Obama urges Israel to open Gaza borders

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by browntwn, Jan 22, 2009.

  1. amanamission

    amanamission Notable Member

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    #21
    Actually, I think the religious fanatic angle is overplayed. Even Hamas would accept terms of peace if it actually looked like they had won a fair shake for their people. Revolutionary movements evolve into political structures when that's the better deal.

    I'm not sure Israel is ready to do what it needs for peace. The entire policy had been slanted toward a starve-and-raid policy.

    I have given up on the two-state solution. The space is too small, and the borders too random. Anyhow, Israel intends to re-annex these areas once the Palestinian presence is crushed. (As is demonstrated by the illegal West Bank settlements.)

    Instead of ghettoizing these people, they must be made fully empowered citizens of a new state...one which guarantees separation of religion from government and protection for all races, as well as right of return for Palestian refugees.

    With nearly equal numbers, the new state would consist of representatives of both Arabs and Jews (and even some of other faiths, as well as none.)

    Calling it Israel and using the Star of David would not be appropriate. Personally, I think Palestine would be a good name, but this would probably be a deal-breaker.

    I say let's call it Phoenicia again. The flag can be letters sailing on a boat.

    Or perhaps, "Caanastein?"
     
    amanamission, Jan 23, 2009 IP
  2. imad

    imad Peon

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    #22
    as I said, this is encouraging and hopefully it will be the start for completely end the illegal occupation,

    while reading some of the replies, I remembered something I did not mention before, about the blockade and being used to stop smuggling weapons and the bluh bluh lame excuses used by the illegal state of Israel ...

    there is only one crossing between Gaza strip and other countries else than the illegal state of Israel which is Gaza-Egypt crossing of Rafah, the rest are between Gaza strip and the illegal state of Israel, sea and sky are also controlled by Israel, so if they want to set a blockade because of the smuggling, they would block that crossing between Gaza and Egypt, and allow the flow of fuel, basic supplies, food, people movements ...etc on the other crossings,

    this is a proof that the blockade was nothing except a collective punishment for the people of Gaza for voting for Hamas, and this is because Hamas refuses peace according to their terms.

    ( in short peace according to the illegal state of Israel means no end for occupation )

    any talk about weapons smuggling, or rockets firing is irrelevant since this starvation for the people of Gaza been going on without stop since long, not even during the cease-fire it stopped, and that it been planned long ago, when an Israeli terrorist (Dov Weisglass - Olmert's advisor) said on March 2006:

     
    imad, Jan 23, 2009 IP
  3. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #23
    You have made your view quite clear. You have great trust in Hamas, and none in Israel. Even though it is Israel who has managed to have a solid peace with its other neighbors and it is Hamas who has never shown a peaceful overture to any party - even their fellow Palestinians. It is pretty clear that Hamas has no intention of letting Israelis and Jews live in peace. With people like you cheering them on I fear they will never move from terrorist to statesmen.
     
    browntwn, Jan 23, 2009 IP
  4. amanamission

    amanamission Notable Member

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    #24
    This is why:
    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1194867
     
    amanamission, Jan 23, 2009 IP
  5. RightMan

    RightMan Notable Member

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    #25
    I sincerely hope that better sense prevails on both the sides and this mass killings of precious human lives comes to an end asap....

    This gruesome clash has carried on....for too long...:(

    Regards,

    RightMan
     
    RightMan, Jan 23, 2009 IP
  6. aletheides

    aletheides Banned

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    #26
    Yes, at that time there was.

    No rockets were fired during that 4 month period. Whatever reason they have for breaking the truce, it was still broken. If the reason is true or not is difficult to tell considering the sources.

    lol how wrong could your post be in a row?

    Talking about a different cease fire...
     
    aletheides, Jan 24, 2009 IP
  7. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #27
    This would be an awesome point if it weren't complete BS.

    There were about 26 Rockets and Mortar Shells fired during the four months.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7500322.stm

    http://www.shabak.gov.il/SiteCollectionImages/english/TerrorInfo/Sept_Monthly_Summary_2008-en.pdf

    http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_and_mortar_attacks_in_Israel_in_2008


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    Senior Hamas official, Nizar Rayyan, before he got killed:

    "The only reason to have a hudna is to prepare yourself for the final battle. We don't need 50 years to prepare ourselves for the final battle with Israel." There is no chance, he said, that true Islam would ever allow a Jewish state to survive in the Muslim Middle East. "Israel is an impossibility. It is an offense against God."
     
    LogicFlux, Jan 24, 2009 IP
  8. aletheides

    aletheides Banned

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    #28
    Interesting link you've provided. I stand corrected, it looks like there were rockets fired during the truce between Israel and Hamas, but not from Hamas.

     
    aletheides, Jan 24, 2009 IP
  9. F33l1ngz

    F33l1ngz Peon

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    #29
    And you really think someone can shoot rockets toward Israel from Gaza without Hamas approving it? If so, you're living in a dream.
     
    F33l1ngz, Jan 24, 2009 IP
  10. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #30

    I don't know if Hamas claimed responsibility for any of them. I know that for some of the attacks, nobody claimed responsibility.
    The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility for some and they've been known to carry out attacks with Hamas before.
    Whoever is in charge of gaza needs to be responsible for terror groups operating inside their borders.
     
    LogicFlux, Jan 24, 2009 IP
  11. aletheides

    aletheides Banned

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    #31
    There are independent groups not directly under Hamas authority. Judging from your posts, you're the one that's been doing a lot of dreaming :D

    It's true. I saw from that article that the two who shot at least 1 of those rockets were arrested by Hamas. Punishment was probably nothing, but who knows. They might not like other groups trying to undermine their control.
     
    aletheides, Jan 24, 2009 IP