Opening an Online Smoke Shop - Legal Issues?

That is the same statute I posted a few posts up. Glass Pipes and Waterpipes are sold for the sole purpose of being use to smoke tobacco with, so how is that not traditional?

You are ignoring the exemptions at the bottom, which clearly state it is legal.

Your opinion on the use of tobacco related products is obviously biased, and you are trying way to hard to prove something that is not true, if the DEA says that selling is legal, how can you go and say it's not?

You have yet to provide ANYTHING that helps your statements. I am 100% open to your ideas, but I don't listen to what some random guy says on the internet, I think the DEA would be more of a trustable website.

 

How do I know you talked to an attorney? Care to provide a transcript?

I have read over the DEA Section 863 and this part caught my attention too:

Matters considered in determination of what constitutes drug paraphernalia
In determining whether an item constitutes drug paraphernalia, in addition to all other logically relevant factors, the following may be considered:

(1) instructions, oral or written, provided with the item concerning its use;

(2) descriptive materials accompanying the item which explain or depict its use;

(3) national and local advertising concerning its use;

(4) the manner in which the item is displayed for sale;

(5) whether the owner, or anyone in control of the item, is a legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community, such as a licensed distributor or dealer of tobacco products;

(6) direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the item(s) to the total sales of the business enterprise;

(7) the existence and scope of legitimate uses of the item in the community; and

(8) expert testimony concerning its use.

The enter page to my site clearly says these products are only intended for the use of tobacco and using them for anything else is illegal.

Would a tobacco license help?

 

They are NOT legal
Wow are you dense.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/276/paraphernaliacrackdown.shtml

You sound like one of those he speaks of 'howling'

 

Head Shops are not legal in all locations. It depends upon the state, county, city etc. For example, in Dayton Ohio they outlawed them years ago and several established shops had to close down or move. At the same time there is a Philman's in Miamisburg (just a mile or so from Dayton) that has been in operation for more than 20 years.

 

I am NOT biased, it is you who is biased!

FFS get the shit out of your ears. I am PRO legalizing, if you want to own a bong I think you should be able to! How the fuck would I be biased against something I think should be legal?

The exception you speak of is traditional items, items that yet a fucking gain is traditional! You know, grandpas tobacco pipe!

I went through this shit once myself, people like you with their heads stuck up their asses, who think they know it all 'but' ask about legality, with no real knowledge on the subject piss me the fuck off.

 

Yes, 'however' when you ship a product over the border of a state you open yourself up to interstate commerce clauses, AKA federal law.

That is how operation pipe dream went down, 'not' because of a 'bong' many of them were simply selling glass pipes, some even books!

 

Your article is irrelevant, it talks about people calling it bongs, which is clear illegal, calling it a water pipe is not. I don't sell bongs.

I am not dense, I just don't believe everything I read on the internet, some guy saying it's illegal versus the DEA saying it is legal, hmm tough choice to believe here, right?

You have to see it form my site, I see it's legal according to the DEA site, and some random guy is trying to say it's illegal, who would you believe?

 

I don't think I know it all, why would I post asking for advice on the subject if It thought I knew it all?

What type of attorney would I contact about this?

 

The DEA DOES NOT state it is legal. .

The attorney states a 'bong' simply because that is something all people can relate to, I have read many items from this same attorney, others he speaks of glass pipes!

The attorney I went to see is listed and registered with Norml!

You obviously think you know it all as you sure are acting like it, using 'traditional' to mean something it does not.,

Not a general attorney, an attorney listed with NORML would be a good start!

I wish it was legal, the fact is it is not! NO matter if I can find you an article specifically stating it is.

You are seriously misreading the DEA's site, 'traditional' is 'traditional' as grandpas tobacco pipe.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/174/headsup.shtml

Your reading of 'traditional' is destroyed with the federal statute which takes away the 'subjective' readings, or in others words simply saying 'tobacco use only!

 

What was the name of the attorney you spoke with? I would like to contact him myself, since I honestly am not believing a word that you are saying, you can't back up your side of the story, and keep making bogus claims.

How is something that is made for the use of tobacco not considered traditional? That doesn't make any sense, so how could it be true?

 

You have not backed up anything other than stating the 'DEA's own website states it's legal' which it does not.

I have given links, articles by actual attorneys, all you've done is state traditional over and over.



I do not remember the name right this second, if I can remember it I will surely post it.

Glass is NOT traditional for tobacco, especially coming from a guy with the user name 420 and a weed forum, come on do you think people are that stupid?



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Here you go, the attorney I personally went to see. Beyond that of those I have talked with before, and articles read..

Removed attorney's personal info.

 

I completely agree, but in fact it doesnt matter whether anyone agrees or not - a fact is a fact and you are correct.

 

It is a fuzzy ass law, it's like fireworks in a way. Once city it's fine, one city it's not. But if you ship to that city in a different state, well you just broke the law

 

I went to the NORML website and found a list of lawyers in Arizona that deal with this sort of stuff, I will report back on what he says.

GRIM, no you have not supported your side in anyway, all you did was google search for operation pipe dream.

You won't answer my questions and keep going back to the same crap, which doesn't even prove it's illegal to sell these.

Just stop posting, your opinion is not needed.

 

I never did a Google search about it, but I know about the interstate laws regarding paraphernalia. In fact, I recall hearing about it when T Chong went to jail.

Why should anyone have to prove anything to you anyway? You asked for advice and you got it. Grim has taken quite a bit of time out to try to inform you of what's up with this issue. There is certainly no need to get angry or hostile about it.

 

Yeah because if I didn't provide a source you would have believed anything.

Actually I did answer, I showed sources, busts, attorneys words, but yep nothing to prove it's illegal.

Sorry but I don't follow orders from people like you

 

I wont go into detail but I lived through it, when I see someone wanting to do this I cringe and try to warn them.

Every time however I get the same response, people who think they know everything, no matter what you show them they say 'but it's for tobacco' the same defense those who went down in previous busts used.

One of these days I'll stop caring.

 

You need to look it at from their perspective, instead of coming in and being a complete asshole and trying to prove a point that they obvious think is not true, you don't sit there and try to call them dense, and then expect them to believe what you are saying.

How much does a retail space usually cost? If I can't sell these online, I am going to sell them somewhere.

 

I have seen people selling cigs @ Ebay.com ..

 

hmmm the dense statement came after you chose to ignore everything I was trying to say and others and simply fighting it to say they were legal.

Retail spots will differ from community, again with these type of items though many communities will not allow them.