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Microsoft is dead!

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by anthonycea, Oct 28, 2004.

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  1. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #81
    That's rather misleading... First, I don't know of any patches that Microsoft has charged anyone for... do you? Second, it's not true that they "take a long time to get" or that "the exploits are around before the fix".

    Remember the big bomb in September 2003 (one of the original Bagle, Doom, or Netsky things... they all run together after a while)? That vulnerability had been around for a long time and there had been a patch available for almost as long... months... few people had applied it so the "virus" was able to wreak havoc... the patch was applied AFTER the havoc but you can hardly blame Microsoft for that...

    That I can absolutely agree with. And one of the correlates is that people running non-Windows operating systems are more likely to be techies to start with and therefore more likely to be conscious of the dangers and quicker to apply avialble patches. Again, this isn't a Microsoft issue... it's a people issue.SEMrush
     
    minstrel, Nov 13, 2004 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #82
    I guess that depends on what market you are referring to???

    What? The consumer market? Maybe, sure, I'll buy that.

    But enterprise? Servers? Much different market. Let's put this into perspective. A quick look at Netcraft seems to indicate if you add up all the nix's you will find better than 70% market share with MS pulling in at a measely 21%.

    So again, let's put this into perspective here. Define "market share", ie., what market?
     
    Mia, Nov 13, 2004 IP
  3. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #83
    Well, first, this thread has been about operating systems, not servers, and my replies are aimed at those comments which purport to provide evidence that MS is doomed because MAC and/or Linux are somehow immune to attack.

    Second, it's a bit late tonight to be hunting down stats about servers but I don't deny that Unix has always had a sizeable share of the market and that Linux is rapidly acquiring it's own share. Microsoft, of course, also has a sizeable share. If you now want to extend this to claim that either Unix or Linux servers are not vulnerable to attacks of various sorts while Microsoft servers are vulnerable, I think you're going to have a tough time arguing that point.
     
    minstrel, Nov 14, 2004 IP
  4. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #84
    Good point.. And I agree completely.. I do not see a quick death for MS in the consumer OS market at all. I do see, however a trend away from it as more and more users get frustrated by various issues. Case in point; we have already seen a number of users move away from IE to Mozilla and now FireFox as an alternative.. All MS had to do was build a PopUp blocker into their browser and many would likely have stayed.

    This is just a perspective from an "ISP" that sees and supports all types of OS's and Browsers..

    But again, I agree with your point above.

    No, my point is not at all about who has more vulernabilities, whose OS sucks, whatever.. My point, original point as it were, is more about how those vulnerabilities are dealt with. How quickly fixes come, and of course how quickly they are patched.

    I can agree completely with your point about fixes being available for MS OS's, in an earlier post. But again, like I also mentioned in that earlier post, the admins have to actually patch the boxes. :)

    I am just giving my take from my own experience/perspective as an ISP. I see all type of OS's, all types of problems, etc.. The most prolific issues conern or are centered around MS products. Cause they are more popular? Perhaps. Cause more people have Windows running on their PC? Again, perhaps.. Cause the MS OS is junk? Perhaps... Again, these are opinions, not fact.

    I will say this though. As far as Colo goes there is one and only one OS that in the last 8 years has had my but down to our NOC more than any other OS, and always at times like Christmas Eve, Easter, my Son's b-day, 3AM on a Sunday. That OS is Windows. This may not be indicative of Windows being more flawed than another OS, it is likely purely coinsendence. Whatever it be, when it happens I spend the next day bitching about Windows :)

    Anyway, in short I think we can all admit that most of what is said about differences/flaws is more opinion than fact. It does get people heated though.

    Peace.
     
    Mia, Nov 14, 2004 IP
  5. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #85
    Softie is in big trouble, why do you think Ballmer is pushing for a $100.00 PC :confused:

    Because folks will not really need one down the road to pick up email, IM or store files as Network and mobile computing will make possible to do everything needed using the ASP data center model.

    Professionals will move to Linux or Apple platforms because of security.

    Consumers will not need a desktop since they will use wireless broadband data connections for mobile computing and telephone down the road.

    Microsoft knows this and has their "CE" for mobile units that has 49% share of that market and is hurting PALM by taking share away from them.
     
    anthonycea, Nov 14, 2004 IP
  6. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #86
    Yes but again MSIE still has in excess of 90% of the market share and part of the reason many have moved to alternate browsers is the mistaken belief that those alternate browsers aren't vulnerable to similar (if not the same) attacks. That worries me: If people are doing this instead of installing adequate antivirus, anti-malware, and firewall software and maintaining updates for known security flaws, it is only a matter of time before we again have email servers slwoing to a crawl because of another Sobig or Nagle or whatever the next big thing is...

    Absolutely. My own ISP (not the server for my sites) did virtually nothing until September 2003 when email and internet access slowed to a crawl, as it did in many other parts of the world, and suibscribers flooded their phone lines with complaints. THEN they applied certain security measures that really should have been in place months earlier...

    Most likely explanation: New computer users are most likely to buy a computer with a Windows operating system bundled with Microsoft software. Then, not knowing what they are doing or anything about viruses, trojans, worms, spyware, or even how to defrag their hard drives, they will run into trouble eventually. And when they do, lacking the technical knowledge or interest to find out what went wrong and repair it, they will haul their complaints to you, the ISP, or to the local computer repair shop. Why doesn't this happen as often with Linux? Because the people running Linux are far more likely to have some idea how to fix the problem on their own or to know where to find the information they need to do it online. Simply, you won't see them or hear from them because they'll fix it themselves.

    By the way, mia, I am not a Linux basher. My own websites are hosted on Linux servers. In the past I've used Unix and NT/IIS. I prefer *nix servers because it's easier (perhaps due as much to familiarity) for me to do things I need to do with the sites - like redirection, custom error pages, changing permissions on subfolders, password protecting certain directories, etc.
     
    minstrel, Nov 14, 2004 IP
  7. mushroom

    mushroom Peon

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    #87
    I just finished reading the " The Novell Antitrust Complaint ..." at Groklaw http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20041115214025458
    It is very long and there are to many good parts to quote any of it here.
    But as expected Novell's people have done their home work and there are 177 paragraphs in the complaint,
    with many of them ending with reference to findings already accepted by the court, others that quote section of law that has been breached.
    After reading the complaint I do not think there is any question as to will it succeed or not, the question is how much.

    It is now clear to me why Microsoft has settled with so many companies in past year, they saw this coming and knew it would be a blue print for other companies that have been wronged by Microsoft in the past to file suit, and with a settlement in place those companies are taken out of the picture.
     
    mushroom, Nov 17, 2004 IP
  8. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #88
    I'm going to assume that's a rhetorical question and that you know full well the answer is, "No, of course not".
     
    minstrel, Nov 17, 2004 IP
  9. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #89
    CBS Marketwatch has a great article on Network Computing/Grid Computing/Mobile Computing/Data Center ASP computing/Google Computing and how it is a threat to M$ as I have been discussing for a while.

    http://cbs.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/newsarticle.asp?guid={DDB53A9F-10F9-433D-A942-3D808F821E09}&siteid=mktw&dist=nbk&symb=

    This model is the wave of the future, the use of broadband wireless internet connections to access the Data Center CPU where your files will be stored and all of your software applications will also reside.
     
    anthonycea, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  10. Daniel

    Daniel Peon

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    #90
    hehehe I agree with Minstrel,

    As crappy of a product as Microsoft's Windows is. I somehow think Microsoft will never die. It would be nice to see if they decide to go open source in the future though :)
     
    Daniel, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  11. mushroom

    mushroom Peon

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    #91
    When your at the top there is only one way to go and when that down spriral starts it may be imposible to stop.

    Microsoft windows has very little to offer that dose not have better, safer, and cheaper alternative and the world as a whole is just waking up to that fact.

    Just as the use of the horse and buggy have faded into obscurity so will windows.

    With all the patent violations Microsoft has been conviced of, it is highly unlikely that the windows code will ever by made public.
     
    mushroom, Nov 21, 2004 IP
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  12. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #92
    mushroom, all I can say is rest assured... you will fall into obscurity long before Microsoft.
     
    minstrel, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  13. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #93
    I have to agree.. Just because certain aspects of MS's biz may fade, that does not mean they are relying on having one product or service. They are quite diverse, as all of us should be in our businesses. It is an ever changing landscape folks, and it the key to survival for anyone in this industry is to continually adapt to the changing market.

    Look at Apple.. A few years back people were calling them dead, and even at their worst, they still had 8 billion in cash in the bank. They continue to adapt, inovate, and look for other place to generate new revenue and or compliment their current product line. I really do not see where MS is any different.

    All anyone has to do is look at a company like IBM which has been called dead several times in their history. And they have been around a LONG time! You just adapt.
     
    Mia, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  14. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #94
    Yeah, they need that $100.00 PC that Ballmer has been discussing because other than that they will have a hard time selling Windows OS down the road.

    Microsoft is already developing ITV (internet television) that will be the next generation of OS for convergence of television and computers.

    Learn more now at the following search link that has many pages linked about Comcast and Microsoft's investment and ITV OS that Comcast is using.

    http://www.windseek.com/query?q=microsoft+comcast&submit.x=14&submit.y=5

    Microsoft has money and they buy their way into businesses and market share.

    They invested in Corel to take their Linux product out of the market place and they are spreading propaganda about Linux now to try to stop it again.

    Microsoft is all smoke and mirrors on this threat to sue Linux users because of patents, they can not stop the open source movement.
     
    anthonycea, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  15. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #95
    If they come out with a $100 pc, how pray tell do you figure they will have a hard time selling Windows? If they are selling a $100 pc in the future, you can be that windows will be on it. That in and of itself is still selling windows ...
     
    Mia, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  16. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #96
    I said selling Windows, not giving it away to keep users on board, that is what they will resort to and make money by locking in users somehow.

    They will be the default search engine on all those cheap Windows boxes, RIGHT?
     
    anthonycea, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  17. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #97
    But isn't that what they have always done? Think about it.. Why do you think they have such a captive audience and market share? It has never been a question of what is better, cheaper, faster, etc... They will likely not make that $100 pc.. Someone else will. Actually, all pc makers will (save for Apple), and then MS will strike a licencing deal where by all those $100 pcs must have MS Windows on them.

    Again, this is what they have always done. Makes perfect sense to me. I'm not a Windows fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I really respect and admire the way they have run and continue to run their business. They make money.
     
    Mia, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  18. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #98
    The deck is now stacked against the PC itself, mobile computing with Data Center ASP's are the future.

    The data center will act as the computing on demand center, storage of files and software applications will all be in these one stop shops.

    You will simply need a simple access device to gain this power.
     
    anthonycea, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  19. mushroom

    mushroom Peon

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    #99
    1. Microsoft fears Linux.
    A few years ago Linux was being used as a bargaining ploy by large companies and governments to get a price break from Microsoft and it worked.
    Today it works even better and can be used to obtain huge cost savings from Microsoft, but some are not bluffing and are moving to Linux.

    2. The OS has it's problems
    It is plagued by a never ending supply of malware.
    Most malware requires 3th party software to remove or prevent it, with only a minimum being done at the OS level.
    Time from discovery to exploit is very short making it hard if not impossible to keep up-dated.
    The OS being so large and intergrated, patches some times break more that they fix.

    3. Open source software has matured.
    Much of the internet runs on open source software php apache mysql and the list goes on and on
    Most computer user even the ones using windows rely on free software much of it being open source.
    Many people now use and trust open source software.

    4. Microsoft relies almost completely on license fees for proprietary software.
    No one likes high prices.
    Good or even better open source alternatives are available for most things.

    5. Microsoft has been found guilty of antitrust violations in the past.
    It has been and is being sued over more of them.
    It has already paid out millions in out of court settlements perhaps billions.
    And there is no telling how many more there will be.
    Monpolistic practices it has used in the past like vendor lock-in, are no longer acceptable.

    6. Microsoft has been found guilty of patent violations in the past.
    It has already paid out billions in court and out of court settlements.
    Just how many more there are, or what it will cost them remains to be seen.

    7. Microsoft depends on the upgrade cycle for much of it's revenue.
    Longhorn's release has been delayed, reducing Microsoft's cash flow.
    The experience of XP, SP1, and SP2 will delay adoption of Longhorn when it dose come out.
    This delay will cause more people to seek alternate OS's.

    8. Microsoft is it own worst enemy.
    Bad and misleading statements by it's CEO and others are getting people angry at Microsoft leading to fewer and fewer people that like or trust Microsoft.

    9. The open source movement has grown so large that even Microsoft can stop it.
    Microsoft knew that a long time ago, and their goal appears to be to slow it down with Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) and you can only spread so much of that before people stop believing you.

    10. Linux is ready or very soon will be.
    By the time Longhorn is released Linux will have proved itself as a safe, secure, easy to use, and quality operating system for both the corporate and home users to the point that many people would not install Longhorn even if you paid them to do so.
     
    mushroom, Nov 21, 2004 IP
  20. darksat

    darksat Guest

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    #100
    Microsoft is a long way from dead but I think they are going to loose the place as the dominant player in the market.

    Viva Linux
     
    darksat, Nov 22, 2004 IP
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