they believe. Its a murky grey area because jesus also believed in keeping politics and religion separate.

This weekend i will try to get more into the definition of what jesus meant as church and how it pertains to the catholic church. Fair enough? This is what i get for having my notes all over the place and having the memory of a 70 year old lol hehehehe

 

I really appreciate the effort you are putting into the discussion.

are you really 70?

As far as politics goes, those things that I see would align to what Jesus would do I vote that way. On other matters I have to vote what is best for most people or is good for the one who can't defend him/herself. My convictions on family, marriage, life stem from my relationship with Jesus and therefore I vote a certain way politically. What I have even reprimanded the Christian Coalition on was there way of making certain political issues some how religious or moral, that crossed the line by trying to say people should vote certain ways because they are Christian (even though I voted the same way they were wanting people to, but by my choice of what I saw as right)

 

What does the original commandment says about torture and if a prisoners is killed which poses no danger and therefore can not be classified as self defense, is it murder or not?

 

I think it's amazing how many "christians" dabble or delve, mix politics with religion.

Take a look at how Jesus viewed political status in John 18:36, John 6:10-15 and most importantly Mark 12:13-17.

Now, if Jesus wanted us to meddle in politics, then would he not have had an example for us to follow?

This is some of the reasons why I do not vote for any human government. Because the party I am voting for has not humans in it. Human governments have had their time in mankind's history and have performed miserably. Although, some have provided materially form time to time, how they have treated individuals is sometimes woeful.

It is a heavenly government I want to look out for my best interests. Why? Because, Jesus showed us great examples why he is to be King of that heavenly government. He healed, he resurrected, he honoured his Father and he loved us all, regardless if we were against him or for him.

Remember what is written in Isaiah 48:16-19. The question then, is really this "Are you really paying attention?"

Col

 

Well when you go from a Polish Pope to a Nazi Pope, it's kinda hard to make progress...

We need an Italian Pope again!!!

Signed (Recovering Catholic)....

 

There's a whole list of it here. Enjoy!

http://religion.sturgisfund.com/category/sexual-offences/

- MENJ

 

Well that didn't take long... Man, I think that menj even had AC beat on the fastest comeback/ban.