Online Blog being used for Defamation of Character

As has been mentioned, a copyright is created the exact moment something is put into tangible form. Whether that be recording a song, drawing a picture, or pressing the shutter release on a camera, the moment it's in tangible form a copyright has been created. Registering with the US copyright office is not required to have a copyright. It does however allow you to seek higher damages in court.

It seems commonplace now that people without any experience or a proper portfolio resort to the theft of other photographers' property. Ignorance is often a common defense however having had a few websites designed myself I find that a very difficult pill to swallow. Why? In today's industry your website is your storefront. Without a website you have no storefront. I don't know any photographers who don't monitor their websites on a constant basis ESPECIALLY during the design process. I have yet to meet a single photographer who took their website live without first seeking peer review or at the very least, reviewing the content and checking the user interface for errors before approving it to go live. When I had my website designed, the designer asked me for images and I provided them. I provided them with images that >>>I<<< shot myself. I reviewed every change vigorously. I personally can not comprehend how a photographer can have someone else's images on their website for public viewing without knowing it unless the site was hacked which does not appear to be the case here.

I'd like to address another point here. I fully support and applaud Neil for bringing this person's misdeeds to the attention of the photography community. Let's forget about the fact that Neil has been wronged and think about who else has been wronged? Brides. A wedding is an extremely important event that marks a milestone in a couple's life and brings together family and friends that are rarely if ever all at the same place at the same time. Our jobs as photographers are to artistically capture a historical record of that day. This job represents a HUGE amount of responsibility. Imagine if you looked at a website and booked a photographer only to find out that the work you based your decision upon was NOT the work of the person who you hired. When do you find out about this? Probably after your wedding when you discover that the photographs that you got back are not representative of what was shown to you. I find this behavior to be outrageous.

Cheers, Joe

 

does anybody else find this thread a bit odd and uncomfortable? - most of the posters have less than 5 posts, and only in this thread.

 

Magda,
That's because we have come on here to call out a liar and defend an honest man from being perpetrated as a bully to a poor little girl. Seriously the poor girl thing alone threw me in a tizzy. How dumb is that? Anyway. You can look up many of us to find our background and integrity, no so much for the OP.
I for example have had a blog for the last two years and it includes over 700 posts including those of my family. What is disturbing is the OP using this or any forum as a means to discredit a respected professional in the industry and that the forum sided with her until some resonable people stepped forward.

It should be uncomfortable. Theft of copyright is nothing to joke about.
CA

 

That's what I thought - you've been sent over from another site/blog/forum, to whip up an issue that would have died a natural death.

 

Yes, I was searching online for advices and I came across with this forum so I registered and asked the masses about their advice with my situation. I don't think Im violating any forum laws with that. Sorry, I don't have a blog or any other type of media press so being not familiar with online tools so I asked the forum . Im not looking for a pity from others, I am looking for advice.

I honestly did not steal his site or his photos, even from what the web developer wrote to Neil, it is their responsibility and any website info should be addressed to them. The site was in development stage, I was not aware of the photos being on there. As you can see the site was not even on my own domain, it is on a test site of the developer. By the way, I broke off and no longer employ the services of the website designer. It is better that way to have no more conflicts. This is not something I did and my name is being under the gun here.

wow, i didn't think that this post is going to be a battle like this.

I opened up my e-mail this morning and received another "hate" e-mail. I kept them with the other files of hate mails that I received once his blog was up and my phone number and e-mail was publicly posted. So far I've received voice mails from who knows who (acclaimed his friend) and anonymous e-mails who obviously knows what is going on during the situation (I saved all these artifacts).


I just want to clear up things, the site is down because when I asked a copyright lawyer here in my city, he told me to just redesign the site to avoid any other issues. He told me that taking this to court will be very, very expensive that the lawyer fees will be probably 6x more than what the damages can be.

I showed the copyright lawyer all the emails, voicemails, and the blog and he told me that this is something different. He said that I have a case in regards to defamation of character and should seek a personal injury lawyer about that. I haven't done that yet just because I know going to court is costly and takes a lot of time however, if my work is being more affected especially with hate mails being sent all the time especially to my employer then I will surely reconsider.

For now, my site is down because I am afraid that more "hate" mails will be sent and this time to my clients. If anonymous email senders have found my current employer, how do I know they will stop. Im afraid they will contact my customers in the future once my site is up.

Im not trying to ruin anyone's reputation, I was just here to clearly seek advice in regards to blogs and website. I am willing so speak to Neil about this and resolve the issue.

 

Magda

I have not been sent or referred by Neil. In fact I'd say none of us have been sent or referred by Neil.

Personally, I have known Neil professionally for a few years. I have had the pleasure of working with Neil as a colleague and I know many who have benefited from Neil's open and frank opinions on and his expansive knowledge of the technical aspects of photography.

I came to this forum for one purpose, to chase the OP out into the open. I do not want her to hide or find comfort and aid from others for her actions. She could have backed down when confronted with the evidence against her. The OP could have said that she was sorry and scrapped the site and pulled the stolen and copied visual and text material.

Even in her follow up post she comes off as the victim. She implies that she has been wronged. She seems to completely miss the fact that she had the opportunity to back down and apologize to the person that she stole from. She keeps viewing the actual victim of her actions as the perpetrator and that is not how the world works

Instead of doing the right thing ethically, morally and professionally, the OP came here to drum up support for herself. I won't let her do that and I won't let her trash a colleague. Especially a well respected one.

-Steven Frischling
www. fishfotoworldwide. com
fish @ fishfotoworldwide. com




PS: You would NOT seek a personal injury lawyer for defamation of character. Also a copyright lawyer would not tell you that you have a case against your victim. The evidence against you is overwhelming. I am sure you did not present the evidence to the lawyer to try and make yourself look favourable though. At some point he would have seen the evidence and informed you to drop it. None the less, a personal injury attorney is for physical injury, such as an auto accident, industrial accident or any accident where your physical being is in need medical treatment.

 

I just posted a reply back but now I want to answer your question.

I did apologize to Neil over the phone and have told him that I am sorry for what happened which I was not totally aware off. As soon as he called me, I called my website designer ASAP and let her know. The site was put down and things have been set aside. I only put up this post because I saw my name on google and his blog being the first.

Even the website designer, tried to avoid the conflict and took down the site, emailed him for an apology for the confusion , and also called him on the phone to resolve the issues.

I don't want this to go any longer online. I am willing resolve things these issue and forget about it. This will be my final post.

 

Okay, I've been giving this some thought.

ASSUMING you had no idea these images weren't Neils, and Assuming that you're web person got them from "stock photography" and assuming the template was from some template place online... I think you should have a huge problem with your web designer.

because the fact is- she was designing your site by copying someone's site and using their images....

you need to fire her.

 

I DID. I no longer seek her services.

 

I didn't say that you violated any forum laws. You haven't. But you were seeking out support for your side. Funn you would come to a forum for that when you have already stated that you have spoke with a lawyer, why then would you need the support of a forum you just joined? And the title of the post alone can lead one to see why you did the post.

Honestly you did. Your business did as a matter of hiring the designer. I have hired a designer before for multiple web stuff and I make it clear to them that they are not to steal any code from other sites. I will not tolerate it and have it tarnish my name. You are responsible for those you hire. Sorry my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Did you think it wouldn't be tracked? Silly you. Must be the poor girl thing.

Save away. I'm not surprised your getting e-mails. Photogs are passionate about copyright. As should all in a creative profession. I hope they aren't threatening and harmful physically. But don't blame them otherwise. I don't claim Neil as a friend. Yes I've met him, but I haven't had the privilege to really know him as a friend. I am on here as a fellow photog who is passionate about copyright and willing to stand up for others.

But had you seen the site prior to Neil pointing it out to you? If you had why didn't you bother to ask where the images had come from? If you had and were told they were stock images, why didn't you supply some of your own. It had obviously been up for a while, google doesn't normally pick things up that fast.

So basically now you are trying to take matter into your own hands. What you are saying Neil did wrong. Well you don't seem to realize that you didn't pick a fight with some newbie photog who is unknown. You picked a fight with a well respected wonderful person and photog that has the backing of a rather expansive photography community, even if he doesn't ask for it.

How are they contacting your clients? Really are you serious? And prove please that anyone found your employer or your clients. I have yet to see any proof of this.

Yes you are by coming on her and saying things like Neil contacted your employer and not showing any proof. I'm glad your willing to speak to Neil, but after this I wouldn't expect much. Actually from Neil I would, he's nicer than me. I hope he doesn't let you off. I hope you apologize and learn to keep your mouth shut if your not willing to pony up and show proof of what you claim.
CA

 

No, Neil did not send anyone anywhere. We come on our own accord.

And this issue is an ongoing issue happening all the time. I will not die until people realize that this is wrong. Photogs and web designers alike. Read this forum. There are posts saying do it and ask for forgivness later. That's bull and you know it. Maybe this post and thread will make some of the forum realize that these acts are wrong.
CA

 

It seems to me that NONE of you people with under 10 posts have ever worked online before. People rip stuff off others all the time online and once they are caught, most of the time it can be resolved outside of the public eye. I don't trust any comments from anyone with under 10 posts because it seems and probably is true that most of you are friends with this "Neil" guy and just want to start arguments. I am not defending what the OP did, or what her web designer did, but with the email sent to Neil by the web designer, then this should have been directed to the designer. She admitted all guilt for ripping the site, but yet Neil had to make it a point to destroy his competition. Nice way to play the game. i bet if someone looked at his web stats, that they went a little higher than normal because of all this which makes it look like he has just brought himself a little more business or at least more potential for business. As one said earlier, If i came across this on your blog and wanted a wedding photographer, I would never choose you because I know that you cannot even be professional enough to fix issues outside the public eye. Its called Professionalism and most of you could take a crash course in it! Once you start taking things like this public that could have been resolved between each other, you lose all your credibility. It makes me even more sad that you had to get all your friends here to defend you. Just plain sad!! Now once all your newbies start making some legitimate posts around here, your words mean nothing to most of us!

Cory Ann,

We know that the acts are wrong, but that doesnt mean it will stop dishonest web designers from ripping sites. Most people are out in this world for the betterment of themselves and getting as much money as they possibly can! If that means making a website design easier by ripping it, then people will do that. Its a live and learn situation when you want a site designed and that is why you need to be very careful when choosing a good designer. This thread should be getting on the web designers case, not the OPs.

 

A mistake was made, most likely by the designer from what it sounds. When informed, the owner took the development site down, no harm done. What good to anyone is fighting about this doing? Someone once told me that just because you are wrong, doesn't make the other party right!

I had a similar issue with a designer, they took an image from a large company and placed it on our business site. The company contacted us, we removed it immediately and no action was taken. We did however fire the designer.

Fighting on the internet is like winning the special Olympics, you are still retarded.

 

THIS is the first word of apology from Mandy that has been offered.

(Which makes her statement here yet another lie.)

At no point has the web designer done this. She is still insistent that the website is a template, and that the images were royalty free images.

This issue would not have dragged on for this long if the two guilty parties (Mandy and her web designer) had admitted to wrong-doing and immediately rectified it.

Instead, I've been offered a series of lies and contradictions.

 

Mmmmm interesting indeed ....

However I do feel for her, I wonder why she never got a posse together of her own ? Kind of cyber bully tactics going on here ....

I to look at the post count and agree with "overdrive", I mean so what she came here and asked for advice .... big deal.

What's everyone going to do when spiders are crawling your sites daily, many that will be ripping your images and sharing them all over the net - yes even Google is going to do that, are you going to sue them all and send hate mail etc. ?

Look at the large companies like Zoo Weekly, Playboy, FHM, People, Ralph and imagine all the sites ripping their (copy righted) images - do what they do and brand the images with URLs etc. and create viral traffic .... and report the offending sites to the official sites.

Welcome to web2.0.

 

Prior to becoming a photographer I was a software engineer and lived and worked in Silicon Valley, smack dab in the middle of the technological epicenter of the world for 7 years. I have been "online" since 1984 and am intimately familiar with online cultures.

Yes, the larger companies tend to settle out of court because they know they don't have a leg to stand on. She's lucky Neil didn't sue her. Also, "people rip stuff off others all the time" is not a supporting argument fwiw. You think if I went into Best Buy and stole a Wii that they'd be willing to settle out of court based on the argument that "people rip stuff off your store all the time"? No, that wouldn't happen. They'd have me arrested and booked.

Do you realize the fallacious nature of that logic? It's scary to think that you use post count to judge one's character. If Jeffery Skilling or Kenneth Lay were on this forum with 1000 posts each would you trust them? I have not met Neil however I do know that he is very generous with his knowledge and has helped countless numbers of other wedding photographers. He did not request my presence here. I am here to speak out against someone who has wronged wedding photography community as a whole.

Competition??? Neil is in New Jersey, this woman is in Florida.

Professionalism is being responsible for the content on your website.

To the contrary, that Neil has stood up for his rights without resorting to the all American knee jerk reaction of suing someone well, his credibility just went up in my book.

I have a question. You say you don't support what the OP or the OP's contractor did yet, yet despite that you seem to take sides with the OP. You then try to discredit those of us who have come to speak out against someone who is trying to discredit a respected member of the photography community by saying that we can't be trusted because of our low post counts yet the OP only has FOUR posts on this forum. How exactly does that logic work?

Cheers, Joe

 

wow symphony, you sound like you must know how all the internet stuff works since your were a software engineer. My statement about people ripping things off all the time is not an argument, it is fact. You have to know how to deal with it in a reasonable manner. This is not a reasonable manner. If you think this is reasonable, then all forums would be filled with these types of threads and nothing would be accomplished. I dont warrant character by post count but by post quality. Your 2 posts have only defended someone that has acted unprofessionally. Professionalism is not always about taking responsibility for a web designers issue. Have you ever asked someone to design a website for you? It doesn't sound like you have. I know that you have to take responsibility for your actions, but it can be a little tricky to take it for someone else's. Please go ask a design company to make you a photography site and see what happens and where the photos come from. you might be amazed in what you find. In regards to you last question, I do not support what was done, but I still think that Neil has acted unprofessionally and that makes me lean more to the OP's side. As for Neils remark about the web designer not owning up, That email is on your blog man. She told you to take it up with her not the OP. Come on man get real, take this up with the designer.

And for note, it doesn't matter where you are. With the internet everyone is competition in a sense. It can be very easy for the OP to move up to Jersey to start competing directly with Neil if she wanted to, but since Neil has started to ruin her rep it would be hard to do.

 

I have not been sent or referred by Neil. In fact I'd say none of us have been sent or referred by Neil.

Well how did you all arrive here ? and how can you speak for everyone else ?

I came to this forum for one purpose, to chase the OP out into the open. I do not want her to hide or find comfort and aid from others for her actions. She could have backed down when confronted with the evidence against her. The OP could have said that she was sorry and scrapped the site and pulled the stolen and copied visual and text material.

She isn't an animal / rabbit and she can easily walk away from this thread, how exactly are you going to " chase the OP out into the open " ? She has been brave enough to reply and stay active within this thread.

Even in her follow up post she comes off as the victim. She implies that she has been wronged. She seems to completely miss the fact that she had the opportunity to back down and apologize to the person that she stole from. She keeps viewing the actual victim of her actions as the perpetrator and that is not how the world works.

Um I do believe she pulled the site down, there is proper procedures for this : report the issue to the Host and Relevant sites.

Instead of doing the right thing ethically, morally and professionally, the OP came here to drum up support for herself. I won't let her do that and I won't let her trash a colleague. Especially a well respected one.

Well to bad that she has drummed up support, we're not going to say - what she has done is correct, but I will support her against this bullying, what more can be achieved ? she's done all that she can.

 

Let's see

In 1998 I was integral in converting the Discovery Channel Online to an all digital format with the creation of the DCO's Picture of the Day project. Most people were not stealing photos online yet. But the DCO was area of the issue and was already trying to disable "right click" theft.

From 1999 to 2001 I oversaw the conversion of five daily newspapers from film to digital and had a heavy hand in the implementation of the online presentation of the images from the papers being placed online. The parent company aggressively pursued a few of the image thefts. One by a major corporation and another by a political candidate. The publisher of one paper wrote an editorial on the candidate stealing photos on the day the candidate came to town to stump for office. That was obviously done in the public eye.

From 2001 to 2004 I was responsible for the full digital conversion from film to digital of an NCAA Division I university's athletics department. In this role I dealt with the online placement and digital distribution of the university's 20+ NCAA Div I teams. Theft was a huge problem. The university didn't go after students who stole images for personal sites, but they went after other online venues, such as those who stole images to resell them, those who used the images to try and make a financial gain from the images, and a sponsor of the team who used the image on the back of more than 30 of their regional delivery trucks (I know the details of that one as the company stole five images, all five were mine and I was party to settlement).

In the winter of 2002 I lead a team of photographers that switched the Olympic Committee into digital photography during the Winter Games in Salt Lake City. We were the first to provide real daily coverage of the games for the Olympic Committee, without the IOC needing to rely on news agencies to provide imagery. Many of these images were "lifted" and the IOC went after everyone they found using stolen images with a very heavy legal hand.

In 2005 I oversaw the direct digital conversion of five international business magazines, and peripherally implemented the digital conversion of a dozen other magazines owned by the same corporation. In this role I helped changed the use of photography in both print and the online publications. I also had to handle the rights management issues of the images from around two dozen sources each week to make sure we weren't stealing anyone's images.

Along the way I have also worked with other corporations, two pro sports leagues and a few colleges in helping them switch to digital and better using their visual assets online.

So I am well aware of online image theft. I am also equally aware of many companies that have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars/pounds/euros in the process of trying to steal copyrighted images. Additionally I am also aware people make mistakes and that at times out of court settlements are made as well.

To think we are ignorant because we are photographers is completely incorrect. Take a look at my web site and look at the companies I deal with as a photographer, it might give you some further insight to my base of knowledge.


-Steven Frischling
www. fishfotoworldwide. com
fish @ fishfoto.com


PS:
Mocking those in the Special Olympics and those who suffer from mental retardation is very ignorant. It has no bearing on the topic at hand. It is mean, hurtful, spiteful and just out of line. Anyone who uses that kind of comment should be ashamed and should really do some soul searching on why they think it is OK to mock those with a disability of any kind.

 

The site was taken down once the owner was informed of the issue. I fail to see what more is needed.