Like i said, Your unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence isn't worth anything. We can all invent "friends" who agree with us.
Mia, I didn't take it this way, and I do understand. I just think Stox felt unduly picked out in my quoting him, and in my case, perhaps he was right. I did get from your post that you had actually talked to vets, and formed your opinion accordingly; while it seemed to me Stox was relying on something other than direct talks with vets. Hence, I did believe your "they" was quite different from Stox's. But perhaps I should have just posted the statistics (the opinion poll) and left well enough alone. My personal experience is 2 family members who served - 2 marines. They are both squarely in support of the effort. I have talked with other vets who feel the same way; other vets who feel the cause was right, but feel we blew it in execution; and others who just plain feel we had no business being there in the first place. Edited to add: Oh, good god, Stox, there you go again - didn't see your post until after mine. When you have nothing else, you resort to calling people a liar, as you are here with Mia; you'll recall you did the same to me regarding my stand on monitoring the pedophile lists in my neighborhood. Is the opinion poll from the military times, a poll of active veterans, also just "unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence?" Am I, too, just coming up with "unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence" in stating I have family who are vets who served in Iraq and who support the war, even though I'm against the damn thing? In taking this tack, you simply gut whatever credibility you would hold in making your points - do you really not see this?
For what it is worth, I am trying to honestly convey to you what I have heard from people who actually serve, not from what I read in the NY Times, or see on PMSNBC.... You're free to interpret reality any way you see fit.. I respect that. I've not really collected statistics... It was not my intent to form an opinion poll... My cousin is a Navy Corpsman and his only negative take on the war has been the negativity that he hears from media coverage, and people who demean his service. I was talking to a good friend at the Y who is in the service, as is her husband. She said he is leaving this weekend for tour number 3 in Afghanistan. She is due to ship out again soon as well.. She was complaining about Congress... She and her husband are upset that a democratically controlled congress cannot make up its mind. By make up its mind she was referring to giving stable and consistent support to troops that need things, like money, ammo, and other ordinance. I heard nothing negative from her about Bush, or the war itself. Some other friends I have are pretty quiet about the whole thing. It is evident that their service is taking a toll on them, and they are quite reserved. But when someone makes a statement about oil, Bush's war, or any other ignorant catch phrase it's pretty apparent if they were armed they'd be pumping lead into the idiots touting this crap. I'm not there, nor are you, or Stox... That said, I don't think we really have any right to form an opinion based solely on a hatred of Bush, what the media says, or what phony solders try to pass off as the real deal. I was a Marine brat, and it was not until some 30 years later that my dad opened up and began to talk his experiences as a Marine during Vietnam. What he described first was not the war. He told me of being spit on, having rocks thrown at him, and basically crapped on for simply having served his country. He did so not voluntarily, but as a draftee. It's amazing to me to think that of all the horror of that war, the one thing that sticks with him more than anything is how his fellow countryman treated him. There are some sick bastards in this world, but none sicker than those that he described. What people like Stox do is no different. It's sick, its sad, and beyond despicable. There is no shame in respecting those that give you the right to be an asshole. My suggestion to Stox and others like him is to write to a solder, visit with their family, listen to what they are saying... Good or bad, listen. Then thank them for serving you. Every vet I come into contact with, whether it be out of the blue in public if I seem them in uniform, or I talk to someone that tells me they serve. First and foremost I always stop and thank them. The look on their face when you say this is worth more than anything in the world. Stox, when was the last time you thanked a Vet? Thank them for serving for me and my family. Semper Fi. I would have to say I have seen opinions complaining about execution as well... At least many of the mistakes of Vietnam have not been repeated. This time our solders are aloud to shoot. It's Veterans Day in America on Monday. Be sure to thank anyone you know that is serving, remember those we lost and support those that give you the right to your own opinion.
I always like hearing from those serving, I do find it odd though I am told the complete opposite from those who have been in Iraq. Most I have talked to do not paint a very good picture, even those who like what they are doing, say things are getting better, etc are not sold on us being there in the first place. Afghanistan soldiers though I think appear to be a bit different from my experience, more than likely because it had actual terror relations to 9/11 unlike Iraq. Either way, not here to debate it. I find it refreshing talking to our brave men and women who served our country
They don't fight for me, certainly not in this war. Honestly, if you had any respect for the people serving you would have something to say about them being bullet sponges for corporations. This isn't a noble war for a noble cause, I am astonished there are still people who haven't seen this.
Who ever said Iraq had anything to do with 9/11? They do. That you fail to realize that is quite disturbing. Yeah, those mean nasty corporations...
Many people, that however was not my point. My point was it appears the ones I have talked to see a difference from a war for protecting the country, and one that isn't.
No, They don't. if there was fighting to be done on my behalf i would do it myself. This is a bullshit war for bullshit reasons. Pull your head out of the sand. Are you one of those people who still think the war was for a good reason? I'll tell you what the war is for. It's to protect american business interests in the middle east and to implement a permanent base there.
Yes they do. It's only bull shit if you are a terrorist. Is that a rhetorical question? Yeah, those mean nasty corporations...
Mia, I'm a vet, hospital corpsman, and do hear what you are saying, in many ways. Like you, my family was affected by Vietnam. My oldest brother died this year. Served in Vietnam and never really came out, and I mourn him very badly. A good friend of mine, Tom Tipps, R.I.P., he, too, never quite made it out, either. Anyway. Please give your dad a big hug for me - all honors to him, and to every vet. Not just Monday, but every day. And I am absolutely in synch with you, buddy - you thank a vet, you know what they gave, and these silent heroes get a little bit of joy too rarely given out, I'm afraid. It doesn't cost anything to say "thanks," but it pays so much.
Enforcing a UN Resolution.. Do you want me to cite if for you... Will do! Thank you as well... My Father - in - law served in Korea. Dad in Vietnam, Grandfather on one side in the Army Air Corps flying 75 missions in Europe in WWII. My other grandfather in WWII in the Italian Navy and US Army as OSS. He was a POW and was there when Mussolini was hung upside down... Each has influenced me in many ways, all of which have been quite positive.
You know you can't just decide to enforce stuff on your own right? The war was illegal and didn't conform to the UN charter. it's a bit hypocritical to enforce UN resolutions in a way that contravenes the UN charter.
That is your opinion.. it's a bit hypocritical to enfofrce UN resolutions in a way that contravines the UN charter.[/quote] Again, your opinion..