I was going to stay out of this but since there seems to be many misconceptions I figured I would give my two cents. Besides being agnostic I happen to have focused on religious studies in college and spent much time reading the Quran and the Bible. As far as quoting the Old Testament or the Quran go, you can’t interpret them unless you make sure to read the whole text. I can find quotes in the Bible just as bad as in the Quran. We are not dealing with the extremists. We are dealing with the Muslim religion. A religion that advocates the conversion or death of Christians, atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Hindu’s, alike. Muslims actually are not supposed to hate non-Muslims, as they are not considered vile or heathens. Rather, they have a hatred for polytheists (Hindus for example). Muslims do believe that Jews and Christians believe in the same God. I never said it was not the word of God. It is however, irrelevant. Think of it is as "History of the World Part 1". Opps, let's start over.. Enter, New Testament "History of the World Part 2". Catch a drift? Not sure where you are getting this from. Christians of all sorts still should read the Old Testament, and depending on your faith and the degree of liberalism you show towards the holy scriptures determines to what extent you will believe in the Old Testament. The Catholic church still advocates the Old Testament. Pope Leo XIII, Pope Benedict XV, and Pope Pius XII all believed in the Old Testament. To say “oops, lets start overâ€, would be the same as stating “lets kick all the people in heaven out and set a new standard for Christiansâ€. The Council of the Vatican (1870) stated the following: "The books of the Old and New Testament, whole and entire, with all their parts, as enumerated in the decree of the same Council [Trent] and in the ancient Latin Vulgate, are to be received as sacred and canonical. And the Church holds them as sacred and canonical not because, having been composed by human industry, they were afterwards approved by her authority; nor only because they contain revelation without errors, but because, having been written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God for their Author." Again, depending on what faith you subscribe too this will change. But not all Christians believe the Old Testament is irrelevant or a mishap or even an error. Many follow it just as much as the New Testament, if not more. I started reading the "Bible" one day and had I stopped at Exodus, I would think the same as you. However, I kept reading. Try it. I fully agree here. If you stop you will miss some interesting (and possibly life-altering) portions. It's all so silly. It's all about money and power, nothing more. The people at the top of the religious food chain could careless about "god". They want those donations, the power, and new sheep for their herd. The bigger they get, the more money they make, the more power they gain. How do people not see this for what it is? I have to disagree. Martin Luther fought this in his 95 Theses. The act of indulgences in the Catholic Church was repulsive to him (amongst many other things). I have to agree myself. However, I believe that most of the upper-crest of both Islam and Christianity truly believe in their causes. Ok, but it's still irresponsibel for a prophet to throw out hateful comments like those mentioned. You have to keep in mind a few things. Many times you are not supposed to take the holy writing literally (again depending on your beliefs you might think of the Bible as a children’s book or a holy doctrine). This can be said as a case of the same. You also have to keep in mind that the Quran was not written by Mohammad, as he was illiterate. If Muslims will kill eachother, then think what they'll do to us! This is honestly the worst point I have seen in this thread. Where is the logic to this? If a protestant shoots another protestant is it necessarily due to their religions? For a moment lets assume it was (which I assume is what you meant anyway), I guess Christians are the most disgusting of all. During the Crusades what did those nice god-fearing Catholic soldiers do? They raped what would become Orthodox Christians. You tell me how this makes sense? What situation was Ireland in for the last two decades? Yes, it is better in recent years, but the situation was dire in Ireland until recently. Catholics and Protestants have a long history of persecuting others. The Qu'Ran says he "consummated" the marriage when she was 9 years old! A Pedophilic Prophet. I had a whole reply with historical figures that have done similar. However, I think it is much easier to leave it as saying that times have changed and so have people. Marriage today and marriage a thousand years ago meant two different things. By the way, Mohammed commands all Muslims in the Qu'Ran to lie to infidels. Where does it say this? I would love to go over it myself. Just TODAY, a bomb went off at a sunni mosque in Karachi Pakistan killing three people. Again, we saw much the similar in Ireland or even closer to home in the United States of America. In the Muslim countries the people are so poor that sometimes the only way that they can make a decent living for their family is by taking their own lives in this fashion. There families are then supported by rich clerics. Not saying its right (actually I think it’s reprehensible), but not everything is due to religious differences between the people. We saw much the same in Ireland until recently – now that they are one of Europe’s fastest growing economies the violence has toned down. Indicating that much of the violence is due to financial and socioeconomic conditions rather than being solely based on religious ideals. Yes Iraq was a more secular and stable country before the invasion. But what freedoms did the people have? What kind of lives did they have? What kind of nightmares did they have. Saddam got 99% of the votes while most of the shia population hated him. I’m just curious, how sure are you of this? I’m not saying you are wrong but have you been to Iraq in a non-military fashion? Do you speak Farsi or Arabic and have communicated with the inhabitants of the area? I have family in the area and I can assure you that many would rather have had Saddam in power than lose much of their innocent families during the war. The government in place now doesn’t seem any better to me yet anyways (I’m sure it will eventually though). Let’s see what the United States will do about the Shi’a population. Most of the population originated from Iran or has ties with Iran, and we know America’s stance on Iran. They will NOT let Iraq become best friends with Iran anytime soon and have shown that in their comments and policies in recent months. Doesn’t seem like the Muslims in Iraq have that much more freedom anyway. I see no problem in killing people that deserves to be killed. These doctors are brutal murders, my friend. But you don't see any problem in killing innocent people that havn't said a single word. You see no problem in killing people that deserve to be killed? So you suddenly become the judge, jury, and executioner? We have a code of morals, ethics and LAWS in most of our countries and I hope that you abide by them. Not once, as a matter of fact. While he claims he doesn't defend them, he has clearly supported them with aid and comfort by giving their credit for 9/11 to others, by giving zarqawi's credit for killing to the US, by making excuses for their actions by attempting to change topics from Islam to Christianity. Now this seems ignorant and very reminiscent of what a Racist would say when having a similar conversation regarding minorities. How can you blame events on a religion? I can’t blame such events on members of a religion – this would be idiotic. Not all Muslims committed these acts. I’m from New York and have best friends who lost siblings and family and I still believe this. Making comparisons, like islam is just as bad as Christianity, while never noting any modern day sources of where Christians are flying into buildings, blowing up cars, buildings, trains, subways and anywhere/thing else where something with a lung exists. Are you serious? Again, look at Ireland’s track record. Why does it have to be recent history? Catholicism has had more than enough violence and bigotry. What are your excuses about South America? Most so-called ‘terrorists’ there are extremely religious and yet continue to do many of the things that you mention. Ok so Muslim's do not hate other religions. They just don't allow any other religions in countries that are ran by the Muslim religion. If the Muslim religion do not hate other religions, than why is it that other religions can not proslyte in Muslim ran countries. I know the Baptists, Catholics, Christians, LDS(Mormons) etc. can not go in and teach their point of view to the people. Other people who belong to other religions may be in these countries but can not proselyte to the Muslim people. In fact if you are muslim and convert to christianity than this is punishable by death. I agree with this. This is a harsh mistake; however it is not a religious mistake. The people in power in these countries are extremely paranoid or selfish and this is why they do this. Islam does not preach this, you see countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran do this because the rich want to stay rich. This is not a religious issue but rather a political one. By the way, there are plenty of Jews in Iran and I wouldn’t exactly say they are in hiding. My wife was accepted into MIT, but was not allowed by her father to go to MIT because her brother was not accepted into MIT.She wasn't allowed to go, because he could not go to act as her chaperone. This was as an adult woman -- over the age of 18. She chose to escape from her home and her family instead of living as a second class citizen in the Islamic culture.She was subject to physical abuse right up to the point she escaped. To this day, she lives with the constant threat of being murdered because of her decision to leave Islam. This happens to many people. I knew a young woman who got into a very good school (her older brother moved half-way across the country and dormed) but her parents wouldn’t let her. In the end her parents ended up quitting their jobs and moving into an extremely small apartment and found new jobs so their daughter can go to school and they could still trust them. I think this is completely ridiculous however I respect the fact that this is there culture. The main point here is that is cultural. I know MANY extremely orthodox Muslims who could care less about their daughter dorming or moving away from home. I'm not saying that I think Islam is better than Christianity but I am defending Islam from stereotyping. I'm not Muslim and don't like Islam any more than Christianity. I just happen to believe that most people happen to be ignorant about Islam and make judgements based on things they don't know, as this thread has reaffirmed for me. This thread can go on forever and there will be no conclusion. These arguments have been going on for generations and I hope that it will end soon. We need a dialouge between nations rather than a conflict.
Hmmmm..... OK Money power and greed all in the name of Allah. Still the fact religion is great for oneself. Heck you can even run some of you laws based off of your religious beliefs. Just as long as there is seperation from church and state. But what it comes down to, is that the Muslim ran governments hide behind their belief to stay in control. To impose their ideas on others whether it be another gender, sect, religion, race, country etc. They use Allah to back them in some pretty poor decisions. Then to place blame elsewhere or to be contradictory.
Don’t worry Yo-Yo; the Anglo-American world power along with the United Nations will destroy all religion very soon. The political, religious, and commercial system we have come to know, as a constant reality will be dismembered soon. Can’t you see that the stage is being set throughout the Earth for the destruction of all religion? WW3 will simply set the stage for the annihilation of Babylon the Great (World Empire of false religion). The Tribulation the Earth will see will be beyond all comprehension. The Governments of today are beginning to see religion as the single greatest threat to a free society and its roadmap to world peace; they will soon take decisive action in the interest of ‘permanent world security.’ D
Dar al Islam ring a bell? Perhaps one of the most famous phrases in Arabic. It means "One World Under Islam" They believe all "Kafirs" must be exterminated. Kafir, being infidel. HELLO?! I was speaking of the Faquah's BETWEEN sects! They have declared war on the other sects often. Look in Iraq, Civil War between Shiite and Sunni. Are you justifying a man over 30 marrying a 6 year old?! Wow. It is written about all over in the Qu'Ran about what a lecher Mohammed was. That he could "please 20 women in one night and still have energy". Qu'ran 3:28. And now for some more verses. The Qu'Ran is FILLED with anti-infidel remarks. Almost every chapter has ATLEAST one disparaging remark about the "kafirs". Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.†Qur’an 8:12 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers†Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them†Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem†Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels (non-Muslims) out to the last.’†Qur’an 4:101 “The unbelievers (non-Muslims) are your inveterate foe.†Qur’an 9.28 Oh you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque (Mecca) Qur’an 8:55 "Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve." Qur’an 9.29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah" Qur’an 47:4 “Strike off the heads of the disbelievers†Yeah, we must be "mis-interpreting". Too bad I got my sources from Arabic speaking apostates. THE NAME ISLAM MEANS "TO SUBMIT" What more do you need?!
many of my catholic friends feel the same way about gays, if you feel that gays or any other group of people should die, i wouldnt complain about Muslim beliefs, it is a great religion, but like all religions that were created a long time ago, they are certain things written that cannot be applied to current times.
Odd, I'm Catholic, and have no problem with what other people do in the privacy of their own bedroom.