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Methods for Improving the Directory Sector

Discussion in 'Directories' started by swedal, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. dog222

    dog222 Active Member

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    #41
    You hit the nail on the head. It's mainly for promotion reasons. What's wrong with that?
    SEMrush
    Just curious - There's a lot of crappy blogs out there. Should WordPress start charging for their script? :rolleyes:
     
    dog222, Jul 28, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. SilkySmooth

    SilkySmooth Well-Known Member

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    #42
    Hey Guys,

    I haven`t been very active in this side of the forum for a while, namely because I am too busy with other projects, but this thread caught my eye.

    The reason it caught my eye is because I was thinking about setting up something similar to what is being discussed in this thread a couple of years ago. As such I registered the domain name www.directoryassociation.org but that was around the time Google started handing out penalties and people were leaving left right and center it just didn't seem worthwhile committing the time to such a project.

    I personally don't have the time to get involved in such a project right now, but I would be happy to donate the use of the domain if someone else were interested in setting something up and taking a lead. I would be happy to do this on the basis that it is set up as a not-for-profit organisation for the greater good of this industry.

    As I say, I don't have time to really get involved as I just have way too much going on that I would just be a hindrance to any efforts. But... when I was thinking about doing this myself I did have a few thoughts so I will put them below and you lot can debate.

    My first thought was how could I start such a project, was I considered authoritative enough that people would listen to me and my ideas on how it should work. Should it be left to just me, one person in charge. No, we (most of us) live in a democratic society therefore everything should be put to a vote by a number of select peers.

    So how do we select the peers? I was thinking of having 5 peers that way anything that went down to a vote would always end in a decision. What I planned to do was invite everyone who wanted to be a peer to enter their name and then open a public vote. The 5 with the most votes would become the peers for a period of x months.

    The peers would be responsible for drafting the rules of accreditation (what makes a good directory) any edits, etc.. moving forward would need to be voted on. These five peers would also be responsible for checking submissions to the system to see if the directories met the accreditation guidelines. They would also vote on changes to the project, e.g. should there be a section which teaches the basics of PHP as per pipes suggestion. Then the people within the community who poses such skills would be able to draft the content which would make up such a section of the site. Obviously only accredited members would have access otherwise we would just be teaching the very people we are trying to stop.

    The whole point of the system is that no one person has overall control and every decision that is made is done so democratically.

    Obviously it would require quite a bit of development, the accreditation system, the membership system, the voting system, etc, etc. Then there is the content to educate the masses about good directorys, how to spot the bad ones, how to submit correctly, etc. All of which would need to be drafted and voted on.

    So you get the idea. That, roughly is how I envisaged such a system working.

    Finally, as for the accreditation system which has been discussed. Based on my own knowledge, the best and most trusted way of doing such things is what I call the SSL style. Point your browsers to the following site: My Chefs Favorites

    Scroll down the page and look to the lower left "Shopping Information" block. There you will find a GoDaddy site seal which validates the SSL certificate on this web site (Clicking it will open a pop up window with validation information). It is an image which is created on pageload and therefore cannot be clicked and simply copied. GoDaddy use this system as well as DigiCert and I am sure I have seen others.

    Either way I think it would be a good programmable solution which an0n would be more than capable of developing (hey, you asked for the specs :p)

    Now all you need is someone to take the lead, someone to offer design skills and someone to offer some hosting.
     
    SilkySmooth, Jul 28, 2009 IP
    swedal likes this.
  3. discover

    discover Notable Member

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    #43
    I think this sounds workable and 5 peers would hopefully provide a good representation of directory owners at least from DP

    The main problem I see is getting already very busy webmasters to devote a sizeable amount of time to develop the project.

    All the people needed to design, write content and provide hosting etc are already active within this forum which will help.
    I would be willing to offer some finance to help get things started for instance.

    In regards to the content needed to make a comprehensive guide to directories for both submitter and webmaster well I think the majority of the content is already within this forum and it would be a matter of pulling it all together.

    The validity of the site seal is very important so the validation solution sounds like it could work
     
    discover, Jul 28, 2009 IP
  4. DownUnder

    DownUnder Well-Known Member

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    #44
    1 directory owner = 1 vote , 5 people is to small as a deciding factor, if it were to work then all members vote , and make changes

    maybe the 5 peers / directors can make a deciding vote if tied, but these 5 are also voted in and out by all.

    you get 5 close knit people with all authority it will never work there will be no trust and it would only be time before fractions broke away and in fighting starts
     
    DownUnder, Jul 28, 2009 IP
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  5. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #45
    Several issues raised since my last post...

    profit/not-for-profit -- every "authority directory list" that is run on a for-profit basis degraded into a massive list of everything rather than a list of quality. What the short-sighted here don't seem to be understanding is that if there is some sort of accreditation process, the quality directories will see the benefit$.

    free script versions - perhaps a much bigger problem are the mods to download DMOZ or the free database dumps to "jump start" categorization and listings. I have more ill-feelings toward the script owners that participate in that nonsense than providing free versions of their script.

    A committee of 5 would be too easy to stack. Perhaps go a step further and have a board with 2 or 3 owners representing each of the directory types - general paid & free, niche paid & free and bid (not a fan but others are plus that makes an odd number of board members but unfortunately does stack it in favor of paid directories). If we were serious about this perhaps we could also have 2 or 3 script owners as well.

    General membership should be invitation only.

    A directory is either accredited or not - no PR, page strength or any of that nonsense - in or out period. None of that who sends who traffic silliness either.

    Part of me wonders if we are going about this a bit wrong. There is someone who has been waving the banner of quality and maintaining the highest quality directory list for years. Should we not be thinking about how we can build on what he's already done and work together with him to take it to the next step?
     
    YMC, Jul 28, 2009 IP
  6. web-fanatic

    web-fanatic Banned

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    #46
    I never started a directory, but used to follow this forums.
    The web directory business took an entirely wrong path.
    Everyone wanted to make $$$ with web directories, so paid listing of spam sites started.It went to such a high that even Google penalized many sites for this
    Because of this many genuine web directories faced problems and facing too.

    The best solution is to build "authority directory list"
    branding the "authority directory list" is important
    Co-ordination is the most important thing imo

    Thank you
    web-fanatic
     
    web-fanatic, Jul 28, 2009 IP
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  7. swedal

    swedal Notable Member

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    #47
    @web-fanatic - You probably don't realize that Authority Directory is trademarked.... I would be very careful about building anything that infringes upon my trademark.
     
    swedal, Jul 28, 2009 IP
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  8. alistair80

    alistair80 Well-Known Member

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    #48
    Hi everyone,

    Very nice thread started by Bruce. It's good to see there are people who actually care for the industry and are willing to make it better. I'd like to throw my 2 cents too:

    Personally I believe education creates standards. You'll always find webmasters creating good directories and spammy directories...its like black hat and white hat, it's like spamming and not spamming! Those who don't care about quality never probably will! It's not just about the availability of free scripts but its just that many directory owners don't realize the amount of effort it requires to create a good directory: from creating categories to guidelines, from promoting it to reviewing sites.

    Many believe that having directory could be a way to make quick money and they approve any keyword in the title and/or description...Many don't even visit the sites that they are supposed to "review".

    Although we can help make the industry better and we should, we can't make those care who never will!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
    alistair80, Jul 29, 2009 IP
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  9. gailmeat

    gailmeat Peon

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    #49
    Thank alot I have one project for starting look like seo but I'm still learning for how to get best backlink high quality page rank and high quality visitor traffic now.
    Between Don't care about pr of backlink site by submit all directory and care pagerank backlink site by select great pagerank web directory.
    Now I think the first method may be great full for traffic more.
    This my idea may be wrong.
     
    gailmeat, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  10. swedal

    swedal Notable Member

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    #50
    I do believe that education may be part of improving directories for everyone. People keep mentioning it so it must be a common feeling among the owners here. However what I see is it being mentioned as some mysterious, elusive and ethereal concept rather than backed up with concrete steps or methods for going out and educating the masses.

    Personally I have written and distributed more articles than I care to remember on the topic. What about some actual concrete steps for people to take in educating others? A blog has been mentioned which I am honestly unsure about how effective it would be. A method of educating working with a certification program may have more teeth but I feel that for any certification to be seen as credible it would need the support of a major directory.

    I never really thought it was just about free directory scripts. Whole point of the thread was to get a brainstorming session going among owners to get them thinking in terms of making positive changes for the future. There have been some nice suggestions and hopefully they will get us all thinking in ways we can make improvements going forward as individuals and possibly collectively.

    I mentioned the free directory scripts as an example to get the discussion going because it is one of the larger issues I see. They enable people to put up directories with no investment. No investment means they can put them up by the thousands with little or no thought on the things it takes to make them quality. Free directory scripts are a big problem imo - they are also not the only way we can make improvements.

    When I made my initial point though people started thinking of only one company providing those scripts even though I did not name any company and there are several. Then pm's start flying to numerous people from interested parties to make points and post defenses to offering the free scripts. No one here deny's free scripts are a problem the only defense seems to be - (summarizing from a pm) - no longer offering it would have little effect on its usage.

    Personally I don't buy into that. If script companies stopped offering the free versions it would be a start. To actually get somewhere it is the same for everyone. It starts with one step then another and another after that.

    I couldn't agree more with you as to the time and effort that it takes to make a quality directory. I am reminded of it every day of late.
     
    swedal, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  11. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #51
    Take away the ability to download a category dump and pre-fill a directory and it will eliminate a huge percentage of the get rich quick folks. If they actually have to build something, they won't bother in the first place.

    One script, now somewhat defunct, did not make those dumps available. It's too bad the others bowed to the pressure of the lazy folks who couldn't be bothered doing it themselves.

    I would suspect many here started with a free script - either in production or test mode. The script sellers are not going to take their "try it before you buy it" carrot away - we don't have a big enough stick.

    Broad educational ideas...

    This section of DP must get a moderator! DP has become known as a place for new directory owners to promote their sites. It's unfortunately become a free-for-all and has made it even more attractive to spammers. I suspect there are many here who are willing to moderate but would prefer not to take the task on alone. Perhaps DP would allow 2 or 3 members to moderate this section?

    Explore the legal and forum policy guidelines and see if a moderator could add a disclaimer to the "new PR x" submission threads with something like "Please note that a new site with PR may not retain the current PR score with the next update and make your submissions accordingly." (It would have to be general info that does not accuse or assume that the "new directory" will in fact lose the score.)
     
    YMC, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  12. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #52
    If people want improvement, why are the suggestions so narrow?

    I dont think anyone is willing to move out of their comfort zone.

    If free scripts were a problem then why are not all wordpress blogs screwed?

    Why do people just want to duplicate the old talk elsewhere?

    Think back and realise why the other threads and discussion on this matter never lead to anything.

    You're ignoring the obvious, and choosing to chat about the easier options.
     
    pipes, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  13. syted

    syted Notable Member

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    #53
    Sorry you've lost me, what is the 'obvious'? Because it isn't to me.
     
    syted, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  14. enQuira

    enQuira Peon

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    #54
    You are talking about the same thing, Stoner also means content (the category structure and the listings) when he says database.
    The technology used is important of course but it is far from being the first quality criterion.
     
    enQuira, Jul 29, 2009 IP
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  15. discover

    discover Notable Member

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    #55
    Well if he means the content in the database then it's the same thing yea
    a database must of course function properly but a directory doesn't need a database to function as it can be a simple list of sites on an html page

    In regards to the discussion I see it as a much better idea for a group of directory owners to start by building a good solid resource offering information on how to run a directory and what submitters should be aware of when looking for a quality directory
    I think the lack of this awareness is part of the problem and it needs to be addressed

    The accreditation could be worked on after this but noone should underestimate how much commitment will be required to put together an association or organisation offering accreditation

    removing free script downloads may make it a little more difficult to get a directory up and running with no investment but I really think its too little too late (that's even if you get any support at all from the script makers anyway)
     
    discover, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  16. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #56
    :)

    The obvious is "change" and not talking about it, nobody ever does that.

    This isn't the first thread of its kind, i already said on the first page, nearly all of us dont have basic web development skills, thats insane, all we rabble on about is seo and directory this n that but we havn't got a clue how to set half of the things up to create a decent website.

    So... who are we to point the finger at crap directories when currently we have not much better to offer, in the way of our own directories and our own skills or lack of them.

    Much easier to blame free directory scripts, search engines, past directory owners etc etc when really we could be trying to improve ourselves instead.

    Understandably some wont have the time to invest into learning, others simply wont want to, basically no change will come from just chatting.
     
    pipes, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  17. alistair80

    alistair80 Well-Known Member

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    #57
    Lately it seems that many directory owners have been contacted by a growing independent search engines and directories network. These guys promote paid search and try to allure directory owners into joining them so they can "monetize" their directories. After taking a look at their members' list I didn't find a single reputed directory! Most directories in the list are poorly maintained and have little to no editorial standards. If these guys have been able to create a "network" in which most members seem to own poor quality sites, creating a system that would fight this type of network is probably possible.

    Also, many directory issues also started with owners promoting their directories by highlighting one single thing: its PR! This has led many to thinking that PageRank is THE most important thing for a directory...
     
    alistair80, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  18. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #58
    Thats why theres so many directory owners with a limp now. :)
     
    pipes, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  19. an0n

    an0n Prominent Member

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    #59
    i think not only have you never ran, walked or crawled, but you are actually going backwards.

    'single page directories' .. dear god... do you realize how nonsensical that sounds? lol

    quite the contrary as it doesn't matter to me. i am unbiased, unlike yourself, and you could only WISH to be in such a position.


    i do kno what to do; i call on the cockeyed posters such as yourself.

    you do since you felt compelled to mention it, even after i gave you a sig in it.
     
    an0n, Jul 29, 2009 IP
  20. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

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    #60
    The last few posts exemplify why nothing will ever change. Between the folks with their "it will never happen unless we do some nebulous something" and the others who degrade conversations into a meaningless debate; it shouldn't come as a surprise that so many of these threads have led nowhere.
     
    YMC, Jul 29, 2009 IP