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Nelson Mandela

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by earlpearl, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. #1
    Nelson Mandela died several days ago. A significant funeral and memorial service is occurring today with leaders from around the world attending. He had been in declining health and had been hospitalized or in close family care for about a year. He was 95 at death.

    Mandela spent 27 years in prison. He had become such an important political leader in South Africa that during his latter years in prison the national government negotiated with him as a spokesperson for the ANC (African National Congress) with regard to conditions in South Africa.

    Upon leaving prison he continued his efforts and those of the ANC to change the Apartheid conditions of South Africa and essentially free 80% of the population that had been subjugated by 20% of the population. The apartheid regime had controlled South Africa, and before it became a nation had ruled by similar racist methods for hundreds of years.

    Following his release from prison Mandela led the ANC party and four years later saw members of that party able to vote for the first time. A remarkable change occurred with the ANC party members gaining an overwhelming majority of the votes and control of the legislature.

    Mandela became the president. The remarkable achievement in all this is that as a leader Mandela oversaw a party and a population that went from subjugation to majority control without widespread violence and massive killings.

    In light of what is occurring around the world and in light of past changes of this nature in nations around the world Mandela's leadership and the lack of widespread death and violence is remarkable. A singular achievement.

    In various interviews and speeches Mandela commented that he forgave his captors in prison and the majority White population and its governing party for the oppression of the past. This perspective may well have much to do with quelling and limiting widespread violence.

    Forgiveness is far more of a religious perspective than one espoused in politics. Mandela merits the accolades he is receiving from his native land and around the world...and should certainly be referenced here as it is a forum with the title of "politics and religion".

    Mandela managed to transcend both concepts and did so in an environment that created incredible societal change, an opening of incredible human freedoms, all while minimizing human horrors of war and destruction.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 10, 2013 IP
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  2. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Dave, its been a long time since you've put together a post that I agree with as much as this one.

    That said, I just heard Obama speaking at his memorial and I was saddened/disgusted. He cheapened the entire event.
     
    Obamanation, Dec 10, 2013 IP
  3. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3
    I agree that Nelson Mandela was a great human being and a great leader but such posts shows that people don´t know about him and what he stood for.

    Mandela declares the arm struggle in 1961


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/nelson-mandela-terrorist_n_4394392.html

    What did the English government said about him.

    He stayed 5 more years in prison because he refused to denounce arm struggle while in prison.

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mandela/mandelaaccount.html

    The question is while everyone is praising Nelson Mandela now, how many future Nelson Mandela are being executed by drones? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Dec 10, 2013 IP
  4. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #4
    You might note how Mandela's struggle did not involve non-military targets and did not involve targets outside of S.A.

    Something about murdering innocent women and children to make a political statement really sets the Muslims apart. By the way, I definitely agree the word "Terrorist" is way overused.
     
    Obamanation, Dec 10, 2013 IP
  5. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #5
    Why it doesn´t surprise me that you are as usual wrong. ;):)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe
     
    gworld, Dec 11, 2013 IP
  6. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Talk about cherry picking the wiki. From the same document:

    In June 1961, Mandela sent a letter to South African newspapers warning the government that a campaign of sabotage would be launched unless the government agreed to call for a national constitutional convention.[5] Beginning on 16 December 1961, the campaign by Umkhonto we Sizwe with Mandela as its leader, launched bomb attacks on government targets and planned for possible terrorist warfare.[6] The first target of the campaign was an electricity sub-station. Umkhonto we Sizwe undertook other acts of sabotage in the next eighteen months. The government alleged more acts of sabotage had been carried out and at the Rivonia trial the accused would be charged with 193 acts of sabotage in total.[7] The sabotage included attacks on government posts, machines, power facilities and crop burning.[5]

    ...

    In 1987, an explosion outside a Johannesburg court killed three people and injured 10; a court in Newcastle had been attacked in a similar way the previous year, injuring 24. In 1987, a bomb exploded at a military command centre in Johannesburg, killing one person and injuring 68 personnel.
    The bombing campaign continued with attacks on a series of soft targets, including a bank in Roodepoort in 1988, in which four civilians were killed and 18 injured. Also in 1988, in a bomb detonation outside a magistrate's court killed three. At the Ellis Park rugby stadium in Johannesburg, a car bomb killed two and injured 37 civilians. A multitude[citation needed] of bombs in "Wimpy Bar" fast food outlets and supermarkets occurred during the late 1980s, killing and wounding many people. Wimpy were specifically targeted because of their perceived rigid enforcements of many Apartheid-era laws, including excluding people of colour from their restaurants. Several other bombings occurred, with smaller numbers of casualties.

    From 1985 to 1987, there also was a campaign to place anti-tank mines in rural roads in what was then the Northern Transvaal. This tactic was abandoned due to the high rate of civilian casualties—especially amongst black labourers. The ANC estimated 30 landmine explosions resulting in 23 deaths, while the government submitted a figure of 57 explosions resulting in 25 deaths.[11]
    In other words, as I said, their military activities were primarily targeted at soft government targets and domestic targets that propped up the apartheid regime. Conversely, the people Islamic terrorist groups are best at killing are fellow Muslims, though civilians of foreign countries in completely non-partisan settings are preferred. Terror for the sake of terror, as the unofficial foreign policy of a countries full of jihadis that want to institute Sharia world wide. These people aren't fighting for their rights, they are fighting to remove your rights.
     
    Obamanation, Dec 11, 2013 IP
  7. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #7
    LOL. A restaurant that works according to the laws of the land, is a soft military object. How about Mc Donald for advertising American way of life, is that a soft military object too? :rolleyes:
    The rest is just your usual blah, blah to hide your lack of knowledge and the fact that you didn´t know what you were talking about and I let the users here judge for themselves. ;):)
     
    gworld, Dec 11, 2013 IP
  8. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #8
    I didn't say it was a soft military target, though the joy with which some relish using the law like a weapon against those they dislike could definitely make them a target. I can think of many a business in the deep south during the civil rights era that would have, and did fall into that category. Next you'll be calling those uppity American blacks terrorists as well.

    Yes yes, quite so. Add some more emoticons to your post. I'm sure they will see your side of the argument.
     
    Obamanation, Dec 11, 2013 IP
  9. werliyu

    werliyu Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Forgive and forget. Not many people can do that.
     
    werliyu, Dec 12, 2013 IP
    earlpearl likes this.
  10. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #10
    I can't. I've known very very few people capable of that. In my case forgiveness takes years..as is the case of some others I've known. It would seem that particular character trait of Mandela's was critical to his astounding achievements. It is the one that transcends the political and enters the realm of religious.
     
    earlpearl, Dec 12, 2013 IP