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Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by gworld, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #201
    All of your references to the Gworld Zone would suggest otherwise.

    Additionally, the fact is that gworld has quoted what he says are DMOZ's own guidelines. If he's misquoting, tell me where. Those guidelines, as gworld says, seem to make the pages in question illegal listings. Your answer to that has been to redefine things like "doorway pages" to make them "less illegal" but it doesn't answer the question of why they are there. They are in violation of the guidelines by any reasonable definition of doorway pages. You don't help the situation by trying to establish an idiosyncratic definition as the correct one.
    SEMrush
    It's like the exchange between the Mad Hatter (I think, or possible the Doormouse) and Alice in Alice and Wonderland:

    Alice: The question is whether you can make a word mean anything you wish.
    Hatter: The question is - who is to be master? Me? or the word?

    That's humorous, of course, because the Mad Hatter has it all wrong. If that's what DMOZ is trying to do, they also have it all wrong.
     
    minstrel, Mar 25, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. lmocr

    lmocr Peon

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  3. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

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    #203
    It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is. :D

    Once again, they are not in violation of the guidelines by the ODP definition of doorway pages.

    If you want to argue that the ODP definition is not reasonable, then argue away.

    There are two different arguements there - don't mix them together.
     
    sidjf, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  4. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #204
    A few comments, but this thread sadly seems to be degenerating into personal slating...

    I don't know anything about him *shrug* but I DO know that any editor within Adult who started deleting off (or 'fixing' if you like), numerous listings in there would be jumped on quite quickly. I don't think consequently asking him to 'fix' anything in there is possible.

    No , I don't hold you reponsible in the slightest. Gworld ? I've never spoken to him I don't feel the need to get together with anyone thanks.

    This comment is way below the belt and uncalled for. You missed my posts in the , in fact, no I'm not even going to justify myself.

    Oh sid...I think that just about brings us back to square one with the 'thats how it is and thats that' type thing. I thought this whole thread was about WHY these guidelines were there in place in Adult, not that they exist in the first place.

    Oh and no, I won't be bringing this up in the internal forums, I was considering it (thanks to those who pm'd suggesting I do so) but certain red reps I've recieved have convinced me that it would be a complete waste of time. :(
     
    shygirl, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  5. lmocr

    lmocr Peon

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    #205
    Don't believe everything you see in the "red reps" - anyone can sign their name. Look back at that huge thread and see where portprophecy attacked me for red repping him. I never did - and I had a PM conversation with him about it.

    When you rep someone - the name signed is hand typed in there, not attached by the computer. Any red reps should be taken with a grain of salt - if that much.
     
    lmocr, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  6. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

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    #206
    I'm not saying "That's how it is and that's that". I'm saying "That's how it is". I'm very open to discussions about whether Adult guidelines and definitions should be changed, so "that's not that".

    That's not what I have understood from any of gworld's posts here. He's not arguing that the guidelines should be changed, he's arguing that they say something that they don't say.
     
    sidjf, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  7. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #207
    *sigh*

    Pathetic. Sid and lmocr are like the ultimate DMOZ toadies.... just reciting the DMOZ catechism.
     
    minstrel, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  8. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #208
    No sid, I took this thread to be all about the guidelines.

    He asked about the multiple listings/doorway pages/affliate links etc for one "site".

    But I guess I looked at the bigger picture and applied the whole thing across the board ? I took it that hundreds, mabye thousands of these ( questionable to me anyway ) sites exist in Adult. The guidelines currently permit them to be there as you said.

    I took that to mean that the current guidelines as they stand certainly seem a bit 'iffy' if they can be manipulated and so wildy misinterpreted either way. :confused:

    A) Those convinced that many, many of the sites listed, sometimes numerously, according to the guidleines as they stand, are illegal listings and shouldn't be there. Examples of doorway pages, affliate links etc being the reason behind the illegality.

    OR

    B) Those who insist that the guidelines as they stand permit these listings legitimately, and who dispute that these sites are simply doorways or affliate links and think they do provide real content in their niche.

    Either way, folks are reading what they want to see into them, and from the looks of it, these guidelines are also extremely easily manipulated as you said yourself, by webmasters wanting to make a quick buck.

    So, for me, I'd say there needs to be a bit of a rethink and things certainly need to made a LOT clearer as to what consitutes a 'site' a 'page', a 'doorway', a site which 'primarily drives traffic' and what might also be good is a cap on the amount of times the same url is listed.
    It's not fair on the rest of the directory who abide by much stricter rules regarding it.
     
    shygirl, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  9. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

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    #209
    Lol, well, at least I don't have to bother with the thread anymore now that I know for sure that this has turned from a discussion to just a couple of people wanting to troll and argue. I've made my position excruciatingly and repeatedly clear, but you choose to ignore everything I say and respond with the standard DP troll responses. Oh well. :rolleyes:
     
    sidjf, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  10. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

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    #210
    Exactly my point. You are discussing the way you think the ODP should be. And I agree with most of what you just posted.

    Gworld is claiming that these sites violate existing dmoz guidelines, and they don't.

    The difference is that you are saying the sites should violate guidelines and gworld is saying that they do violate guidelines. That's a huge difference.
     
    sidjf, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  11. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #211
    shygirl, you have it right.

    sid, that's just more bafflegab and smokescreening, as you know. You have no intention of addressing any real issue. I think your decision "not to bother with this thread anymore" is an excellent one.
     
    minstrel, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  12. pagode

    pagode Guest

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    #212
    Discussions about changing guidelines should be held in the DMOZ internal forum. And the discussion about deeplinks is already running.
    If editors need explanation of some of the guidelines they should also ask in the DMOZ forum.

    BTW The guidelines for adult are not different from the rest of the directory. There are special adult guidelines but they don't replace the overall guidelines.
     
    pagode, Mar 25, 2006 IP
    lmocr likes this.
  13. lmocr

    lmocr Peon

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    #213
    Shygirl - and any other editors reading - if you're concerned that making comments in any internal threads will make you the target of personal attacks, you are welcome to email me your comments and I will make them available in the thread you desire as an "annonymous comment". This offer is limited to comments that conform to the ODP Communications guidelines.
     
    lmocr, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  14. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

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    #214
    Explain to me how quoting the ODP guidelines in context is bafflegab or smokescreening.

    One last time, just to make sure it's clear, I agree that the qualifications for a listing in Image_Galleries SHOULD be stricter. Again, how is that bafflegab or smokescreening? Please explain.
     
    sidjf, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  15. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #215
    No, If you read most of my posts in this thread, all along I was hoping for some justification as to why things are as they are...

    But you said that was a different discussion. I was hoping for a bit more than that.

    And so this entire thread seems to be a heated debate on when is a doorway page not a doorway page, or what consitutes content on a page v's driving afflliate traffic.

    We are debating different interpretations of the way things are. And those different interpretations are causing a LOT of confusion as to what violates what.
     
    shygirl, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  16. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

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    #216
    Fair enough. This is what the guidelines have to say about doorway sites (bold mine), interpret it how you wish: :)

     
    sidjf, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  17. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #217
    That is EXACTLY the point.

    Let me know if there's anything there you didn't understand, sid, and I'll try to explain it.

    Hint: Trying to tell us that those sites fit within DMOZ guidelines because you or anyone else chooses to re-define "doorway pages" is bafflegab and smokescreening.

    Do you see shygirl being attacked here? She is the only one of you who is actually addressing the issues.

    Translation: The DMOZ Admin is unhappy about having the incoherence, fallacies. and contradictions of DMOZ policies being discussed in public and is warning editors that they had better watch out. :eek:

    Many of your editors have said otherwise. Many of the listings in Adult say otherwise. :rolleyes:
     
    minstrel, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  18. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #218
    And you choose to interpret "nothing more" and "absolutely no content of their own" to mean that if you add a few images that are widely available elsewhere and/or appear on the site the doorway page is constructed to point to that makes it no longer a doorway page.

    THAT is bafflegab and smokescreening, sid, in case you needed another example.

    Well, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt there, I suppose. If it isn't intentional bafflegab and smokescreening, it's mere stupidity. You tell me which it is.
     
    minstrel, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  19. pagode

    pagode Guest

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    #219
    Sorry, wrong guess. I'm not an DMOZ Admin.
    My advice was only given because of the fact that internal discussions will not be hindered by people like you. A second thing to remember is that people here, although they might be DMOZ editors, do not represent DMOZ in any way they can only give their own opinion. But they are ofcourse allowed tot explain the current DMOZ guidelines (although I doubt anyone is willing to listen as you seem to be preoccupied by you own interpretations of good and wrong).

    Although internal DMOZ discussions may be tough I doubt anyone needs to be afraid to become the target of personal attacks. This in contrast to DP, where personal attacks against DMOZ editors seem to be the norm.
     
    pagode, Mar 25, 2006 IP
  20. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #220
    That's nonsense, aquarius. I don't attack "DMOZ editors". I attack bullshit. The apparent correlation is the result of a majority of DMOZ editors posting repetitive bullshit.

    "Hindered"?

    These particular discussions wouldn't even be occurring without forums like DP. Or are you another DMOZ toadie like lmocr who is going to deny that?
     
    minstrel, Mar 25, 2006 IP