I just recently authored a post pointing out some negative aspects of Overture/Yahoo Marketing, but now I think it is important to point out the positives. Yes you can use their poor practices to your advantage and gain truly inexpensive advertising. First of all I think it is important to point out that I am a webmaster for a mortgage lender and I am in no way involved with the peddling of anything internet related. I give you my experience of dealing with PPC advertising over a 9 year period of time. More importantly I ask you to look at your own internet surfing and consider the listings that you click on to find products, services or information. When you are on Google for example, how often do you look to the far right for those small 3 line non-descriptive ads? I know I don't, but I am sure that my competitors do, but again I am only speaking for myself. I personally have tried each and every US based PPC search engine there is and have concluded the following; there are only two PPC search engines that will bring you solid leads and/or customers, Overture/Yahoo and Google. I have found that Overture/Yahoo gives me a 40% return on my click dollar, where Google gives me a 20% return. By the term "return", I am referring to actual consumers clicking on my site that may consider my services. This in now way should be thought of as actual sales, as out of 500 Overture clicks in a day, I only see 6% of those clickers applying for a mortgage. If you are considering using a small PPC Engine, like Findwhat or Enhance, Don't. As I have stated above, the only traffic they provide is from paid surfers, who of course are paid to surf and blindly click on the high dollar listings. At one time I was using 15 small PPC engines at once, at the end of the month I found that all of those combined had only accounted for 2 actual applications. So when I though I was getting off cheap, I had just paid $250 dollars per application, which of course is no bargain at all. I believe in that what makes Overture/Yahoo marketing the only game in town, because if your listing is in the top 2 or 3, it is displayed above the natural listings on numerous search engines, most importantly Yahoo & MSN. As I have said about Goolge still holds true for Overture/Yahoo, how many people look to the far right for a product or services? (Note: Generic Keywords have 3 top paid listings above the natural listings on Yahoo, example; "Mobile Home loan". Specific Keywords have 2 top paid listings above the natural listings on Yahoo, example; "Mobile Home loan Oregon". Overture after being purchased by Yahoo, has decided to go the Google way and turn a blind eye to their own guidelines for the almighty dollar. Just Two days ago, Overture/Yahoo disconnected all of their customer support phone numbers, customers have lost all phone support and now must rely on email. Before we dive into how you can use their poor practices to your advantage and gain truly inexpensive advertising, let's look at what's changed. It is important to note that most of these changes blatantly violate their own customer guidelines and service agreement. Because of these changes I now have over 400,000 keywords, on 399,200 of those keywords, I pay a mere 10 cents. 1) Adding Keywords - Since they have tossed out the bulk of their human editorial review staff, when you now add keywords, they are listed instantly, just like Google. The keywords that are rejected by their bots, can be resubmitted again and again, until they are approved. 2) Misspellings and Common Keystroke Errors - This is now allowed and should have a huge impact for the advertiser on a small budget, which I will go into detail later. 3) Multiple Mirror Sites - Again, you now have the ability to launch multiple mirror sites on the same keyword, so for all intense purposes you can have you site listed in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd position on the same keyword. 4) Competitors URLS & Names - Now you can bid on your competitors names and URL's, so when a consumer types your competitors URL or name into the search bar, they get your listing. We are reviewed Overtures/Yahoo Marketing flaws or weaknesses, now let's discuss how to get lots quality traffic to your site and avoid fraudulent clicks. Your goal should be to have as many keywords as possible that are relevant to your site, while only paying 10 cents a click. It is also important to note the most of your fraudulent clicks comes from paid surfers, not your competition. That being said, paid surfers target big money listings, not the small stuff, unless we are talking about the small PPC search engines, where 10 cents is a big bid. Now, Step by Step.. Cheap PPC Advertising on Overture/Yahoo Marketing 1) Go to http://www.goodkeywords.com and down load a their free keyword program. 2) Make a list of your current top keywords and keyword phrases, specific to your product or services. Make a separate list of generic keywords and another of specific keywords. An example would be; GENERIC SPECIFIC Mobile Home Mobile Home Little Rock AR Mobile Home Loan Mobile Home Loans California Mobile Home Financing Mobile Home Financing Brea California 3) Open Good Keywords v2 - Take your list of Generic keywords and one by one insert them into the tab "Keyword Suggestions", you will now get a list of the top keywords that are searched on either Yahoo, Overture or both that are related to the base keyword, an example would be, "Mobile Home" and the results would be; (Long List, scroll past examples to continue) mobile home mobile home parks community dealer home mobile rental rv mobile home mobile home parks mobile home loan mobile home for sale mobile home sales fleetwood mobile home used mobile home mobile home mortgage mobile home repair mobile home financing mobile home insurance mobile home manufacturer residential mobile home site operator mobile home part mobile home dealer mobile home skirting mobile home for rent mobile home floor plan mobile home supply mobile home rental clayton mobile home used mobile home for sale tmobile home page mobile home insurance quote mobile home lender mobile home parks for sale mobile home refinancing mobile home las vegas florida mobile home refinance mobile home bad credit mobile home loan mobile home los angeles oakwood mobile home mobile home value mobile home values mobile home door mobile home mover mobile home chicago mobile home san luis obispo com en home language mobile site new mobile home com en home language mobile park site mobile home san diego double wide mobile home mobile home blue book repo mobile home mobile home riverside mobile home washington dc mobile home prices adult community florida home in mobile park venice acreage for mobile home in texas mobile home for sale by owner champion mobile home mobile home philadelphia mobile home houston florida mobile home for sale palm harbor mobile home mobile home st louis manufactured mobile home mobile home detroit fleetwood mobile home floor plan mobile home phoenix mobile home plan mobile home window skyline mobile home mobile home nassau mobile home pittsburgh mobile home minneapolis mobile home dallas mobile home texas mobile home transport mobile home orange county mobile home manufacture florida mobile home insurance mobile home community mobile home furnace manufactured mobile home transporting mobile home california mobile home seattle triple wide mobile home florida mobile home rental mobile home kansas city mobile home finance solitaire mobile home redman mobile home mobile home repos michigan mobile home florida mobile home parks moving mobile home mobile home remodeling mobile home addition mobile home picture mobile sell home mobile home bath tub mobile home listing single wide mobile home mobile home for sale in florida 4) Now delete the keywords that are not specific or related to your product or service. Repeat step 3 until you have made a list for all generic keywords. Add all all keywords together on note pad for example, both generic and specific. 5) Open Good Keywords v2 - Take your list of keywords and one by one insert them into the tab "Misspelled Keywords" this will give you the top misspellings and common key stroke errors for each keyword on either Yahoo, Overture or both that are related to the base keyword. Misspellings and key stroke errors are very common, how many times have you see, "Did You Mean" after you have spelled something in error when searching? By simple error, this can turn a $3 dollar click into a 10 Cents click. Have I got your attention yet? An example would be, "Mobile Home financing" and the results would be; (Long List, scroll past examples to continue) obile Home Financing oMbile Home Financing MMobile Home Financing Nobile Home Financing Jobile Home Financing Kobile Home Financing Mbile Home Financing Mboile Home Financing Moobile Home Financing Mibile Home Financing Mpbile Home Financing M9bile Home Financing M0bile Home Financing Mkbile Home Financing Mlbile Home Financing Moile Home Financing Moible Home Financing Mobbile Home Financing Movile Home Financing Monile Home Financing Mogile Home Financing Mohile Home Financing Moble Home Financing Moblie Home Financing Mobiile Home Financing Mobule Home Financing Mobole Home Financing Mobjle Home Financing Mobkle Home Financing Mob8le Home Financing Mob9le Home Financing Mobie Home Financing Mobiel Home Financing Mobille Home Financing Mobike Home Financing Mobioe Home Financing Mobipe Home Financing Mobil Home Financing Mobil eHome Financing Mobilee Home Financing Mobilw Home Financing Mobilr Home Financing Mobils Home Financing Mobild Home Financing Mobil3 Home Financing Mobil4 Home Financing MobileHome Financing MobileH ome Financing Mobile Home Financing Mobile ome Financing Mobile oHme Financing Mobile HHome Financing Mobile Gome Financing Mobile Jome Financing Mobile Yome Financing Mobile Uome Financing Mobile Bome Financing Mobile Nome Financing Mobile Hme Financing Mobile Hmoe Financing Mobile Hoome Financing Mobile Hime Financing Mobile Hpme Financing Mobile H9me Financing Mobile H0me Financing Mobile Hkme Financing Mobile Hlme Financing Mobile Hoe Financing Mobile Hoem Financing Mobile Homme Financing Mobile Hone Financing Mobile Hoje Financing Mobile Hoke Financing Mobile Hom Financing Mobile Hom eFinancing Mobile Homee Financing Mobile Homw Financing Mobile Homr Financing Mobile Homs Financing Mobile Homd Financing Mobile Hom3 Financing Mobile Hom4 Financing Mobile HomeFinancing Mobile HomeF inancing Mobile Home Financing Mobile Home inancing Mobile Home iFnancing Mobile Home FFinancing Mobile Home Dinancing Mobile Home Ginancing Mobile Home Rinancing Mobile Home Tinancing Mobile Home Cinancing Mobile Home Vinancing Mobile Home Fnancing Mobile Home Fniancing Mobile Home Fiinancing Mobile Home Funancing Mobile Home Fonancing Mobile Home Fjnancing Mobile Home Fknancing Mobile Home F8nancing Mobile Home F9nancing Mobile Home Fiancing Mobile Home Fianncing Mobile Home Finnancing Mobile Home Fibancing Mobile Home Fimancing Mobile Home Fihancing Mobile Home Fijancing Mobile Home Finncing Mobile Home Finnacing Mobile Home Finaancing Mobile Home Finsncing Mobile Home Finzncing Mobile Home Finqncing Mobile Home Finwncing Mobile Home Finacing Mobile Home Finacning Mobile Home Finanncing Mobile Home Finabcing Mobile Home Finamcing Mobile Home Finahcing Mobile Home Finajcing Mobile Home Finaning Mobile Home Finanicng Mobile Home Financcing Mobile Home Finanxing Mobile Home Finanving Mobile Home Finanding Mobile Home Finanfing Mobile Home Financng Mobile Home Financnig Mobile Home Financiing Mobile Home Financung Mobile Home Financong Mobile Home Financjng Mobile Home Financkng Mobile Home Financ8ng Mobile Home Financ9ng Mobile Home Financig Mobile Home Financign Mobile Home Financinng Mobile Home Financibg Mobile Home Financimg Mobile Home Financihg Mobile Home Financijg Mobile Home Financin Mobile Home Financingg Mobile Home Financinf Mobile Home Financinh Mobile Home Financint Mobile Home Financiny Mobile Home Financinv Mobile Home Financinb 6) At this point you should have one hell of a list, now lets add these keywords to Overture. Keep in mind the following; You can add as many as 500 keywords and I would recommend using the same title for all relevant listings. Example. Load all the misspellings for "Mobile Home Financing" at the same time, then you can use a single title and description for all keywords, which will greatly speed up the process. Remember, that your title can be as long as 40 characters, I strongly recommend using all characters, the longer your title is the better and make it specific to the keyword, an example; "mobile home financing" , my title would be "Mobile Home Financing & Loans - 6.74%". Give your customers something to grab, a long title provides this. Also the quickest way to get the bots to kick out your submission is due to excessive Capitals in your description. Go light on the Capitals, try and use them only at the beginning of a sentence. 7) Wait 24 hours and resubmit all keywords that were not immediately added, you will find these in editorial review under, Rejected and Pending Approval. This is just the start of your advertising campaign, now get creative and start expanding, the more keywords specific to your industry the better. Have a nice day, Jack B. Jordan Webmaster
Currently I am running a very successful campaign on Overture, using common misspellings and common keystroke errors, combined with very specific keywords. I recently loaded 200,000 of the same keywords that provide me hundreds of visitors from Overture for a mere 10 cents a click. Although, I am the only advertiser using these keywords, Google's mandatory bids ranged from 4 cents to 30 cents. Unlike the natural listings, the sponsored links can not be controlled by specific keywords, the non-specific keywords override them. So for example, using a keyword like, "Mobile Home Financing Denver Colorado". is useless, because it reverts to the high bid on, "Mobile Home Financing". As I said before, the same keywords that provide hundreds of clicks on Overture, provide as little a click a day on Google. Jack
Jack, Thanks for the post. I use Overture and Google as well as a few of the smaller ones. The smaller ones are OK on a few subjects but not strong for business or technology. I find Overture to be one of the worst web applications that I have used. Starting with buttons that are in the wrong place (you can fill in a bunch of ad descriptions and hit the button where the submit button normally is in a form and it resets all your ads to be one ad?!?!). I also don't like having to go through and edit all my bids after submitting keywords. They place the bid for top spot in the form and I have to edit to my bid. I also tried their bid options and it didn't work. Ignoring my rant, how do you get 200,000 keywords into their system at the bid you want? I don't see a bulk upload option. I am not a premier advertiser or whatever they have for a higher level. I'd like to spend thousands per year with them but I find their system way to cumbersome even compared to the second tier players like 7search.
"Jack, Thanks for the post. I use Overture and Google as well as a few of the smaller ones. The smaller ones are OK on a few subjects but not strong for business or technology. " I agree with that, as I have said before, the small PPC engines only survive because of paid surfers. Only certain products will capture a surfer trying to make a buck. I find Overture to be one of the worst web applications that I have used. Starting with buttons that are in the wrong place (you can fill in a bunch of ad descriptions and hit the button where the submit button normally is in a form and it resets all your ads to be one ad?!?!). I might be just used to their system, my biggest gripe is that you can only submit 500 keywords per shot and when you are adding a 100,000 for example, this can be very time consuming. I also don't like having to go through and edit all my bids after submitting keywords. They place the bid for top spot in the form and I have to edit to my bid. I also tried their bid options and it didn't work. This in my opinion is Overture, being Overture out for the almighty buck. As I have stated before I believe most of their system is now automated. They are hoping advertisers get lazy and submit their bids at the top bid, not wanting to take the time to edit them prior to submission. Have you noticed that the submission page does not give advertisers the ability to change all bids on the page, you must do it manually. I have started submitting at 7:00 AM and the bids with no competition are instantly approved. The keywords with high bids seem to be held back until hours later, normally 2 AM - 4 AM. I have been lazy before too and have waited to edit bids after they have been approved only to get to my computer in the morning to find that I am bidding $7 dollars on multiple keywords. Ignoring my rant, how do you get 200,000 keywords into their system at the bid you want? I don't see a bulk upload option. I am not a premier advertiser or whatever they have for a higher level. I'd like to spend thousands per year with them but I find their system way to cumbersome even compared to the second tier players like 7search.[/QUOTE] By submitting 500 at a time and yes you can email them a spread sheet, but that would be reviewed by a editor and as I have stated before misspellings and typing errors are not allowed and an editor would catch what you are trying to accomplish. In my opinion this must be costing them a lot of money, let's use the keyword example of "Mobile Home Financing", I can pay $4 dollars a click and receive 50 clicks in a day. On the other hand I can use an army of misspellings and common keystroke errors and receive 100 clicks at 10 cents. On Saturday I had 24 people come to me by the keyword, "obile home financing". I have to smile because the advertisers below me are paying full boat. If you will go to this keyword you will see my site listed twice, using different URL's, something you could have never done in the past. The easiest way to add bulk keywords to Overture is by using the same title, url and ad copy. I use excel spreadsheet for this, so for example, start with the base keyword "Car Loan". I want to add every city in the USA on to this keyword. In one excel column I cut and past all US cities, in the next column I put my keyword "Car Loan". In the third or next column I put the formula, =A1&" "&B1, which ads my columns together. Now you get hundreds of keywords all related to Car Loans. Not to dwell, but I don't stop here, now I add, "I want", "I need", "Need to Get" on to the keyword list that I previously created. Have a good Day, Jack
Jack, Thanks for this information. We did use overture for a while but quit it due to little return. However after reading this I am thinking of trying it out again your way. -Dustin
Not sure how many keywords you are submitting at a time. I submit at least 500 at a shot, out of those 50% are added instantly. The remaining keywords are then under reveiw or declined. I wait 24 hours and re-submit all, and again 50% are instantly approved. Even the ads that were previously declined. I am only guessing that your delay could be because of the product you are selling or your time as a advertiser with Overture/Yahoo Marketing. I have been with Overture since 1997 and my product is mortgages. May I suggest submitting your listings in the late AM, when Overture is closed. Remeber the are in Pasadena, CA. (West Coast) You may have also noticed that they have killed their phone numbers and removed all phone contact information from the web. I was lucky enough to get a phone number for contact, (866) 924-6676. Not sure how long this number will be good, they will probably disconnect it, once they discover the public has it. Jack
Thanks for the information, I am currently using just Adwords for ppc advertising, but I am considering Overture too, this info may be very useful to me down the track.
I tired the Overture misspelling thing this week and it is going ok so far. I have submitted a few thousand keywords each night at about 2AM Eastern time each day and they have all gone in almost immediately. Last night I attempted the same thing and they were all held in "pending" until 4PM Eastern time today where they were looked at manually (I could tell by my traffic log and an IP address at overture.com who went into multiple pages) About 20-25 non-mispelled words were accepted and the other few thousand misspellings were rejected for " Other, Excluded Words Added" reason. Is there something about Friday night into Saturday that caused them to get held and manually screened or was this just bad luck? Should I re-submit them again and if I do that and they are "caught" again can there be any negative impact on my whole account? Is a better tactic to try a few tester words to see if their auto process is working on unstaffed "auto-pilot" or are they being held and manually screened? Thanks Michael
Somethings have happened this week that have really surprised me, got a call from Overture/Yahoo requesting that I only submit a maximum of 3,000 listings a day and now I am required to do it by emailing them spread sheets. They said I was bogging down their system. Yes I would would resubmit all of your denials after 24 hours and remember yiu are the customer, not the employee, Jack
I has now been 72 hours and I'm going to re-submit them again. Do you think it is best to do them overnight (2AM Eastern/11PM Pacific) or morning hours (say 9AM Eastern/6AM Pacific)? We need to develop a profile here of when the autoeditors are at the helm and when Yahoo! is actually staffed Mike
Mgiven, I would only resubmit the keywords that are declined, the others that are waiting on reveiw, let Yahoo take their time, most will be approved. Jack
Jack, Thanks for sharing this information with us. Yesterday, I added several hundred new ads in Overture using misspelled keyword phrases. Some ads show up (seems to be the badly misspelled ones like ones with a number in it) but a lot don't. As you know, Overture says they direct keyword misspellings to a primary keyword or keyword phrase and that seems to be the case in the ads where I don't appear. Are are you running into this too? Thanks, Griffith
Gmanobmo, All of your approved misspelled keywords will always appear on Overture, with the corrected keyword below you. But I have noticed that they do not always appear on Yahoo, it depends on the time of day and I know that makes no sense. Also I have noticed that misspellings that could be keyboard stroke errors are more likely to appear than that of gross misspellings. But I have to say that while it lasts, before Yahoo goes the way of Google, there are going to be a lot of advertisers getting cheap high quality placement. Jack
I must say that this was the most annoying process I've ever been through. If it weren't for the free $25 credit I would have dropped it. I don't want to call from the number I listed to verify my CC. It wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't have to do it 7 times before it accepted it. *Ugh* It was just annoying for me but I hope the results will make it worth it.
This reminds me of a few years ago when I had a typo in one of the www.blazemp.com pages. I was getting a lot of traffic from the misspelling.