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Matt Cutts Gives Insight To Bigdaddy

Discussion in 'Google' started by Las Vegas Homes, May 16, 2006.

  1. SEO Jeff

    SEO Jeff Active Member

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    #41
    minstrel I am glad we both think it's not webmaster's problems but more Google's problem in this whole crappy bigdaddy stuff. And to be honest the coop I don't think has anything related to all this for people who use coop because I have 3 sites that host the coop code and only 2 are effected by pages dropped and the other 1 is fully indexed to me.
    SEMrush
     
    SEO Jeff, May 16, 2006 IP
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    SEMrush
  2. maldives

    maldives Prominent Member

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    #42
    An interesting thread. Very informative.
     
    maldives, May 16, 2006 IP
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  3. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #43
    Excellent point, NMW!
     
    minstrel, May 16, 2006 IP
  4. Big Richard

    Big Richard Peon

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    #44
    What concerns me most id this one:

    As far as irrelevant goes, then mortgages have nothing to do with real estate sales?

    My god how relevant do you have to be? Surely this is a mistake by Matt as I would have thought that you you would be pretty hard pushed to get a more relevant type of link!!!

    If this type of association is unacceptable what next:
    - Webmaster sites cant link to hosting sites?
    - Finance sites can't link to credit card sites?
    - Betting sites can't link to poker sites?

    This seems absolutley rediculous - what are they trying to do - destroy the web!!!
     
    Big Richard, May 17, 2006 IP
  5. Roman

    Roman Buffalo Tamer™

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    #45
    I was just thinking, a lot of sites use google search to provide search results on their sites, but if they don't have the pages indexed then the search will be useless so they'll drop it. Now let's say that each site had one visitor use the google box for a search, as more and more sites drop the google search Google will get less and less traffic.

    Surely the brains at Google must see this and not want it to happen thus what Matt is proposing as fact can be severely detrimental to Google's future.

    I'm no marketing expert, but I'd have concerns over what is going on if in fact Matt is correct.

    On the other hand, if something was majorly wrong with Google I would come out and say the exact same things that Matt is saying as if it ever was proven that there are problems, stock prices would surely plummet.
     
    Roman, May 17, 2006 IP
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  6. TheHoff

    TheHoff Peon

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    #46
    Also, why are existing pages in the index not being updated?

    I've been doing a little Link Vault experiment with an old domain.. not my domain and not my site, but it has been around since '98 and has a lot of natural IBLs; however it wasn't ranking for anything significant.

    5 weeks ago I had the owner of the site change the page title and some on-page elements. Since then, I've dumped 4k of vaultage at it with 60 new links going at it every day... this is full bore Link Vault going at top speed placing links pointing to only one page. The experiment was to see if putting a ton of LV on an old existing domain would have a positive or negative effect. The effect has been ONLY positive. Huge jumps in the terms I was going for. While not commercial terms, they are competitive and with millions of results. It is now in top 10 for four good keywords and phrases.

    THE GOOGLE CACHE HAS NEVER UPDATED WITH THIS SITE... 5 weeks ago the page was changed... on an old "trusted" domain.... receiving thousands of new IBLs.... and not once has Google updated its cache. That is broken. It used to be that you would wait 2 to 3 days to see a title change reflected in the SERPs.
     
    TheHoff, May 17, 2006 IP
  7. iShopHQ

    iShopHQ Peon

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    #47
    A copy of my post on Matt Cutt's blog: http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/indexing-timeline/

    I agree it’s important to filter out low value sites (although it’s debatable what low-value means). Unfortunately, the same techniques used to promote such sites are the same as legitmate sites.

    As a webmaster with a limited budget trying to get a new site going, or drive more traffic to an existing site, what are the options? No reciprocal, can’t buy links, can’t sell links, can’t compete with the big boys (Walmart, Target, Amazon, Overstock, Ebay…) in PPC …. what’s a webmaster to do?

    Soon top Google results will be primarily big companies with big name recognition. Of course such sites gets thousands of back links. How could it not? But what about poor JoesSunglassStand? Sorry Joe, McDonalds is hiring. Or there’s PPC if you have the cash to go against the afore mentioned companies (not likely).

    I don’t think you can determine a web site’s subjective value with an objective algorithm. And now the small webmaster’s site doesn’t even show in the results because he doesn’t have a few hundred natural backlinks, or he sold a link for $10 to a Ringtone or Credit Card site.

    Despite all Google’s efforts, I can still easily find sites using black hat techniques (such as cloaking) that appear high in Google results. Here’s one I’ve reported a half dozen times if not more:

    term: comforter sets
    linensource.com – Offers Down Comforter Sets
    linensource.com – Your one-stop source for all your down comforter set needs. The Linen Source offers a wide variety of down comforter sets.
    www.linensource.com/down_comforter_set.asp

    The asp page is a cloaked page that redirects the user to the main site.

    I applaude Google’s efforts to bring order to chaos, but I can’t help but think that they are doing in a manner that is more and more exclusionary to the small website owner.

    It seems to be a fact of societal evolution that democracies eventually ‘evolve’ into republics, where the power and wealth ultimately end up residing in the hands of an elite few, rather than being equitably spread through the population.

    The irrefutable guiding principle of our undeniable monetized society is inescapable. When it comes to search engine position of ecommerce sites, it’s not about who is most deserving, it’s about who has the most money. Mega sites with name recognition and multi million dollar traditional media marketing budgets are taking over the serps, and it’s only going to get worse.

    If you want to make a site about the mating habits of New England barn owls, or any other esoteric research topic, you can do great in Google. But if you want to run an online business that relies on the sales of products or services, you’re in for a tough time.
     
    iShopHQ, May 17, 2006 IP
  8. nedguy

    nedguy Peon

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    #48
    I agree with SportsOutlaw. Something's still broken at Google and I don't really care anymore. Either they'll fix it or their competitors will take over. What's changed for me is that after nine months of this, I'm just no longer bothered about 'when'.

    Yes, I'm seeing more traffic from other search engines. I stopped using Google for searching 2 or 3 months ago because it just isn't very good anymore and although Google-lovers will rush as usual to defend Google's prowess as a search engine, I doubt I'm the only searcher who has switched. I suspect the numbers are small but growing.

    I don't hate Google. In fact I rather like the company and its ethos. It would be great if they could get on top of the game again.

    But, like SportsOutlaw, I don't care anymore.
     
    nedguy, May 17, 2006 IP
  9. jimkarter

    jimkarter Notable Member

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    #49
    I also have recently changed my homepage from google.com to search.yahoo.com but I still care about google because as of now it is the biggest traffic sender for me.. but now I think I need to concentrate more on yahoo and MSN.
     
    jimkarter, May 17, 2006 IP
  10. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #50
    Leaving aside the question of LV for the moment, this is similar to the point I have been trying to make.

    One of my forums dropped from several thousand pages indexed to 2 to 7 pages depending on the day.

    Yet PR actually increased in the update and Google ranking for the main search terms is at it has been for the past year - fluctuating among the top 5 listings depending on the specific search term. That does not make sense to me.

    I really do not know WHAT is broken at Google. I just know that something is.
     
    minstrel, May 17, 2006 IP
  11. TheHoff

    TheHoff Peon

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    #51
    Don't feel bad; neither does Google :D
     
    TheHoff, May 17, 2006 IP
  12. Indian

    Indian Peon

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    #52
    This actually means that we cannot afford to buy or sell links. In the post Matt clearly states that the links are irrelevant to the site due to which there is a problem. Alot of sites using the DP co-op ads are scrapped by the Big Daddy. IMO the only way co-op can work on google is by showing relevant links. As of now no co-op for me :mad:
     
    Indian, May 17, 2006 IP
  13. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #53
    LOL! Apparently not!

    Cutts has been telling people this for months.

    That latest post by Cutts tells me my decision to get out of the Coop last fall was a correct one. YMMV of course. But the issues affecting some of my sites and those of many other people cannot be explained by the things Cutts is talking about: no purchased links, no high ratio of irrelevant outgoing links, no Coop or other link schemes.
     
    minstrel, May 17, 2006 IP
  14. Roman

    Roman Buffalo Tamer™

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    #54

    What Matt said is a smoke screen.
     
    Roman, May 17, 2006 IP
  15. TheHoff

    TheHoff Peon

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    #55
    ^^ And another person scared off by rumors created by Google staff.


    >>Alot of sites using the DP co-op ads are scrapped by the Big Daddy

    And a lot of sites NOT using the co-op or any sort of link exchange are also scrapped by the Big Daddy. Don't buy into their fear mongering... Cutts is using the Google instabilities to scare people off of unnatural linking-- which is their major enemy.

    He REALLY recommends against buying hosted pages-- where you host a page on another site and provide your own page titles and IBLs. That must mean it works... and works well :D
     
    TheHoff, May 17, 2006 IP
  16. Indian

    Indian Peon

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    #56
    I feel this is a good move by Google and it will stay as it is now no matter how many ppl complain about it. People have been complaining about bad search results, MFA sites etc. Google felt bad about it and indeed they had alot of crap data which was causing problems. I am sure a few million GBs of data has been deleted off Google now. Its like they are back to square one now. I am sure in coming months all results from Google will be 100% quality results. I wont be shocked to see Yahoo or MSN follow the same step. They should rather do it the 'quite' way rather than the way Google did it making most of the webmasters hate Google.

    Lol @ the comment posted on Matt's blog:

    No matter how many ppl say this, its not going to affect Google. They know they are the Kings and will remain there till they exist.
     
    Indian, May 17, 2006 IP
  17. mad4

    mad4 Peon

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    #57
    Having read the post by Matt Cutts I went to divert all my weight from a white hat site to a throw-away site.
    When I checked the weight it had taken a massive drop so I went to google to do a site: check and sure enough the site hosting the ads had gone totally supplemental.

    I am taking coop off today and will see what happens.

    Coop weight is totally dependent on number of indexed pages so what better way for google to kill it than making coop sites go supplemental?
     
    mad4, May 17, 2006 IP
  18. TheHoff

    TheHoff Peon

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    #58
    I guess you are too young to remember AltaVista?

    hahahahhaahahahh oh man... Their CEO said that they have a "hardware crisis" and you expect perfection from a dung heap.
     
    TheHoff, May 17, 2006 IP
  19. TheHoff

    TheHoff Peon

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    #59
    One of my non-commercial sites went mostly supplemental with hundreds of 404 pages that existed 2 years ago coming up as the highest ranking pages.. it has never had LV or Co-op on it or pointed at it. It sure seems like a LOT of collateral damage if this was something intentional.
     
    TheHoff, May 17, 2006 IP
  20. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #60
    That was totally kicking ass up till this last update, it was freaking great

    I still have sites that seem really boosted up from the coop, but they are way old, pretty much I think if your site is new you can't rank, and now if your site has a shit load of recips it won't rank, although here in there I find sites with lots of recips ranking so not really sure how that works.

    Don't believe the hype, just out of curosity, if it becomes "fact" that you can't rank well in google for say 2 to 3 years, what will you guys do while your waiting.
     
    ferret77, May 17, 2006 IP