Massive Pagerank with bullshit links?

Well, dunno what you think the problem is. You both got a PR5 (ignore the predictor tool) using different link building methods, and both wound up close to each other on page 2. If what you say is right, then you shouldn't need that many more links to beat him out and hit page one, since each of the links you get weighs about 30-40 times more than his. Your job should be easier. Just get a handful more links, see what happens once they get indexed.

-Michael

 

You missed one of the details. He has about 5,000 backlinks to my 3,000 backlinks. Given that he's got a PR5 (site started in early december, so the PR5 was gotten in only a 2 month period (less actually) before a PR udpate) I find it very likely that the prediction tool will accurately predict him getting a PR6.

Even if you want to dismiss that, it doesn't change the fundamentals of this equation. Somehow this webmaster got a massive amount of PR, from just some nonsense links. Actually, I think I may have found one of them. It's a PR7, and I'm currently trying to figure out how to get one too. lol

But in any case, I also have a PR7 and a few PR6's.


frosty

So, you're saying that PR is not an issue for SERP's?

Yeah, that is very relevant to point out. However, we are both new sites (his site being about 6 months and mine being about 4 months). I was thinking that this might be part of it.

PR is a major factor in determining SERP, isn't it?

I've seen it referenced several times. It also is consistent with his current PR, and the direction mine is headed in.

I read an article written by about 10 SEO experts that say PR is a major factor in SERP's.

I've already built a quality site, now I just need good SERP placement. Also, I link to my friends PR0 sites, just to correct your gut instinct there.


frosty

 

Why are you so concerned about his PR? It has nothing to do with anything unless you are trying to sell links on your site. You even said that you're on the same page in the SERP's...so you already know that PR and the number of links makes no difference.

 

No, you missed an important detail. Our sites are new. It could be that the lack of age of our sites is what is holding us down. I am thinking in the longterm about my best link building strategy.

Also, if his strategy is so effective at getting PR, then it might be possible to increase its effectiveness on SERP's by using anchor text.

 

PR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SERPS.

There is absolutely no direct correlation between PR and SERP's. You can have a high PR by simply linking to one PR8 site, but if its just a link and no anchor, you will still be on the bottom of the SERPs with a PR7. Do you see where i'm headed?

There was a guy on here that claimed his site was indexed faster because he typed his URL into Google hundreds of times. Are you going to believe him as well?

PR does not determine you position in the SERP's.

Age is another huge factor. A PR3 page on a site from 1996 will still outrank your PR8 in the SERPS if you don't get relevant links with the proper anchor.

Everyone is an SEO expert these days. One SEO expert said linking to someone using the target="blank" attribute to open a page in a new window would decrease the value of a link.

Another moron said that linking to high PR sites will increase your PR (i.e. linking to Google will give you a high PR).

Yet another SEO expert said that using the "nofollow" attribute tells Google that you're using SEO and that they penalize you as a result.

People say a lot of things but nobody wants to use common sense.

 

Are we absolutely sure about that? I'm not so sure....

I've been fighting for my main keyword phrase for the past 5 months with 2 other websites. Since March I was a solid #2 and the other sites would occasionally flip-flop 1-3. I could never crack the #1 spot.

My site was a PR0 and the other two were either PR3 or PR4 I can't remember. Anyways, the day of the PR update - not a day before or a day later, I overtook both sites as #1 for my main keyword. I didn't make any other alterations, neither did the other two sites (from what I can tell).

So is it just an amazing cooincidence that on the day of the PR update, I overtook my 2 major competitors when I got updated to PR3? Or is it possible that PR plays a a role - albeit small - in the whole SERP calculation?

 

In order for that theory to be true...every site for every major keyword in the SERPS would be listed according to PR. Is that how it works? You got a PR3...well then how did you overtake the PR4?

 

I'd be interested to see if everyone else agrees with that.

From this article, I gather that the PR is of "exceptional importance" as the 37 authors say.

http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors

What some random guy said has nothing to do with this article (which I made reference to in the last post and in this one as well).


frosty

 

Look at how many other factors there are in that article. Are you taking those into consideration...no. Did you check for keyword density? Use of keywords on the page? Relevance of incoming links?

No you did not. You're playing with your little Prediction tool and looking at the toolbar PR...that's not how it's done. You're only focusing on the PR and on the PR of sites that link to your competitor...which is a waste of time.

You forgot to mention that there was also "Average Agreement"

I can show you a real life example.

My PR4 page outranks a PR7 site for a fairly competitive keyword. The site also has tons of backlinks. If your theory would be correct, then shouldn't I rank below them in the SERPs?

 

The only waste of time here is your childish comments. You just make a lot of stupid assumptions, which are not valid.

We were arguing about whether or not PR is important or not, not whether or not it is the ONLY important thing. Because you have failed to prove your point that it is meaningless, you now have to resort to deliberately making more poor assumptions about what I do or do not take into account rather than sticking to the issue.

Go back to looking for porn. I'm serious here.


frosty

This dimishes the point of the "exceptional importance" of PR how?

Maybe that PR7 site is only slightly related to the keyword you type in. It probably specializes in something else, and only has a slight relation to the keyword you are talking about.

 

First of all, the only one making childish remarks here is you. I am also sorry that you have to resort to making insults when you realize that you are wrong. Coming from a guy who was asking "whether or not adding too many links at once is bad", I can see exactly how much experience you have in the field of SEO.

Poor Assumptions? All I have to say is look at the title of this thread. Did I make you angry when I said that you're using your little pagerank prediction tool. Awww poor baby, i'm sorry.

Since all you mentioned on this thread was PR...how do you expect anyone to assume different.

If you would like me to post real life examples of how to outrank sites for a keyword even if they have a higher PR...say the word and I will post it.

 

What a bunch of bullshit. You say PR means nothing, I post an article from seomoz showing it is of "exceptional importance" and now you are not man enough to admit you are wrong. All you can do is act like a little brat and then say that's what I'm doing.

Go back to wanking off at your porn site. Please don't troll this thread anymore.


frosty

 

Here are just a few examples of some keywords I checked on today:

"Date Ideas" - I'm fluctuating between 1 and 2. My site is a PR4 while askmen.com is a PR7. Askmen.com is a dating site.

"Things to do" - I'm fluctuating between 2-3. My site is a PR5 while 43thing.com is a PR7.

"Dating Advice" - I'm fluctuating between 6-7, my page is a PR5. Notice how playboyskool.com below me is a PR3 and if you go further you'll see a PR0. And what do you know....Yahoo is on page 2 and they are a PR9

Just in case your curious, here is Yahoo's Title "Dating: Tips & Advice -- Yahoo! Personals"

So how are so many sites able to outrank Yahoo which is a PR9? Probably because there are other factors involved.

LOL why do you have to resort to insults...not once did I insult you. Notice how you accuse me of being childish and I made no such remarks. This really says a lot about you and your character.

For date ideas,

datehookup is a PR5 and is ranking 9th. The title is "Date Ideas"

datehints.com is a PR3 and is ranking 7th. The title is "Date Ideas Dating Tips"

Isn't that kinda odd how a PR3 site outranks a PR5 site?

Looks like my real life examples have just debunked your PR theory.

 

I don't see it that way. In fact, your argument doesn't disprove my theory at all since Google admitedly uses many calculations to determine SERP placement.

You don't think it's possible that one of the many calculations that Google uses to determine SERP uses the PR value of a site?

My site is very well-optimized for keyword density and other SEO factors - my other two competitors aren't.

Why would every site for every keyword have to be listed according to PR for my theory to be true? I'd like to know how my assumption is flawed. Do you have any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that Google doesn't use PR AT ALL in any of its algorithms to determine SERP placement?

That would be nice and true if Google didn't use a bunch of other factors to rank pages. I think you should look more at the delta. All other things being equal before and after the PR update, why did I overtake the other site? What was it if it wasn't a boost in SERP placement due to the PR export?

I was offering some data to this point before you and that other dude started the flame contest. Saying a PR0 site outranking a PR4 site disproves the theory that PR has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with SERP placement when there are 20-odd other unknown factors involved is fairly ridiculous.

What I can say is a PR0 site that was ranked #2 to two PR3 or 4 sites overtook both on the day of the PR update and at no time in the 5 months before that I've been working towards that goal. Are you saying that is pure coincidence?

 

I said that PR has no "direct" correlation on your SERP position. If you have high quality links from high PR sites which are relevant, you will have both a high PR and a high SERP's placement. Therefore, your SERP position is based on both the relevancy and quality of incoming links. Assuming you obtain links naturally (which is Google assumption), they will increase your PR.

My point is this:

If I got a PR8 link to my homepage from a webmaster related site and achieved a PR7, I will not outrank a site on Womens Jewelry.

I completely agree that there are other factors involed and my entire point was that PR is not the deciding factor. The fact that your site moved up in the SERP's was a mere coincidence because if you drop tomorow, that doesn't necessarily mean that your PR has dropped.

And lastly,

Maybe I should have made this distinction a little clear in the beginning. The Toolbar PR and the actual PR in Sunnyvale is different; it's constantly changing. When I said that PR has no correlation with the SERPs, I was referring to Toolbar PR. The actual PR at Google plays a huge role in how you rank in the SERP's...but this has nothing to do with the little green bar you see in the browser (especially when it updates every 3 months).

The OP was was using the Toolbar PR and a Predicition Tool as a means for comparison...and that is just wrong. As you mentioned, there are tons of other factors involved, but he/she never brought them up. Instead, we got this:

 

Your comments are bull. I'll have a look at this SERP. Nonetheless, I'll believe the 37 folks over at SMOZ over a kid posting on a BBS anyday.

Peace.


frosty

The fact that I did not bring up every single possible factor that goes into the Google algorithm does not mean that I think they are unimportant. This thread is not about every factor in Google, it is about PR.

You made an error, which you are unable to defend. You said PR is unimportant. You dug yourself a hole. We have SEO experts who say it is important. You are now backpedalling and trying to dig yourself out of that hole by saying I believe a bunch of stuff I never said. You are just acting out some childishness. It apparently will damage your fragile ego too much, if you have to admit that you might be wrong.


frosty

 

Have you ever noticed that the only people making insults are those who are wrong and who are in fact being childish. It's like those guys that scream at you when you're driving...who's really the moron?


Your comments are really entertaining. First of all, if you want to talk specifics, the article you mentioned had average agreement. That means that all 37 experts did not agree with it. But that's neither here nor there.

As far as me putting words in your mouth goes, show me one instance in this thread where you mentioned any other factor besides PR (and backlinks which increase PR). That's right...you can't. Therefore, it is only fair for me to assume that your only criteria for measuring competition is through PR.

Now to something else. Your toolbar PR and the PR at Google are two different things. Since you don't work for Google, I can only assume that you are using the Toolbar oin your browser to determine the PR of sites linking to your competitor. 2 weeks ago, the PR you were seeing was from 3 months prior. Therefore, you were using information that was 3 months old and a useless PR Prediction Tool in order to gauge your progress (and that of your competitors).

Let me make it absolutely clear for you so that you wouldn't be confused:

1. The Toolbar PR is worthless.
2. The PR Predicition Tool is worthless.
3. Had you mentioned anything else besides the 2 points mentioned above, I wouldn't have even posted on this thread.

But I do see where you're coming from. When I was starting out, I also thought that the PR Predicition tool was useful. 10 minutes later, I saw it for what it was...a PREDICTION. Would I use it to compare my performance to others...absolutely not.

And just in case you're going to say that you never said anything about it, here is a quote:

Now do you remember saying that?

 

Right, that's what your posts are like.

Glad you think they are entertaining. I expect nothing less than some childish condescending remarks from some guy who talks trash through his computer. In any case, the average agreement is supposed to mean what? How does that diminish what they say?

This is a thread about PR, so it's natural that I would be talking about PR. I'm pretty sure I also mentioned anchor text though, if that makes you happy. You have some foolish desire to beat me in a debate, even if you have to make something up to do so. You get your rocks off by talking trash through the internet. I think it's kind of pathetic, but at the end of the day, it's no skin off my teeth. You're free to show your ass all you want.

That's OK, your highness. Your BS is not nearly as profound in my head as it is in yours.

(1) I don't agree
(2) I don't agree
(3) No time like the present to stop then.

Yes, I think the PR prediction tool is useful. It is consistent with his current PR. The guy started his site in early december 06. The PR update was in mid January. He has a PR5 in his toolbar now. That means that he had a massive amount of PR added in that small amount of time. So that would lead one to believe that his PR will rise again on this update, which is what the Predictor says.


frosty

 

Actually, what you said a while back was:

You said it in all caps, exactly as I posted, in an argumentative and assuming manner. You have a slight error in judgement going on as well, in that you appear to be thinking that because you know enough to know that a PR predictor is useless, that you have a full and complete understanding of how this whole thing works. You don't.

Now, this might just be that you do understand this, and just have difficulty explaining the concepts in your head, but as it stands what you wrote is essentially flawed. The "nothing to do with" part is completely false. Why you would think otherwise seems a little strange, since you do seem to understand a bit of the rest of it.

Then, of course, you do things like this:

Start with "the only people making insults" and finish with calling those people childish and insinuating that they are morons. I see.

-Michael

 

Michael,

It's really easy to pick apart posts to make a story, heck the news does it all the time. The PR I was referring to was the PR that was being used by the OP, which is the Toolbar PR.

Is there not a consenus that Toolbar PR is updated every 3 months? If that's the case, then wouldn't it be safe to say that using that number to measure your performance in the SERP's be worthless? The OP was specifically referring to the PR seen in his toolbar...which as we already know, is 3 months old. When I said, in CAPS, that PR is worhtless...I was referring to the PR in the toolbar.

For instance, say you purchase a PR6 expired domain and place a wordcloud site on it...would it be safe to assume that the site will drop in PR after the next update. Sure. So would I not be also safe in assuming that the PR6 you see in the toolbar for that wordcloud site is probably no longer really a PR6? And if my competition has a link from that wordcloud site, is it really a PR6? Do you see what I am getting at here?