Muslim German Minister Bans Cross in schools ... !

Ok..When I read this..I couldn't believe it was true..unfortunately it was.

A couple of days ago I posted about the Islamic demographic in Europe and how it can lead to problems in the future. Yesterday, I see this in the news http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0426/germany.html

"A call by a German politician of Turkish origin for a ban on Christian crosses in state schools has sparked uproar in her conservative party and death threats from far-right groups."

A perfect example of what we are talking about in my previous thread and why Europeans need to get it into their thick heads!

Come on! You are a Turkish immigrant..they took you into their country..provided you the best lands and education..now when you're in power, you want to remove the christian symbol from schools?
even if you're a minister, WHO ARE YOU to make impacts on the young?
even more, WHO ARE YOU to decide on other religions?

Seriously? How about you get the hell out of the country then if you don't like it?

 

Wait till they hoist a differrent flag there and ask for a separate country.

 

Its just a call, it won't go through and he'll lose the next election which makes me wonder, why did they elect him (and make a minister) in the first place?

 

I don't know that much about her, and I'm really not trying to defend her statement. However, it appears that article may have left out part of her statement.

On the Politics Forum, they said her statement was, "Christian symbols do not belong in state schools," Oezkan told German magazine Focus, adding that "schools should be neutral places where children can decide their religious orientation on their own. Just as head scarves do not belong in classrooms."

Therefore, It doesn't sound like she would be a fan of islamic scarves in schools either. Again, I don't know, but perhaps she has ideals of separation of church and state (public schools)? Personally, I believe the children should be able to wear christian symbols, the kids can wear head scarves, but perhaps the school itself shouldn't necessarily be promoting religion.

 

brainwashing has no place in schools...schools are places for education not mass control...

 

I don't get what you are referring to? Are you claiming that placing a cross or allowing crosses in schools will brainwash the kids?

 

Of course it won't go through! Do you think when she applies for minister..she goes on about her plans to ban the cross? of course not!

 

Also a person whose parents were born in Turkey has the right to express his/her democratic political ideas. That is what the constitution in Germany says. And that is GOOD.

 

religion is for churches/mosques/temples/whatever...school is for education...

not everybody is christian or religious...kids should be spared from mass control bullshit...

 

This is far from political. She mixed the education system with religion..much more complicated scheme. She of course has the right to express but that doesn't mean it is RIGHT.

 

There is christian education in schools. Some of the private schools owned by churches. Of course kids can wear a cross..that doesn't mean they will preach about it. Its a symbol. Just like the Quran in Arab schools.

 

yes i am aware of this...ive attended numerous christian schools in the west...as an atheist i was made aware of how unfair this is...we had bullshit mass every morning to a god that i did not believe in and neither did half the kids i attended school with...we also had muslim/buddist/whatever kids also forced in to this mold...

wearing a cross is kinda like wearing gang colors...not saying that religion preaches false values, far from it...i agree with them...but wearing a cross makes non christian or atheist kids "outsiders"...there is no place for this in schools...

 

there shouldn't be any religious stuff in public schools. Having said that, I doubt that the motivations of the minister are well-intentioned (wanting to promote secularism). He is probably pissed off at antimuslim measures and wants to apply the law of talion (eye for an eye)

 

Not even a Muslim! Next time, read properly!

 

Wow... did not consider herself a devout muslim means she is not a muslim? You read properly

 

Yes he is. And he is right.

Teaching children dogma instead of teaching them how to think is a crime which unfortunately too many parents do to their own kids. The results of which are to be seem too often also on this forum.

The only mechanism responsible that religions are not to be found only in the books of history is the brainwashing of children.
Any idea burnt into the too-young immature and innocent mind is pretty much likely to stay there forever. For this reason all religions have "religious schools" (their own "education" system), or else they would vanish.

 

Hi luke12,

I didn´t mean her idea is good, I think it´s a bad idea, I don´t agree with her. I just wanted to say it is her right to have another opinion than I. It doesn´t matter if her parents were born in Turkey. And that is also what the constitution in Germany says: 1. everyone has the right to express his/her political ideas and 2. state and religious ideas must remain separated.

Do you know that the parents of the children that go to school in Germany have the right to demand that the class rooms are free from religious symbols? That´s their right and some make use of it. So, what is the problem when the minister says what the constitution and the law in Germany already guarantee?

 

If they have the right to demand class rooms free from religious symbols...they will be minority (at least for now). Also, students and parents have the right to demand the presence of the christian symbol in schools and within children.

 

Hi luke12,

I don´t get your point that well, could you please paraphrase it? Thanks.

Regards

Javi

 

I think this is probably accurate. I would guess the recent bans on Muslim head scarfs in some places has probably prompted the action, but that is just speculation.

I'm not familiar with the exact reading of this specific ban, but I would guess it is a ban on what children can wear, not on crosses being erected on state school premises. Those have probably long since been done away with in the home of Friedrich Nietzsche. If German law is as you describe it, refusal to let children wear crosses could easily be construed as a violation of their right to express their political and religious ideas. I'm hard pressed to see how the ban could possibly be viewed as upholding anyone's rights. I'm also hard pressed to see how the ban is solving some problem, like bans on gang related clothing do. It does nothing but single out groups of people and oppress them a little. I'm personally a fan of school uniforms, which solve a wide variety of others, in my opinion, but since crosses fall into the category of jewelery, are we going to say no jewelery as well? How about no make up? Before we are done, they'll all be wearing something akin to a state issued berka.


@Atvking: I have to appreciate the genius of going to a religious school and complaining about the presence of religion. I went to McDonalds the other day, and I was so angry they were serving.... HAMBURGERS!!!! Can you believe it!!?