I'm not going to post links to the information here (google is your friend), mainly because I don't want to help spread popularity of the links and sites containing them, but I'm curious as to what you think of the leaked information so far. If you haven't heard, then google it (it's pretty big right now), and come back when you've read the information: The nuts and bolts of it, as it's understood: vBulletin 4 will NOT be free to anyone (even those with licenses which would allow them to download it). You must pay, even if you have a current owned (or leased) license vBulletin 4 will come in two contexts: Forums only - $195 Suite - $285 Forums only will just be the forums, nothing more. In addition, those licenses will have only 30 days of support to them via helpdesk. Suite will have the forums, CMS, blog , project tools, and all new "projects" (currently undisclosed). These licenses will have no limit to support via helpdesk. Leased licenses: These are done away with, they will not exist any longer. Current leased customers must upgrade to owned licenses. Individual projects: It's not stated directly, but it's pretty obvious that they're going to stop selling those, so if you have one, you're screwed. Upgrades/renewals: There will no longer be a yearly "renewal" fee, but they'll get you when it comes to upgrade, say v4 to v5. If the development keeps going on as it is, v5 will be on us MUCH sooner than v4 was. I'm sure I missed something in the nuts and bolts, feel free to correct me if I have. My 0.02: As a vBulletin leased (and owned) license holder, this is going to kill me. I have two leased (plus blogs) licenses and, I just don't see this making any sense whatsoever. The biggest problem to me is the alienation of a group of individuals just because you don't want to provide support for (or take money from) leased licenses any more. That's just wrong. Of course, then there's the legal issue of existing contracts which are required to be honored. Since those of us that have owned licenses have purchased those and upgrades with the undersetanding that we WILL receive updates, they can't modify that contract halfway through it. Your thoughts?
I wouldn't be surprised at all if VB went that route. It doesn't bother me at all since I use Mybb and have been very happy. I was using VB but dropped it since it was bloat. VB is spending lots of money on developing their software past the forum catgory and eventually someone is going to have to pay for that.
From another site I visit, there is talk and screen shots of a thread from one of the vbulletin developers that there is going to be a per incident charge for support. That there will be 30 - 90 days of support, and after that there is going to be a charge. I see this as nothing more then a money grab on the part of jelsoft. And is an insult to the vbulletin community. Anyone with an active license can go to the vbulletin forums and ask for help as much as they want. With the new changes, its going to cost every time you need support - after the first 30 or 90 days that is. I look for vbulletin support forums - outside the official forums to explode. People are not going to want to pay $80 per incident. They will go somewhere else and ask for help. This is going to degrade the quality of the vbulletin product.
Things like this and how bloated VB is made me switch from them. The software itself is extremely large and slow, and I have been able to create very similar software for myself with half as much code and twice the speed. I have been very happy with that. VB team sold out to some other company, I knew eventually their rates would sky rocket and they would start destroying the company.
Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the changes, Wayne Luke explains here that the vB 4 pricing rumors wouldn't be so bad for most customers. If you use the Blog and/or Project Tools and are wanting to use the CMS, the new pricing structure should be saving you money in the long run.
I think you will see large exodus from the software. Less startups will feel the need to use it. This might be a good opportunity imho for IPB to lower it's prices and attract a larger base.
vBulletin won't force people to upgrade and buy the new version. People with leased and owned licenses for vBulletin 3.8 will be fine. They will not be able to upgrade for free though. It would be a legal issue if vBulletin forced leased customers to upgrade. They signed a contract and vBulletin must obey it. As for the pricing, that seems fair. The amount of extra stuff going into vBulletin 4 is amazing. It is well worth the price.
This is why i'm selling my vB owned license cheap. Take a look. That sounded like a cheap plug, sorry.
There's more to it than just pricing though. Of course they're going to deny, deny, deny until the cows come home. That's their job. Right now, they're just doing damage control, knowing that information got leaked out.
It's true though that nothing has been solidified. If you actually read the leaked content, you would know this.
Incorrect The only thing not solidified in there? How much they're going to charge currently paying customers. Everything else was clearly spelled out, including the removal of a customer group entirely
Internet Brands (the new owner of vBulletin) surely knows what they are doing, they have experience, vBulletin does have experience, and as we can read in that post, they are both happy. We will see how it goes after the final release. vBulletin will not lose users so quickly. Even if vB4 will be a fail, they will do their best to improve it. In my opinion, 3.8 series was a fail (community stuff), but well, it's here, and it's used. We will see how good will these products be, and if the price is right. As long as it will offer as good features as IPB, they will be fine. Future price comparision: vB4 standard = 195$ IPB standard = 149.99$ + 25$ (every 6 months) vB4 Suite = 285$ IBP + all add-ons = 50 + 50 + 65 + 149.99 = 314.99$
Who cares if IB and vB are happy? THEY aren't the ones that need to be happy, their customers are. Are you kidding? vBulletin/IB has already cut off one of their customer groups in this release, causing them to "lose users", very quickly. Firstly, there's a difference between a major release (ie: 4.0) and a minor one (3.8). Secondly, 3.8 was not a fail at all. It cleaned up features that were released in 3.7 and added a bit more security to it. There really was no "fail" there whatsoever. That was a perfect example of listening to customer feedback and doing what their customers want. That ignores, of course, the fact that they owe their customers full releases, as purchased, as long as their license is eligible for upgrade. This isn't the first time IB has pulled this stunt with vBulletin, and, it won't be the last. Nor, for that matter is it the first increase in the past year, or since they picked up the product itself. Development wise, IB/Jelsoft may still be listening to their consumers, but where it really counts, they are turning their back on them and ignoring them.
If their customers are happy, then only they are happy. Those are the user accounts who keep on transferring the account time and again or have something against their TOS. All the bugs of 3.8 will be removed in 4.0. And yes, it was a fail. More people still prefer 3.7 though 3.8 has better security. Lastly, the price is much much more better than paying for IBP.
Not so. If you keep your customers happy, your customers return, spend more money, and thusly you are happy as a business. Just because a person is on a "leased license" doesn't mean they're doing something wrong, or they're a bad person. Some of us (myself included) prefer leased licenses, and we're 100% legal in doing so. There is nothing wrong with a leased license, and since vBulletin has offered that since the beginning, there's no reason to exclude it, other than to just eliminate a group of your paying customers. You have no idea what you're talking about here, and that statement just sealed that. 3.7 is no more better than 3.8, there are just a few upgrades in things between the two. As far as "all the bugs" being removed in 4.0? You're talking out of your tail end there. NOBODY knows what's going to be there, or not be there in 4.0 yet. Since it's a private beta, you can bet it will introduce more bugs than 3.8 even thought of, or 3.7, or 3.6 for that matter. Nobody's disputing the minimalistic price increase. What people are disputing though, and complaining about (and rightfully so, mind you) is this: Firstly, they paid for upgrades for a year. Thusly, vB/IB has no right whatsoever to say "you don't get updates". As long as the person's upgrade period has time on it, they don't get to suddenly change it. Secondly, some of us have paid for the products before (blog, etc), with, again, the understanding that it would be a ONE TIME PAYMENT. vB/IB has no right to charge again for the same product. Thirdly, the elimination of a customer group will do nothing but cost these idiots money. Sure, a small portion of these people may use the licenses inappropriately, but the same small portion can apply to the owned license group. There's really little difference between the two groups. Minor increases are part of business practices, seriously, and we all understand and know that they happen. That's why there was minimal uproar when they went up last year, and if the minor increase was the only planned change, very few people would complain now! The problem most people have ISN'T pricing, but the other major issues out there that need to be addressed, instead of being just ignored by IB/vBulletin staff!
That would be their downfall , i own 6 licences and plan to buy another 3 in the near future If they stop upgrades and support to them licences then i would have no choice but to move to another forum software, IPB is more than capable of taking everything i have to throw at it.
The current consensus is that they will charge for upgrades to 4.0. How much? Well, Steve hinted that the fee would be "not nominal", but we'll see. Also, it's worth noting that 4.0 won't even be ready for public consumption until at least 4.1 or 2, because of the ridiculous "no beta" garbage. Mods won't be done in time for gold, which means nobody's going to upgrade till they get their comparable mods running. This is just a lose-lose for vBulletin.
I always thought it was standard practice to have to pay to get a new (FULL) release of a program (like vB3.8 to 4.0) ... The way I look at it is that I can still upgrade to 3.9 or 3.9.9 PL96 if they offer it....but I fully expected to pay for 4.0 even if I *JUST* paid for 3.8 or what-have-you *shrug* Is it fair? Likely not, but I have always assumed that was just how things were. Am I wrong in thinking this?
With any software company out there, the way this works is this: You get releases (including full) for X number of months from time you buy product. After said time, you must pay for upgrades or releases. I can't think of one single software company (aside from Microsoft) that requires you to pay for a product when you just purchased it. As long as you have time left where you can download upgrades, this isn't debatable, vBulletin owes you those upgrades. This was covered when you bought the product, and is in the description as such. If they're going to charge existing customers for something, they are required, by law to deliver it.