1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

More evidence that Google doesn't value DMOZ

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by minstrel, Nov 22, 2007.

  1. #1
    On Google's Navigational Bar
    By Ionut Alex Chitu
    Thu, Nov 22 2007

    Note particularly that the Google Directory is nowhere to be found. Heck, even Orkut is in there (and who still uses that?) but not the DMOZ Dump.
     
    minstrel, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  2. paidhosting

    paidhosting Peon

    Messages:
    4,822
    Likes Received:
    483
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #2
    Woot i use orkut :)
     
    paidhosting, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  3. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    347
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #3
    Woot I use DMOZ. :D

    Heck, I use lots of sites that aren't included in the Google navigation bar. ;)
     
    compostannie, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  4. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    15,082
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    480
    #4
    I have an Orkut account from about 2004 but I thought they had gone belly up - I havedn't heard anyone talk about Orkut for ages. Last time I looked, the place was overrun with Brazilians, for some reason...

    Me too. None of my favorite sites are in Google's navigation bar. But this is really talking about the Google Directory, the existence of which is often trotted out as evidence of the SEO value of a DMOZ listing and/or of the importance of the continued existence of DMOZ to the internet and to the world of search engines.

    And before anyone protests that this is a straw man, I just replied to a post making such claims yesterday or the day before here at DP - for probably the 1000th time.
     
    minstrel, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  5. paidhosting

    paidhosting Peon

    Messages:
    4,822
    Likes Received:
    483
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #5
    Honestly tell me minstrel, does dmoz has like no seo value i mean not even 1% ?
     
    paidhosting, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  6. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    15,082
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    480
    #6
    It has the same value as any other equivalent link.

    Look at the DMOZ page containing your site listing.

    Get the PageRank of that DMOZ page.

    Now count the total number of outgoing links on that DMOZ page, including navigation links.

    The value of the DMOZ listing is approximately as follows:

    {DMOZ page PR} *.85 / {total number of outgoing links}

    From that you can calculate the PR value being passed to your home page (or internal page if it's a deeplink).

    And that is the TOTAL value of a DMOZ listing.

    Not all that much, is it?

    And by the way, this is the same as any other directory out there, in case you're into squandering money on submitting your sites to paid directories. The only exceptions are certain niche directories with stringent quality controls, assuming Joe Surfer ever gets to hear of them.
     
    minstrel, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  7. windtalker

    windtalker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    34
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    145
    #7
    Google view Dmoz as it would any other directory that had its status..Dmoz happens to have more quality than other directories on the web because of the work of its editors.
     
    windtalker, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  8. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    15,082
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    480
    #8
    What status? Google has made it clear repeatedly that a DMOZ listing has no special value or boost beyond any other equivalent backlink.

    I’m on debunking duty
    Matt Cutts
    December 8, 2006

    In comments:

     
    minstrel, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  9. paidhosting

    paidhosting Peon

    Messages:
    4,822
    Likes Received:
    483
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #9
    Alright, so bottom line is dmoz does have value whatever small it maybe, but than again do seo workers submit cause they have a value or because google does values dmoz or not ?

    Google is a company remember it does not value u,me nor any other joe blow off the street. They want money and ways to make more money plain simple.So if something that has 0 value by google does not mean its entirely worthless.



    Cheers
     
    paidhosting, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  10. nebuchadrezzar

    nebuchadrezzar Peon

    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    59
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #10
    No that is not what he said. He said that there was no special ODP boost. That does not preclude it being used as part of an algorithm that gives certain sites authority such as trustrank or similar. By only telling half the story you are demonstrating either your ignorance or arrogance. I am leaning towards the latter.
     
    nebuchadrezzar, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  11. Anonymously

    Anonymously Notable Member

    Messages:
    1,939
    Likes Received:
    74
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    215
    #11
    Who cares about Google value? I want to provide a directory, how anyone elkse uses it is of no concern to me. In fact I wish that Google would stop using any information from ODP, that way the directory can stand on its own and we might not get so many people who feel they need to lie and or cheat their way in.
     
    Anonymously, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  12. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    15,082
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    480
    #12
    Nebbie, Nebbie, Nebbie... it would be far better if you stick to topics you actually know something about, whatever that may be. What Matt Cutts said is quite clear:

    I’m on debunking duty
    Any value the link has comes from the PR of the page containing the listing. How much more clear do you need the statement to be for you to understand it? What evidence do you have that DMOZ is considered an authority site within the context of any search engine? What evidence do you have that a concept like "trustrank" is even being used, and in particular applies to anything DMOZ does?

    Resorting to personal insults doesn't alter the facts, Nebbie. I understand that from your point of view that's a crying shame but there you have it...
     
    minstrel, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  13. nebuchadrezzar

    nebuchadrezzar Peon

    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    59
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #13
    I am not sure of the wisdom of hanging off Mr Cutts every word but you are playing your silly little games again. He said "The PageRank value of a link from an ODP page is solely because that ODP page has high PageRank."You are saying any value.

    And no, I can't prove that google is using trustrank in their algorithm. For some strange reason they keep their algorithm secret.
     
    nebuchadrezzar, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  14. windtalker

    windtalker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    34
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    145
    #14
    Where did I say Dmoz have a special value or boost? :confused: Please show me. :rolleyes:

    If any other directory on the web had the same age, trust, actual unique quality listings (besides commercial ones), number of editors, etc. then they would have the same directory authority "status" that Dmoz have... Dmoz's "status" is it is the top directory on the web.

    Dmoz must have some value, or it would have faced the same sledgehammer Google have been crushing other directories with lately.
     
    windtalker, Nov 22, 2007 IP
    Anonymously likes this.
  15. paidhosting

    paidhosting Peon

    Messages:
    4,822
    Likes Received:
    483
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #15
    I do not think dmoz has any authority status anymore on google though. I typed dmoz.org in google and it does not show various other links to site like for example you type yahoo.com .

    I noticed that few weeks back.
     
    paidhosting, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  16. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    15,082
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    480
    #16

    Specifically, he said:

    And he said it in the context of other comments, as well as in other blog posts and interviews. Have you even read the blog post in the link I provided? or the comments that followed the blog post before Cutts added the comment I've quoted?

    No, I didn't think so.

    SEO article in Newsweek
    December 11, 2005

    In comments:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1756437348670651505

    I’m on debunking duty
    Matt Cutts
    December 8, 2006

    In comments:

    Want more? :rolleyes:

    http://www.bruceclay.com/blog/archives/2007/03/fun_forum_finds.html

    The value of any backlink is a function of:

    1. the PR of the originating page
    2. the number of outgoing links, including internal navigation links, from that page
    3. the consistency or homogeneity versus heterogeneity (content, topic, relevance) of those outgoing links
    4. whether there are any "bad neighborhood" penalties or similar issues associated with the originating page
    5. whether there are any duplicate content issue with the originating page
    But assuming all of those factors are equal for the DMOZ link versus the "other" link, the DMOZ link has no special value. Neither does the .edu link or the .gov link or any of the other types of links to which Google myth addicts attribute special magic.

    And even if you STILL stubbornly refuse to accept reality, you're still left with the point in the opening post of this thread:

     
    minstrel, Nov 22, 2007 IP
  17. bdw

    bdw The Booler

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #17
    So who told you that?
     
    bdw, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  18. bdw

    bdw The Booler

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #18
    Click "more >>" then click "Directory". That is hardly hard to find now is it?
     
    bdw, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  19. Abhik

    Abhik ..:: The ONE ::..

    Messages:
    11,337
    Likes Received:
    606
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    410
    Digital Goods:
    2
    #19
    Who cares for DMOZ??
    anyway, do you really think PR of a page counts when it comes to value of the backlink?
     
    Abhik, Nov 23, 2007 IP
  20. bdw

    bdw The Booler

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #20
    The Google Directory is now grouped along with
    • Alerts
    • Blog Search
    • Book Search
    • Checkout
    • Desktop
    • Google Earth
    • Maps
    • NEws
    • Toolbar
    • etc.
    • etc.

    Does this mean that google doesn't value these either?
     
    bdw, Nov 23, 2007 IP