Then there is no reason to take you or your religion seriously. I can't even trust what is written. The questions were a test to see if you could admit if anything Mr M said was wrong whether in actuallity or hypothetically. Since you can't then there's no reason to trust your ability to be honest with us in your discussion of Islam. http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/denialhadith.htm Even the prophets in the OT admitted that some things they did were wrong. In the NT we find similar examples.
Hah! I believe that my Prophet made mistakes. I never said that he was a fully error-free individual. He is a man after all. My point is that what you keep repeating is not something he said. You are taking a point, FORCING me to say that he made a mistake. The truth is that he NEVER said such a thing. THEN you blame me for taking him as an infallible man which I never claimed he is. You must be really experienced in deceiving people, because you seem to follow a very tricky way to do so. Thank God, I am a learned person who has extensive research experience and I can follow people's ideas very well and find their faults. Don't think I didn't see your trick.
What mistakes did Muhammad make? Everyone knows that the verses brujj1 is refering to don't point to Muhammad or Joseph Smith. They point to Luke Skywalker.
You know that every written thing is written by an author, right? And that each and every individual, even if they try to be objective so hard, no one can be %100 objective. You seem to have never heard of the discussions of history being fiction or the truth. "History" is written by people, and therefore not %100 true. Moreover "his-(s)tory" is a very gender biased story of men, because it is almost always written by men and not women. That does not mean you should disregard everything that is written or yourself.
Kelvin, you seem to be afraid that I am going to take over the world or something, so you are trying to gether people on yourside.
What mistakes did Muhammad make? What are all the verses in the Bukhari that should be striked out? This thread is about Muhammad. Not about me.
Why don't you go into Islamic Studies. That's what I am doing. You are free to decide which is his which is not. Muhammad himself is known to have said to people not to write down his saying - I am not sure about that, but yes, I remember reading it somewhere. He told people not to see him as a divine person and not to do the same mistake as Christians did about Jesus. Moreover, when it comes to hadith, Muhammad (s.a.s.) had been known to have said that when we read a hadith we should compare it with our knowledge of the Qur'an (Qur'an is completely Allah's words) and if we don't think they match, then we go with the Qur'an. We are told to use our heart to decide. I believe that's what Bukhari did. And of course, as a scholar you learn several technical ways to decide if a hadith is completety follows all the way to the Prophet or not. Here is a bit of this technicality: A hadith has two parts: the chain part and the content part. It goes like this: Chain part: "so and so said that so and so said that so and so said....... that so and so saw the Prophet saying that:" (That could be pages long). Content part: "when a man came to the Prophet and asked....." Now you have to make sure that the witness who reported the hadith was actually saw the Prophet. For that you have to do tons of research to see if this person lived there, travelled there, knew the Prophet very well. You have to compare several hadith and see his name passes there and so on. That's what hadith scholars do throughout their lives.
No, really, I wonder about you now. I seem to like you. You are a bit angry but you want to learn. I like you for that.
So you don't believe that Jesus is perfect? And when it comes to Islam you're basically telling me that you can believe whatever you want. So if I want to believe that Muhammad said that women have less of a brain then men then I'm perfectly okay in doing that. Unless you can prove that he didn't say it.
Of course not. Jesus (s.a.s.) is a man. He is "Jesus son of Mary." I love him as a man, and as my second Prophet. All Prophet's made mistakes. Did you forget the mistake of Adam (s.a.s)? Moses (s.a.s) did too.
I'm still waiting for specific examples of mistakes that Muhammad made. Give me an example of something he said that was wrong. Give me an example of something he did that was wrong. Do the same for Jesus. I want to know what he did that was wrong.
How am I supposed to know their mistakes, as if I witnessed them doing wrong and as If I would know it is a mistake even if I witnessed them? Since they are Prophets and I have to follow them, my knowledge would not be enough to judge their mistakes even if I saw them. I believe that they made mistakes on the basis of what Muhammad himself said about himself -that he is man and not divine or infallible. Moreover, -thats' my opinion as a scholar- you can read the Qur'an and see some verses that Allah is talking angrily or passionately and saying that if He did not forgive them, they would have had a grevious penalty. There you can guess that they made a mistake and asked for God's forgiveness or that God is telling them to ask for His forgiveness.
And why do you suppose it's so hard to find one concrete example of a mistake that Muhammad or Christ made and yet there are a number of mistakes that OT prophets made which are recorded? So you are saying basically that you cannot judge someone who claims to be a prophet?
The story of Adam and Eve is actually a myth, and by myth I mean a "known truth." If you read the Hebrew version, his name was not adam, it was adama, which means "earth creature". There is absolutly no way to even say that "adama" ever existed, we will only find out when we get to heaven. Also, Jesus was a man, but he was also fully divine, therefore he was perfect, unlike Muhammed. If I had a picture of muhammed, I would actually post it in this forum to see what you would say about it...and I would also like proof that Isaiah, Elijah, and Elisha made mistakes, since you obviously know the Bible better than anyone else on this earth....
Kelvin, I don't even think of judging my Prophet, although, as a person I always wonder why he did something when he did something in this or that specific way. I wonder why he chose something rather than something else which I would chose. I don't see that judging a Prophet is a big deal. After all, each one of them are Allah's Prophet's and whatever mistakes they did it is between them and Allah, unless Allah makes it clear to people. And that would be because the Prophets and the rest of the people would learn something positive from that, I would think. Why is it so important that they made few mistakes, to you? I am mostly concerned about my own mistakes and how to live this life with people who think differently. I am glad I am not closed minded when it comes to religion as many people here. For me, it is enough to know that they are all humans and made mistakes. But that does not stop them from being my Prophets nor does that stop me from following them. They Prophets and I am not, and I have to follow them to be in their community of believers. That is my whole concern. Tell me why it is important to you that I tell my Prophet's mistakes? What is your intention? I feel like I am forced to talk about my Prophet's weaknesses. I don't know if my Prophet would appreciate that very much from me. I know though, he would appreciate that I am telling what he said, that he is not divine, he is not infallible. He is just a messenger of Allah and he did the best he could.
The reason why Muslims including me, talk about Muhammad (s.a.s) as the best man that has ever been created (not perfect but best in the closeness to Allah) is because that what Allah says in the Qur'an. He says that He raises some Prophets higher than some. He also says that Muhammad is the best among them -I believe- You can not blame Muslims because they believe in Allah.
you didn't give any proof....what mistakes did Moses make? or Jesus? or Isaiah? Or Elijah? or Elisha?
So if you can't judge a prophet then how do you know he is a prophet? Muhammad is dead. Why do you fear him so much that you can't tell us something he did wrong and something he said that was wrong? Moses murdered an Egyptian slave. Moses latered appeared with Christ.