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Ok what exactly are the Talibans? Are they professionals in Islam or just are followi

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by ST12, May 31, 2009.

  1. #1
    Ok what exactly are the Talibans? Are they the professionals in Islam as they claim to be or just are following things that are not preached in the Koran?

    These guys are fighting for a cause in Pakistan and Afghanistan, where does that cause come from?
    SEMrush
     
    ST12, May 31, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. imad

    imad Peon

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    #2
    I m not professional in Taliban, but I think the cause originally came from foreign existence in their country, this was the cause also for all other groups that were fighting the Late USSR, after USSR got defeated there, the fight became for power, I think it's then when Taliban appeared as a power there, to stop the civil war, and unite Afghanistan, so it's a military group, that were able to take power in Afghanistan and somehow put an end for civil war, that's Taliban, they also followed Shari'a laws,

    that was in a quick but I m not sure about how accurate it is, you need to check online, but to answer your question, about whether they are professionals in Islam or not?

    what do you mean by professionals in Islam? Islam is not a profession.

    but if you mean did they understand the religion of Islam correctly? then I assume yes, for the most of them (by them I mean ruling Taliban not normal people), because its not hard to understand Islam, the question should be, were they following Islam teachings in all their acts?

    for that we need to take each action separately, give me some examples for their acts, and I will try to find whether it was in accordance to Islamic teachings or not.
     
    imad, May 31, 2009 IP
  3. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #3
    I do appreciate your honesty Imad. Not many Muslims here are willing to admit they think the Talban understand the religion of Islam correctly. It is nice to know your thinking on this - it helps put many of your positions in context.
     
    browntwn, May 31, 2009 IP
  4. imad

    imad Peon

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    #4
    you do not have to read behind my posts browntwn because they are very direct, Taliban were almost boycotted by all Islamic countries (except Saudi Arabia for reasons related to religious trip to Mecca and UAE which did not have full diplomatic relations with them) for that same reason I mentioned, they did not follow Islam teachings, in many of their actions,

    that does not mean they do not understand the teachings, they do, but who knows what were they planning next, Taliban were mostly young and ignorant people (Taliban means students) and they were students mostly, so students are young, they know the teachings in theory but when they put them in action, they make mistakes.
     
    imad, May 31, 2009 IP
  5. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #5
    The talibans as far as I know were created by Saudi Arabian sponsors. They paid to create Islamic madrasas in Pakistan at which young boys 5-6 years old from poor families were studying the Koran. They were provided with free food and shelter. They were not alowed to study anything else but the Koran.
    Remember the images of the young boys from Pakistan in the madrasas moving back and forth memorizing the Koran? Those who grew up in those madrasas are now the leaders of the Taliban movement in Pakistan.... and are now fighting the Pakistani army.... It is either their way or death.
    This is what I know, may be there is more to it .....
     
    ST12, May 31, 2009 IP
  6. imad

    imad Peon

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    #6
    there are many aspects in your post:

    first - Saudi sponsored Madrasas (Schools) that teach Quran.
    second - These Madrasas teaches only Quran.
    third - these madrasas graduate Taliban leaders.


    why just make it short on yourself, and say your point directly,

    Quran teach terrorism,

    isn't this what you want to say?

    go ahead, answer the above question, then I will know where the thread is going to so I can give you the answers you wanted (that if there was any)
     
    imad, May 31, 2009 IP
  7. ST12

    ST12 Active Member

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    #7
    I don't beieve the Quran is all about terrorism. .... but obviously some people reading the Quran believe they are obliged to wage a war by all means against the people who they believe are against Islam. Am I right on this?

    These people get their motivation from certain verses in the Quran. I wish all the best to the Muslims and I have often taken the side of the muslims when I believe they have been the oppressed..... I don't devide people to muslims and non muslims.....but I see muslims who devide the world to those who are muslims and those who are not ... and their support goes not to the party that is morally righ, but first to the muslims (no matter righ or wrong) and if both parties are muslims then they try to honestly judge the cituation...... sometimes the same thing goes with another religion .... they are free to do whatever they like..... I don't care as long as they don't bother me with that....


    I am truly sorry for what is happening in Pakistan and Afghanistan .... so many people are victims in the name of What? Allah/God?
    My God does not want his children to kill each other. My God wants people to live in peace and to help each other.
     
    ST12, Jun 4, 2009 IP
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  8. gauharjk

    gauharjk Well-Known Member

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    #8
    I appreciate your candor ST12. Your questions are legitimate.

    Islam is a very peaceful religion. It teaches tolerance & coexistence with others. It demands you pay charity to the poor, help the needy, to be your neighbour's keeper. It promotes brotherhood. It unites people of different races, cultures, elasticities, languages into one. It promised rights to women at a time when women were considered mere tools of pleasure. It banned slavery and female infanticide when these things were prevalent in the world. It created a prosperous Empire when the western world was languishing in the Dark ages.

    But what I observe is extremism and intolerance in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia. :(

    But there are extremists in every religion, aren't they?

    Extremism and intolerance is not the Islamic way. But thats how the world is... Even I am disappointed by the narrow-mindedness of people. What they need is more exposure to the diverse world, better education. Only then would their minds open. We need real change...................
     
    gauharjk, Jun 5, 2009 IP
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  9. Barti1987

    Barti1987 Well-Known Member

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    #9
    People in most part of Asia have an invalid understanding of Islam. This is mainly because they converted to Islam without people teaching them the right way.

    It will take some time until Muslims in such places to understand Islam the correct way. The same was true for Muslims in the Middle East post-imperialism, but given some decades, they corrected themselves.

    Peace,
     
    Barti1987, Jun 5, 2009 IP
  10. imad

    imad Peon

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    #10
    When did you purchase your God?
    I think my God is better than your God, in fact my God can beat your God.. :p

    Kid.. man created many Gods, God who created man is one.
     
    imad, Jun 5, 2009 IP
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  11. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #11
    I dont think many Muslims believe that the taliban represent moderate muslims. Werent they on the cia payroll in the 80's when it served our purpose:rolleyes:.

    Another 1953 iran?:rolleyes:

    When they were fighting the soviets nothing much was known about them. As soon as they turned on their payers, everyone found out about them in the west. What afganistan needs is another mossadegh style president, not the taliban or another oil representative:rolleyes:
     
    pingpong123, Jun 6, 2009 IP
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  12. praveen2087

    praveen2087 Peon

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    #12
    Talibans as matter of fact have nothing to do with Islam .They aren't following anything from the Quaran but they are trying to promote themselves as representatives of Islam.
     
    praveen2087, Jun 6, 2009 IP
  13. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #13
    While it is true that America, and many other nations, have provided logistical support to all kinds of insurgency groups and dictators to create a desired effect, I believe you are wrong on the Taliban. I'm fairly certain they arrived on the scene to fill the power vacuum left when the USSR pulled out. The CIA training provided to the Mujaheddin focused on guerrilla tactics to be used against an occupying force, not use of religion to suppress and control a civilian population. I also have no use for the logic that says someone else's war cause against us is justified because we once felt justified in a cause for war. That is essentially self loathing, a trait possessed by the genetically doomed.
     
    Obamanation, Jun 6, 2009 IP
  14. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #14
    i have found the most interesting article. it is amazing. i do not know if it is true or just a joke. i can not wrap my thoughts around this at all.
    please read the article and post any comment that you have here.
    i really find this mind blowing. unbelievable. wow wow wow wow
    http://www.momentmag.com/Exclusive/2007/2007-04/200704-Taliban.html wow wow wow wow
     
    pizzaman, Jun 6, 2009 IP
  15. Naughty Son

    Naughty Son Peon

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    #15
    This looks too complicated. i thought the Taliban were plain terrorists who twisted relegion to kill people.
     
    Naughty Son, Jun 7, 2009 IP
  16. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #16
    Thanks for these gems.
     
    browntwn, Jun 7, 2009 IP
  17. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #17
    Occupying force? You mean like the soviets having puppets in power? Or was that a unical guy;). They trained most of these people there now. They knew they were religious extremists and didnt care. We had the short term care of kicking out the soviets and we didnt care what happened after they left. The pandoras box was opened. We should never arm a potentially dangerous foe. You think we were in afganistan in the 80's because we cared for the innocent afganis that were tortured under the taliban rule after? Its all about oil and power. When the syrian air force invaded lebanon in the late 80's and threw out general aoun did one person in our government speak up????????? NO, and you know why? Because there was no oil and it wasnt beneficial to our strategic interests.

    When are we going to open our eyes?
    If we really cared about afganistan we would help them not only in their fight against these extremists that he helped to arm and train, but we would also let the afgani people elect their own leaders after the taliban are defeated. Not install another advisor from yet another oil company.
     
    pingpong123, Jun 7, 2009 IP
  18. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Facts? Quotations from credible sources supporting this statement?

    True, but not sure what that has to do with the Taliban.

    Sorry bro, no oil in Afghanistan. Try again. Try on the idea that we were taking a swipe at the real enemy we had been at war with during Vietnam.

    Standard fare. We watched Rwanda chop millions of their own into pieces with machetes while at the same time we sent troops to intervene in Bosnia. Was it a racist thing? Why get involved in Bosnia? I'm not sure if you saw the impact oil prices had on our economy in 2007, but you should hope our government does what it takes to keep the oil economy stable.


    Let me guess, you are one of those guys who equates Obama's serving on the board of a company with a self proclaimed terrorist as evidence he is a terrorist? Many if not most people worth having as leaders will have things on their resume tying them to one big business or another.

    Back on topic, the Taliban didn't take power until 1994. Too say we made the Taliban by training the mujahideen, would be like saying the US marine corp created the Democratic party because they currently work for Barack Obama. Its complete crap.You'd do better trying to connect Osama Bin Laden to US training, and even there, the ties are currently pretty flimsy with the currently available documentation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maktab_al-Khadamat

    If you want to blame the US for something you can blame the US for abandoning Afghanistan after the conflict ended, leaving it to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to rape and pillage.

    "Once the Soviets withdrew US interest in Afghanistan also ended. The US decided not to help with reconstruction of the country and instead handed over its interests in the country to its allies: Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Pakistan quickly took advantage of their new charitable opportunity and forged relations with warlords and later the Taliban to secure trade interests and routes. From wiping out the country's trees through logging practices, which has destroyed all but 2% of forest cover country-wide, to substantial uprooting of wild pistachio trees for the exportation of their roots for therapeutic uses, to opium agriculture, the past ten years have formed permanent ecological and agrarian destruction that Afghanistan may never recover from"


    Fertile ground for any corrupt organization to form in. Interesting that the same people who crucify the US for this debacle have no problem crucifying our current Adminstration for not abandoning Iraq more quickly. It seems you could support one position or the other but not both.
     
    Obamanation, Jun 7, 2009 IP
  19. hostlonestar

    hostlonestar Peon

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    #19
    YEs. In the past the US has made many bone headed moves to further our strategic interests. And some that I really just don't see why we did. I can see arming the Taliban and training them to fight against the USSR. That had a strategic implication in it.

    What I don't see is things like overthrowing a democratic government in Iran. That was the most retarded thing the US has done in the past 100 years.

    Iraq is a lost cause and is more expensive than it is worth. The only reason (IMO, not the official opinion of the US Government or any entities belonging to them) that we are still in IRaq is a stepping stone into Iran. I'm sorry, but, that is not a valid reason.

    I saw on the news the other day that there will still be troops in Iraq even after 2012, even though the written agreement is to withdraw by then. :rolleyes:. Great president we have huh? Hasn't fulfilled any of his promises.
     
    hostlonestar, Jun 7, 2009 IP
  20. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #20
    Iraq could have been made worthwhile if we either:
    a) setup permanent bases to keep a leash on Iran
    or
    b) setup permanent, or at least 10 year, strategic oil contracts to lessen Saudi Arabia/Venezuela/OPEC's ability to impact our economy.

    Frankly, I just cant see the national interest upside of going in to depose a dictator, even if he was drinking the blood of babies. If the UN needed to enforce directives that had been shirked for the previous 10 years, France, Britain, Germany, Russia, and China could have lead the way and picked up the bill.
     
    Obamanation, Jun 8, 2009 IP