Hi, I really dont know how I go about making web templates and pages that look good. Its not that I dont know the stuff. I know HTML, CSS and Javascript pretty well. I program in PHP . What I stumped at is at designing the templates and other static pages. When I see some templates, I just think, like why couldn't I make such templates? I usually try to make a template using raw HTML and CSS and it ends up looking like crap. . For example, I tried to make my own template for PHPLD. I know Smarty templating pseudo-code and all that. Its like, I dont know, how to make visually appealing stuff. You know, like they use small images for making the edges of the menu-bars and stuff make curved, or shade them or something. Its not tutorials I want. I also tried some WYSIWYG editors. I just cant think up good designs . I hope you understood what I am trying to say. I usually start working on a template and end up throwing it away. One of the better looking templates I have made is this one: http://www.tomasm.hostingzero.com/new/ I copied most of the stuff from my Mambo site's template anyway . I also hate using HTML tables. And dont even tell me about nested tables.... I have had enough of those trying to modify the template used in my directory . I have looked at the CSS Zen site and saw some cool templates that dont use tables. They all use lots of images too. Do you know any free and small image editors that will help me make the small images used in templates? Is there any cure for this? . Is this something that can be learned? Or am I a hopeless case, who can design high-end PHP backends any day but sucks at designing simple, nice-looking HTML templates? . Thomas
Probably not the answer you want to hear but: I'm the same way. I can't design squat. It's for this reason I don't call myself a *webdesigner*. I've been at it since 1996. I've improved, but I simply don't have the eye other people do. I've come to accept this about myself. I know the html, I know the css, but to put them together and make something pretty just ain't gonna happen. I can actually steal someone elses design, upload it to a site, and it still looks freakin bad. I've actually managed to make 1 bought template work in all the websites I have. Oh, I don't do images either. Or at least very few. So, instead of pretty, I do minimalist and functional. It works for me. If someone wants me to design a site, and I do have a couple of customers, I tell them up front: I don't do pretty. So don't feel bad. You're not alone.
How does that work out for you? I've concidered doing the same, as I feel im in the same boat. How does it affect the amount you are capable of charging for the job? And in that regard, do you, instead of providing pretty, provide useful? I suppose it is the endless battle between form and function, no..? Yup.
Honesty is the best policy. I can't in good faith tell someone that I'll do something I can't do. If they want pretty, I'll happily refer them to someone else. As far as charging, it depends on the job. If someone wants an oscommerce shopping cart with a bunch of modules, I'll charge accordingly. I usually train people in the usuage of their sites, they're not computer savvy and need handholding. I try to make my customers pages as userfriendly as I can. Keep in mind that making pages is not a first line of business for me - it's secondary income and will probably always be.
For an image editor, you could try GIMP. Some people love it, some people hate it. There is only so much about design that you can learn. Some people have the eye from birth and some do not. If you have the chance to work closely with someone who does, it can help a lot. One of the other guys I work with is great with that kind of thing. I can do fine on pictures, but my problem is adding text to the photos and having it "work" (blend enough but still stand out, go with the site, etc.), so I always ask his opinion. Colleges also have design classes that you could look into, but I don't have experience with those. Spend plenty of time working things out on paper. Start out with something really rough before you try to come up with details. When redesigning sections at work, I still use ugly MS Paint, because I can throw something together and purposely not worry about how it looks. Then you just refine, refine, refine. Like anything else, the more you work at it and the more attention you give it, the better you'll become. But, it can take a long time, so be patient.
Hey thomas, I have the exact same problems. So I developed a method that helps me design better-looking websites. Here it goes: 1- Write down all the elements you want in the design (navigation, search, sections of the site, image of the day, etc.). 2- Assign each element a number from 1 to 10 according to its importance. 3- Draw some basic designs on a sheet of paper of how you will position those elements (always looking back at the rating you gave them, important elements should meet the eye first). 4- Once you have a couple of layouts you like draw some of them bigger and with more detail, keep making changes (usually minor) until you are happy with the design. 5- This is the easier part, make the design in photoshop and the slice it up and start coding. Although you might find it a bit boring at first since it is a rather large process you will definitely like the results. Daniel
"5- This is the easier part, make the design in photoshop and the slice it up and start coding." (I agree!) I'm a web designer, not a coder so I'm the exact opposite as you are - however I do what is mentioned above. I have all the code in place (from whoever supplies the necessary coding because for the life of me, I cannot get the coding on my own most times LOL) and I seperately design my template. Using photoshop or some other art program. I then switch to fireworks, slice it up so I'm given a basic html page, with seperate images. From there, I just start 'filling' in the blanks, adding the code in the necessary places. You can customize it from here on in and basically keep the design the same as your original image since you have a 'guide' to work with from the html page that is created. I don't usually prefer 'tables' but its often the best way to get started. From there you can develope your CSS and eventually end up with "divs" instead of tables.
Tables were never my friends. I only use css but I find that validating is not much fun so after every change I make I validate (only on serious designs otherwise I don't really care if it is valid) and then once the design is working in firefox, opera and safari I go to my horrible PC and try to make it work on IE.
I so wish they would come up with the perfect browser! One that everyone uses - this way would make design so much easier instead of trying to make it fit each browser available! It can be frustrating trying to get things to work in them all - most times they work in say, Firefox but not IE or vice versa!
Daniel gave some good advice how to get started. Here are a couple of more hints: - bookmark sites you liked in a separate bookmark folder - copy images you liked somewhere you can later check and see if you want something similar. Using others' images is theft, but you can use similar ideas or approaches. - paint, draw, whatever you want on paper. Keep drawing until something good will come out. If you don't draw anything, you won't ever draw anything you like. - if you are good with photos, carry a photo with you and make photos of something that gave you inspiration When you are working on a design (or simply want to test your skills, just for giggles), you'll first check the bookmarked sites, then the images, then draw till your hands drop off and something beautiful comes out. Then you can use some of your photos (that fit) to decorate the outcome of your efforts. This will ensure that you designed what you liked. That being said, I am not a web designer, more like a web developer, who can put graphics to HTML/PHP. Also I am a relatively good SEO, copywriter and usability specialist and I can tell you this. You won't get anything if you don't try and put all your efforts to it. If you want to create beautiful graphics, you'll have to keep trying, probing, and trying again. "Practice makes perfect" is the only approach you can take here, and software won't help you - you can.
Guys, ive been designing for some time now and have had some big clients along the way. The best advice i can give you is think outside the box (but not too far sometimes) In this i mean you see sites that have straight boarders and are all layed out nicely. WHY? Why do you have to follow everything in suit. If you want to put your website imagery upside-down or back-to-front, whos stopping you? aslong as you have an area for the content you need on there. To sum up, when you come to designing layouts try not to get an image of normal. straight edged layout. Stick on some music and just throw onto the screen exactly what comes into your head. Remember your imagination is your only boundery...
You know, if you're excellent at coding/scripting but poor at design, consider collaborating with someone artistic, preferably a graphic designer. I think I make some pretty sweet sites myself; if only I had the javascripting knowledge to make it awesome-er :-P
A what you guys could do is try some of those tutorials online an while you are doing it you can add your own personal touch, that’s how i started off, i normally draw inspiration from other sites i have seen not the whole site but colors that they use and how the layout there design.
i think this thread might give you a bit of help, read my reply to his problem http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=111501
Been following this thread, and want to thank all for the great advice. I know I will be using some of the tips here. I find myself grappling with the same situation - I think my content is pretty good, and I have an idea in my head about how I want to present it, but I feel my site layout and design sucks. No matter how hard I try, I can never get that "polished look" that so many sites have today. I find myself then going for the function over form. I know that with a little time and energy, I'll be able to get the look I want - probaly starting by using some of those "inspiration sites" as a guide. Thanks soj for that post.
no probs tomd, they have helped me immensely, have brought a great inspiration to designing uniquely as well
I cant design anything but thats ok - there are other people who can design so i dont even try anymore... by the way i usually dont even notice stuff that most people would in a design and most of the time i think that everything looks good (till someone shows me exactly whats wrong) so - i figure i shouldnt even try anymore