Correct. Obama can only print dollars. The FED doesn't print money. It's printed at the The Bureau of Engraving and Printing - Department of the Treasury -- http://www.moneyfactory.gov/ However, it is possible for local governments to print money and some are doing it. http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-05-scrip_N.htm
Uhhh... Not gonna argue. In the Constitution. The Treasury designs plates, paper and applies ink to paper, they do not let the Executive Branch (the President for instance) to just print money. We would be bankrupt in less than 5 years if every idiot that sat in the Whitehouse could just sit around and print money all day. For real. (Man, would that be a great job or what?) The Federal Reserve has to back it up before money can be authorized for printing. You are claiming that some congressman or sitting president can go around and order the printing of money. Doesn't happen. Federal Reserve Notes are printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP), a bureau of the Department of the Treasury.[4] The Federal Reserve Banks pay the BEP not only the cost of printing the notes (about 4¢ a note), but to circulate the note as new currency rather than merely replacing worn notes, they must pledge collateral for the face value, primarily in Federal securities. H.E.L.L.O Earth to Bogart! It's way more involved than this little Wiki blurb here. But dig in your pocket and look at the top of the bill... "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE" And they call them that why? Come on Bogart.... Please. Stop already you're killing me! A State can print some certificate, hell... They can secede from the Union and print all the money they want to. But it won't be Legal Tender anywhere but in that state. Don't believe EVERYTHING you read on the Internet. Or, at least read the whole thing and the small print too. (Just funnin' with you buddy, you know that right? )
The US Government gives trillions in treasuries to the Federal Reserve and spends money like a drunken sailor. Vice President Joe Biden said Sunday that "everyone guessed wrong" on the impact of the economic stimulus. There was little stimilus in the $1 trillion Obama failure. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090614/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_biden_stimulus
Of course the OBIDENDUMBAMA stimulus consisted of spending money we don't have, rather than letting those of us that earn it, keep it and spend it ourselves. Had Obama ever been off welfare, he would have known this.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is proposing to completely eliminate welfare in response to a $24 billion deficit. California will run out of money by July 28th and the deadline is near.
How on earth a state that large with that many wealthy people can be in such peril is beyond all comprehension. Eliminating welfare is step on. Step two should be reducing spending on stupid shit.
I'm glad CA is in massive debt, I hope they stay that way for a long time. Let it be a shrine to stupidity, let it show the entire country that liberalism is a mental disorder. You can't punish businesses without punishing the people and California is going to have to learn that lesson the hard way. I say let the states compete against each other, and then we'll look at the type of government the most successful states have.
Wow that's some pretty far stretched spin there bogus. So your answer to my explaining to you that you were wrong and that the health care coverage would still cost people money is that because they don't pay taxes they will be getting free health care?? What part of the health care coverage will cost money don't you understand? No matter what they pay or don't pay in taxes they will still have to PAY for the health care coverage just like everyone else. Hence it will not be free. The fact that you are sitting here trying to argue that something that costs money is free goes to your credibility sir. I (still....) haven't heard the answer as to what the free market is going to do to fix health care if Obama doesn't. I still haven't heard what it has EVER done in ALL of history to help fix it and why we should believe the conservatives telling us it will do it now. Can someone answer that?.... anyone.....? Please?? I mean we are talking about the same free market that tried to stop medicare back in the 50's and 60's. But hey they are good guys and profit isn't their bottom line or anything. Nation building is... right?
Are you saying that this "health reform" is just forcing us, as individuals, to pay for something we may not even want to pay for? What the hell sense does that make? Oh do I have the treat for you. Read from post 87 to 89 and find out the mystery that stumped everyone. So far not much of an argument against it.
I'm at a loss. I don't really know how many times Obama has to say that if you are happy with you present plan, your doctors, your hospital, that you can keep it. This is just an alternative for the rest of us. Do you actually have a full grasp of what Obama's plan entails? I can't believe that you do and still make a statement like "forcing us, as individuals, to pay for something we may not even want to pay for". Argument against what? This?. Why didn't you just link to that instead of the thread? The argument against that is a really simple one. It's known by many names. It's been called greed, human nature, and even "reality". The reality is that free market folks like to paint a pretty picture of what free market can do. I'm all for that. I am not fully anti-free-market. I absolutely believe that the free market of the past is why we enjoy a lot of what we have today. Fair enough. But what I am is a person who realizes that completely open unregulated free market opens itself up to what I described above. Why do you think the TARP money takers are now so much in a rush to give that money back? They want to get out from under government regulation and get back to the good old days of collecting $10MILLION dollar bonuses. What's wrong with that? It's pretty obvious our economy is on it's way back up now that the government has stepped in. You can argue that till you're blue in the face but a fact is a fact. Your free market heroes (big corporations) want to go back to the way things were. I'll spell out the point I'm getting at here.... All that talk sounds great, but the fact is that free markets have had all of American history to do it. It's not that it can't be done. It's that too many people are getting rich making sure that health care reform doesn't get done. You see what I'm saying? You can turn it all over to the free market and tell them to save health care. They'll make great public announcements but in their private boardrooms and desktop meetings they'll be looking at it as an opportunity to increase their bottom lines. Nothing against them for that. That's literally what they exist for. So I'll ask again because you didn't actually answer my question and proceeded to do what all conservatives do when asked for an alternative solution to health care. Just say Obama's plan is wrong and talk about teh glorious beacon that is free markets without giving a specific answer as to how realistically the free market can fix health care. Not some great rosy picture painted without the slightest reference given to how you're actually going to get large health insurance companies to do ANYTHING but what they are doing right now.
I don't have a full grasp of what it entails, it seems like it keeps changing and I don't like following the news, gets depressing. I only know about the theory, or foundation of what it entails, and it is retarded. I should know the details, you're right, but again it's too depressing. In case you wanted to see how it was received by everyone else. Which seemed like bewilderment to me. Ughh, here we go again. Corporations are an entity of the state. They would never exist in a free-market. Corporations and government are in bed together. Your buddy Barack is giving all these fat cats money and keeping the greed propped up, don't tell me about greed on one hand then support the guy that keeps greed alive on the other. Conservatives, libertarians do not favor big corporations. We favor the little guy. Liberals hate the little guy which is why they love regulations. I reckon there was once a time health care was too cheap and doctors "weren't getting paid enough", so government kindly stepped in and helped out.. It's working! If you want to hear an alternative then you need to switch gears out of your coo-coo progressive philosophy and way of looking at the world for a minute . With liberals it's.. "quick there's a problem, find a quick simple fix that will work immediately, RIGHT NOW. It doesn't have to always work or even make sense just MAKE IT WORK RIGHT NOW OMG!" If you want to fix something you have to know the nature of the problem, it's roots, and how the ideal system is supposed to function. This is one reason the newer generations came out heavy for Obama, they don't know how to fix anything.. lawnmowers, cars, sinks, financial matters, etc. Myself, I would be willing to compromise some things in the short term because I'm relatively pragmatic, and no philosophical side will ever have complete power, especially not mine. But I have severe doubts that the left would ever want to open up that market so that real competition can take place. We're not even discussing this idea at the national level, it's all about the short-term bandaid that the left wants.
I am in total agreement. Half (actually 80%) of those on welfare are too lazy to get a job. And thanks to the Government those who are on it and would like to get off cannot because it is designed to keep you poor. And we keep hearing that the demorcrats are there for the poor.
It's great and all, but you STILL are forced by the government to have health insurance. The law will require you too. I talked to my mom about it, she doesn't have health insurance right now. But, guess what she is planning on doing when this law passes? Riding the system. you get fined for not having health care under this plan. Yeah, that makes sense. People that already struggle enough as it is (she works 2 jobs and can barely keep afloat because of the rising costs of everything) now are going to be forced to pay for something else. It's not like car insurance, where the solution is don't have a car. You can't not have a life.
There's a lot of slack in the system. You wonder how the poor can afford $500 ipods and $80 a month to pay for the service plan. The poor also find the money to pay their cable bill, through birthday parties costing thousands, gold jewlery etc. Even crackheads find the money to buy crack. Interesting thread. BRUm made a good point that the system we have is a free market system. The American Medical Association restricts the number of medical schools and number of seats. The government makes mandates and regulations. The highest costs are the primary care. A doctors visit should cost somewhere around $75. But for people with healthplans to negociate the rate, it may cost as much as $250. Even to get a prescription you need to pay a doctor. Another issue is the cost of malpractice which adds billions to the cost of healthcare. Catastrophic Health Insurance (High Deductible Health Plan) usually costs around $3000. The costs shoots up to $9000 for a normal health insurance policy. (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2006/12/13/most-could-afford-catastrophic-health-coverage.html) As I understand it, the plan is to tax private health insurance to subsidise health insurance for the poor. It's just an extension of the current system where 40% of the people pay taxes to benifit the 60% that don't. Margaret Thatcher said that socialism will only work as long as you can tax the other guy to pay for it. California is the poster child for the socialist blue state. They have a $24 billion deficit. A couple of months ago California got $31 billion in Obama stimilus and proceeded to smoke it up. California voters are getting tired and refuse to vote for any tax increases.
Don't forget about taxing the private employers that elect to provide private insurance to their employees. They get taxed on the health care they provide. Which, in essence, will drive down the amount of private businesses providing health care to their employees, which will in turn cause the government to have to pay more. That equals more tax money, not less, being spent, all because of herr obama.
Ah, guys... sorry to burst your bubble, but we private business owners ALREADY pay tax on our health insurance, as do our employees that we provide it to. INCOME TAX!!! That's right, for years now I have been reaching into my own pocket to pay for my own health insurance and at the end of the year I pay income tax on my health insurance. We provide 100% of our employees health insurance again, out of pocket, and our employees end up paying income tax on that. Now, if Obama had half a brain in his dumb head he would give people like me and my employees a tax credit/break instead of taxing us. In other words, instead of paying tax on "x" thousands of dollars per years I would in effect be able to deduct "x" thousands of dollars per year, or in reality "X" tens of thousands per year. I would be in a far better position to provide benefits to more NEW employees, and myself than I am now, as would millions of small businesses. I do not see this happening when we have a fucking idiot for a president.
Obama has a big problem with California. California will meltdown in 55 days when it runs out of cash. Obama knows if it sends U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner to bail them out, his popularity is going to tank. White House says no to California budget help http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090616/us_nm/us_california_whitehouse
I don't follow. Conservatives and libertarians are for the little guy and liberals are for big corporate America? I'd really like to see some of your conservative buddies jump in and back that theory. Libertarians maybe, but conservatives?? I've got well over half a nation that disagrees with you. They were looking for populist leadership during the past 2 election cycles. Republican conservatives were voted out in droves. You can apply the age old argument that the evil liberal media brainwashed them all. But you and I know that is a copout. Especially considering that if that were true, and the media were that powerful conservatives would never see the inside of the capitol building or the White House. Not true. Inflated medical costs are due to America being the leader when it comes to R&D for new medicines and breakthroughs. All that R&D and drug testing costs money. All that new medical equipment costs money. The medical field is to America what IT is becoming to India. It's our golden egg. People are dependent on it just like they are becoming dependent on IT. The free market does what it always does when it has a product that people don't just want, but need. Price gouge and blame the government while raking in record profits. Oil anyone? Pfizer anyone? Ahh but all you've done here is show a lack of understanding of what we're discussing here. I mean come on dude, I even bolded the word realistically for you. A) I rejected what you linked to not because it would take a long time, but because as I painfully and carefully tried to break it down to high school level and explain to you, it flat out ignored the fact that it isn't realistic due to human greed. B) lol you can make fun of liberals' desire to help people who need help NOW all you like. In fact, I beg you to write as many conservative politicians as you can and ask them to make that their platform in 2010 and 2012. Don't vote for the liberals, they want to help you now! You'll be long dead by the time our plan works out (if it ever does). And if it doesn't that's ok, we'll be long gone too so keeping those promises won't be important. I hear what you're saying by trying to paint Obama's plan as bad and have that be your only argument. Your problem is I'm just not allowing you folks to get away with that. Post a viable alternative solution or shut up and sit in the corner This coming from the guy who just admitted he doesn't know all the details of Obama's plan yet is here bashing it, and without a viable alternative to boot. Wow... just wow. Again, all I'm asking is for you free market folks to give one viable alternative that doesn't involve just turning the free market loose on itself and hoping for the best... Because you do realize that anything short of that is asking the government to get involved don't you? Ok that question was loaded. Try this one.... What has happened in all of American history and given your knowledge of how corporations operate, that allows you to believe that the medical industry will do ANYTHING but continue to eating it's own tail and causing the rollercoaster bubble effect that it has throughout American history? Because make no mistake folks. That's the core of what a "true" free market is. It allows businesses to be free to make money as it sees fit without regard for the greater good. It's an every man for himself environment where the person who controls a given commodity is allowed to rape it for every cent he can causing a bubble. That bubble periodically bursts and we are left with market crashes, depressions, recessions, and so on. You don't have to take my word for it. Simply look at history. Throughout this post I've given you direct examples of what I'm talking about and you've given me rhetoric. And see you're right. The left does not want to open up and deregulate everything, not because we're guessing what will happen but because we KNOW what will happen. Anyone who has ever played the board game Monopoly knows. You're so interested in "letting that real competition take place" that you have forgotten to stop and think what happens when someone wins! It's called a monopoly my friend, and thanks to anti-trust laws, Microsoft doesn't dominate the OS market and we have a choice. Another clear example of how government intervention achieved what you are claiming a free market will. It keeps it fair. And we need that because an unregulated free market is like a game without rules. And without rules the free market has ZERO incentive to do anything but profit by any means necessary, country be damned. In an unregulated free market my company is my country. Now, to end I have to point out that I am not completely anti-free-market. I'd like to see the market be as free as possible as long as it doesn't affect our growth as a nation as a whole. We can all be successful and grow to become the mightiest nation on earth financially to go along with our military might. But if every time the government does something to take us towards that goal corporations can whine (and lobby) and stop it from happening while having suckers like you fall for it believing they are looking out for you and not their bottom line, well, it'll never happen. But back to my question. What is the free market going to do about the 60% of bankruptcies in America due to health care? How is the free market going to make it so I can continue working for myself and not have to get a job just so I can have employer supported health insurance? Because the alternative is a about $1,000/month for a 3 person family.