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Not a Single Republican Votes for Obama $1 Trillion Stimulus

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by bogart, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. aletheides

    aletheides Banned

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    #21
    When the economy is down, don't forget to cut its throat with measures like these
    SEMrush
     
    aletheides, Jan 29, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #22
    As I understand it, the republicans don't want less spending in this bill, they just want it directed towards others things. I think the republicans are right on this one.
     
    LogicFlux, Jan 29, 2009 IP
  3. smatts9

    smatts9 Active Member

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    #23
    "Stimulus", if you can call it that, never works. Stimulus is a good spin on the word debt.

    With this new "stimulus" package he is trying throw an HDTV into every living room and a condom into every hand.

    Isn't it also nice that Congress moves as fast as a fucking cheetah when it comes to spending taxpayer money?

    People expect the government to provide for jobs, food, healthcare, retirement, etc. and then turn around and wonder how it got so damn big and why it is in every corner of all our lives. Expecting the government to do all this is stupid and rings loudly of communism/socialism/etc. This is what the stimulus does, grows the government's, specifically the federal's, power and reach into our lives while recklessly leeching off our future production through debt financing it all.

    This doesn't end well. Like with the 30's it took us WW2 to get out of the depression and the government grew tremendously in size and power.
     
    smatts9, Jan 29, 2009 IP
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  4. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #24
    I agree they should spend all 1 trillion on the HDTV's. Watch me some goddamn O'Reilly!
     
    ncz_nate, Jan 29, 2009 IP
  5. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #25
    We need infrastructure work anyway. This seems like as good of a time as any to do it. The problem with our government and our people isn't spending, it's spending on stupid shit.
    This isn't the time for dems to try to be pushing through all the tradiational types of dem stuff. If Obama wants to be the bipartisan president of pragmatism, he should lay the smack down on them and criticize them as he criticized the wall street firms for giving bonuses to their execs.
     
    LogicFlux, Jan 29, 2009 IP
  6. PioneerGold

    PioneerGold Well-Known Member

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    #26
    We need to just go ahead, drop the pretense, and call this country

    The United Socialist States of America or USSA.

    Has a certain ring to it, doesn't it?
     
    PioneerGold, Jan 29, 2009 IP
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  7. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #27
    What's funny is even Putin is warning us of socialism/communism.
     
    ncz_nate, Jan 29, 2009 IP
  8. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #28
    Let's put politics aside. There's 35,000 registered lobbyists in Washington. 65for every member of Congress. (source Mike Huckabee)

    The issue is that Washington is rotten. Congress is trying to push through a trillion dollar spending package that has little stimulus and mostly is general spending. The problem is that the banks will need another $2 trillion dollar bailot.

    Roubini: U.S. Banking System Insolvent, Another $2.5T of Losses Coming


    In a report last week, Goldman Sachs estimated that financial institutions and investors worldwide will ultimately absorb $2 trillion in losses on U.S. loans -- but have recognized only half those losses so far.
    http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticke...sses-Coming?tickers=XLF,C,BAC,JPM,MS,WFC,^DJI

    For the Jack Welch comments, I saw a couple interviews with him on msnbc and fox.

    Donald Trump is saying that the US should nationalize the Banks and sort out the mess. Down the road we can sell them back to the public.

    It is starting to make sense. How can the US keep sending trillions to Wall Street, thesame people that created the mess.

    Turbo Tax Geithner met with the administration's top officials and advisers in recent days, trying to finish a plan to overhaul the $700 billion bailout program that is already half gone. Geithner previously said the administration is weighing the possibility of using a government-run "bad bank" to buy up toxic assets that are weighing on the books of financial institutions, but some officials now say that option is gone because of potential costs.

    The 'Bad Bank' solution is the biggest piece of bs out there. The US taxpayper takes all the bad assets and pays the bills. This is where Donald Trump is making sense.

    FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair is pushing to run the operation, which would buy the toxic assets that are clogging the balance sheets of banks. Bloomberg reports Bair is arguing that her agency has expertise and could help finance the effort by issuing bonds guaranteed by the FDIC.

    I've heard reports that Geitner is trying to push through a weekend deal.
     
    bogart, Feb 1, 2009 IP
  9. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #29
    Bogart:

    I'd love to see tough laws radically reducing lobbying. I think people should take the money out of politics. Drastically reduce the time for campaigning and fund politics through the govt. Take private money out of it.

    Both parties are basically against that. Both parties move legislation and spending to their pet groups.

    This is a brutal downward spiral. Its an ugly moving target and their are no smart guys who have all the answers. The ironic thing is that American spending rates are increasing right now....when this economy mostly depends on consumer spending. That is worsening the downward spiral problem. Continuing drops in housing prices are increasing the number of foreclosures increasing the loss in asset value, and the population is increasingly accepting of accepting this as an alternative. More problems.

    I'm of the opinion that govt should throw money into the problem...the question is where and how. It could throw it in with direct spending it could throw it in through tax cuts. Who knows? Govt debt is not as severe as financial institution debt and personnel debt.--at least at this point in time.

    Funny thing is that besides the typical political crap that comes out of the mouths of politicians on both sides....nobody has any real hard good answers.

    I own some real estate including some commercial. Here is the rub. Right now I have no idea of its value. There are no sales occurring in this market for these kinds of properties (and they are pretty good). No Sales.-> means no sense of value. I guess the stuff peaked in 2006/maybe 2007.

    Meanwhile cash flow is great. I expect to see problems this year with tenants having problems/maybe vacancies--we will see. I can weather those storms. Frankly if folks with heavy leverage go down I'd pick up certain properties with which I have familiarity...I'll be patient.

    I read some sick stuff about commercial lending recently. I expect that commercial real estate loans that were banded together and securitized and sold is going to take a hit in the next couple of years for a couple of reasons.

    1. There was a surge of 5-7 year interest only refinancing done over the last couple of years before the market tanked.

    2. The retail market is going to take serious hits.

    3. With all the firings and retrenching going on the office markets are going to take some hits also. In this market now, few office tenants are expanding, hardly any are moving--most are renegotiating leases to stay where they are. I'm sure vacancy will start rising in the office markets--and the big Washington DC office market will probably be less subject to hits than most urban markets in the country.

    Once the commercial real estate collateralized loans start moving downward--and holdings lose value for the big investment companies--it will add a whole new heap of problems on the financial institution world.

    Oh man....this is giving me a headache.
     
    earlpearl, Feb 2, 2009 IP
  10. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #30
    The spending package that was passed by the house is a waste of money. I'd like to see the military get new tanks and humvees. The life span of heavy military equipment is something like 40 years. At the same time we can put Detroit to work. All the used equipment in the Middle East can be sold at a discount to Iraq and Afganistan. Strength the local forces will allow us to pull more troops out. The Missisppi River infrastructure needs approx $35 billion in improvements so that we can expand exports. While we are at it, we can also rebuild New Orleans.


    The President has been meeting with Wall Street Bankers to discuss creating a bad bank to buy the toxic assets. The big problem is how to value this stuff.

    There also appears to be a move to force the banks to accept principal reduction. I'm wondering what will happen when the borrowers can't afford to pay the reduced principal.
     
    bogart, Feb 2, 2009 IP
  11. maverick123

    maverick123 Peon

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    #31
    :D.........Count me in dude.........
     
    maverick123, Feb 4, 2009 IP
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  12. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #32
    I'm not doing this, but a friend of mine has been buying portfolio's of defaulted homes.

    He bought them at huge discounts off where the values were pre default days.

    He bought them at significant discounts where value seems to be today.

    To date I suspect he has sold off about 20% of what he bought starting this past October.

    Over 90% are deals where he is the subprime lender. He is getting cash on less than 10%. I think he is getting cash at about 3 times the average price he paid. He is selling the homes w/ mortgages at roughly 5-8 times his average price of purchase.

    He has significant costs of operation including marketing/selling the properties and collecting on (servicing) the mortgages. Its gonna be a long haul business for him.

    Meanwhile the carrying costs or monthly mortgage debt is damn great....sort of what a lease on a reasonably upscale car might be. Can't beat that for buying a home.....so long as you have a job and an income.

    As the crash has hit, I fell back to past experience when the commercial real estate markets collapsed 1989 and beginning of the 90's. My memory and experience suggested being able to start buying at 25% of pre crash value. My friend is buying homes at way below that basis.

    If you are going to buy assets at a low price....I doubt if anyone has good evidence to know where and at what level the market hits bottom.

    The downturn is a rolling ugly landslide at present. I go back to what Boehner said.....
    There is no model to know where to buy.
     
    earlpearl, Feb 4, 2009 IP
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  13. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #33
    If you don't support President Obama then you are an Anti-American! :)
     
    Zibblu, Feb 4, 2009 IP
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  14. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #34
    Congress and Obama are trying to push through the stimulus package before the truth comes out about the banks.

    The banks will need at least $2.5 trillion.

    Geitner is trying to push through tarp III over the weekend. This is supposed to be a plan on Monday.

    What we need to do is put everything on the table at the same time.

    You can say that again. I have thrown all the models at the window. The bottom line is that you don't know how to put a price on the asset. The buildings I have seen, look good on paper. But once you start to get digest it, there is no value.

    One building that I have been watching was $307k in Oct. The building had one tenant renting a 3BR apartment for $1350. The building is now vacant and the asking price has decreased to $260k. The real price on an apartment is more like $1050.

    Taxes are running around $8500 and with insurance etc approx 1/3 of income.

    The net income after interest is approx $400 a month with no margin for repairs and vacancy.
     
    bogart, Feb 6, 2009 IP