Niche Directories

Note that Edwin is utilizing scripted links so as to not give PR to any of the niche directories which he is using to build content for his site.

 

Will.Spencer: "Note that Edwin is utilizing scripted links so as to not give PR to any of the niche directories which he is using to build content for his site."
Both PR and Link hording! Both I consider poor practices. Of course PR doesn't really matter any more but you don't get link pop off scripts like that either.

"And then from there they were sent from one person to another in an e-mail, and then posted on a forum, and then compiled into another list, and then, and then, and then..."
I think the concept of thinking you can take some one elses dirctory and put it in your list and refuse other people the right to copy it is sillyness.

If this is the case those that take that position should be denied the right by the directory owners to add their directory owners site to their directory.

"Personally, I would be pretty dxxned annoyed if you copied my extensive directory lists verbatim, due to grief from duplicate content penalties."
This is also a good point. Also we have both put alot of work into our lists. I know I have spend hours doing this when I should be working on getting more work or doing the work I currently have. While I post clearly now on all my pages that my lists are copyrighted I allow anyone to make a full copy if they give me credit and a link back. I also note if they want to use my list to supplement to feel free.

 

Wow,

This generated into a very meaty discussion.

Copyright is a difficult one. I have a few thoughts on the topic.

People say they haven't copied from me, and that the similarities in their sites are purely coincidental. Yes I only promote the SEO friendly directories. Yes that means if you take my entire list and add all the junk back in you will have 3 or 4 hundred directories, and yes that will make your list look different enough. Clap clap well done.

I say to those people this... I've already had an incident a while back where my entire list (coding and all) was taken, posted on another site, and then claimed by that webdesigning company as their own...(PM me and I will show you the link)

So I took note of something this time, that I think no one else knows about. Now that the people I have approached have claimed to not have been on my site or taken any of the directories, I'm going to explain what was done.

All the *.info directories, that have the similar theme belong to Snowblind. If you read my excel you will see in the credits that he was instrumental in culling the first list of directories for the initial SEO friendly list from the massive list of directories, engines & junk I had accumulated over the years.

Snowblind approached me, and only me, in regards to releasing his directories. Therefore anyone who has his *.info directories has taken them and the existence of them from my site. That's fine, that is what they are there for... The intention of putting them on my site was to make them known and clearly that has happened.

However to those that say you haven't taken from my site. I know better

I do agree with Bob that a list of links is not copyrightable. It's not. This doesn't mean that I agree with a list being taken and claimed as one's own. To those that do maintain a list, they will know the countless hours of reviewing, answering emails, updating isn't done so someone can come and right click and create their own site, it's done for the benefit of all users to USE the list as intended for submission. Site owners get the SEO benefit and perhaps traffic from the directory submission, and directory owners get the benefit of their list being populated by links and traffic.

It would be nice if those who have copied my site to feather their own would do the honourable thing and credit me.

That's all I really have to say on the subject, except for this final thing.

To genuine directory list owners, perhaps we should begin a webring/association/membership that acknowledges real list owners (the ones who are interested in creating a useful free resource), in order to discourage behind-the-back copying. All I can see happening from list copying is myself (and others) taking our information and sources underground, and using it for our own benefit, and then the users lose out... All because some people want to be greedy and not give a link to a site they have copied from. Seems stupid to me, but that's where its heading.

Dan

 

I agree that creating an maintaining a directory list can be time consuming. I have a small one on my site. It's not in the same league as the others we see here, as it's basically just those directories that have submitted to my directory, and any directory that needed a recip link. I update date it every so often, when I can be bothered.

Just taking someones entire list, without permission or acknowleding them, is just plain wrong. You can't and shouldn't be allowed to hoard URLs, but you shouldn't take someone else list and claim it as your own. (I've seen the site that silencer is talking about, although I can't remember the URL)

 

Or, by being listed on your site, those directories made it into the search engines, or onto a web forum, or into an e-mail, or onto a newsgroup, or onto an intermediary list, or, or, or, or...

But do you differentiate between "a list" and "the items in a list"?

The more people who copy the items from my list -- the more benefit to the directory owners.

Therefore, please feel free to stop by anytime to find new entries for your list.

Perhaps every directory list should have a page which lists all other directory lists. (Except lists which use scripted links.)

 

I think Will often says you can take his work and improve it. That's a whole different thing to plain plagarism. It takes work to improve something.

 

silencer: I have been supplemented my free list from your list on two different occasions . I think I have had gotten about 20 list the first time and 40 the next time. After I the second time I felt like I had do what I would want other people to do, give credit and a link.
With my paid list I have done the same thing. While it orginally started out as a list that I had submitted my site to it soon grow into a good resource. Probably half of the links on it are from other lists. 5 here, 11 there a couple here and a couple there. Also I when into differnet directories. For all that I didn't feel like I owned any one a credit but when I snagged 40 out of yours I felt like I had no choice.

I think the idea of taking some one elses list and using it with out giving a credit is unacceptable. Further taking some one elses list and using is as it is, is unacceptable, with your there permission, as far as I can see is unacceptable also.

I would like to know if feel this site is a copy of yours.
http://www.info-sales.co.uk/dirs.htm

I looked it over and the formation seems very much the same and while there is different code and different descriptions and even to some degree different sites it looks very much to me like the mail of it came from your site or a copy of your site.

"Snowblind approached me, and only me, in regards to releasing his directories. Therefore anyone who has his *.info directories has taken them and the existence of them from my site."
I don't think some one need to give your a credit for using under 10% of your links. Do you?

 

Will.Spencer: "Perhaps every directory list should have a page which lists all other directory lists. (Except lists which use scripted links.)"
Like this one www.seocompany.ca/directory/top-web-directories.html

"The more people who copy the items from my list -- the more benefit to the directory owners. Therefore, please feel free to stop by anytime to find new entries for your list."
Well I am not going to go that far to ask people to drop by. But hey if you want to fill up your list sure go ahead. I am just not going to invite people thought.

I will say one thing though. Those that try to hord other people URLs that are in there list don't deserve to have those peoples URLs in there list. Hence I sounded a warning to those in Edwins site.

"I say beware all ye poor niche directories owners if your URL gets in Edwin's grasp you are then owned by him. Beware for he refuses your work discovered via his list to be promoted anywhere at any time by any means with refusal backed by disingenuously charges of "stealing" and wanton threats of legal action."

Since he has changed his tune, or perhaps I understand him better, it seems he is willing to allow up to 2% (12 sites out of 612) to be copied by one person from this site. I still say that is to low and I still say the warning stands.

In fact seeing how PR and link pop is not being passed I thing they should all contact them and suggest he give up his link hording or they be taken out.

They could all move over to my PR5 page where I will allow people to take the whole list wholesale if they post a link back to be and give me credit.

Again it is in the best interest of sites not to be in directories that are link horders.

 

Will,

you raise some good points, and I certainly wasn't firing in your direction. I do consider you one of the genuine directory list owners.

True. This is what makes it difficult, but to have ALL of them added in such a recent timeframe from when it happened, that's what I mean. I wanted people to spread the word about those directories it was the whole point in putting them on the front page.

Again, difficult to answer. How many items before it becomes copying? 1? 50? I don't sweat on people's lists, and if people took my entire list it wouldn't bother me, its when they steal the entire format that I have a problem.

I also believe this to be the case. If I didn't I wouldn't make the list public. So we are on the same page here. I don't go looking for directories anymore, I barely have time to read/review the emails that come in with all the suggestions. However, I also would encourage anyone that didn't have the directories that I do, to add them to their own list. That wasn't what I was against.

I have a problem with this, because directory lists that have blatantly breached my copyright would be listed, and I can't see why I should link and promote them when they have chosen not to be courteous and credit me with a link to begin with.

I would consider any link to a genuine list. If people who own lists wish to email me a link to their list, I will review it and if its suitable, add it. I've proven time and again I'm for promoting directories, and directory lists. Facts are people aren't interested in looking after the promoter, they just want to feather their own nest.

 

You've missed my point. I was the only site that listed those directories, yet people I have approached claim to never have been on my site. Yet not even days after posting those directories they miraculously appeared in their lists.

Again, I will reiterate I couldn't care less if someone took 200 links from my site. I know people have. However, That's not the point, and never was. What bothers me is theft of format. When people claim they haven't been on my site, and their format looks the same, and they have directories that were released only on my site, I think I have a case don't you?

It looks exactly like my site in format, yes I think it is a copy. I've spoken with the owner, they disagree.

They are a drop in the bucket. There are far worse rips out there.

 

silencer: Publish the list of offenders and if it is complete dup I will contact them and ask them to put a link up for you or they will be taken out of my list.

And you know me. I am pasting my list of directory lists all over the place : )

 

Silencer: "Again, I will reiterate I couldn't care less if someone took 200 links from my site. I know people have. However, That's not the point, and never was. What bothers me is theft of format. When people claim they haven't been on my site, and their format looks the same, and they have directories that were released only on my site, I think I have a case don't you?"
Well I think the case is to be made on the look and feel, code and content. Your site is db driven so the code is going to change if they make a copy of your site.

I think you are going to have a hard problem saying anyone that has a Number/Alphabet list accross the top of the page, that they have made a copy of your site. But then they have the same number of sites as you (around 200) and 90% of the site are the same, then yes I think you have a case.

The only problem is what are you going to do. Put a lawyer on them - I don't think so. So there is really nothing that can be done about it.

 

Yes... format and comments are copyrightable.

BTW, you have a great list that did quite well for one of my sites when I paid a submission service to submit it to all of the directories listed there.

 

I won't have a hard time saying its a copy of my site. Let's face it, it blatantly is.

Your correct. I'm not going to see a lawyer about it, its a free resource. I am currently creating measures that will discourage copying. Until that's ready I've resigned myself to put up with the copiers.