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last line of a webpage

Discussion in 'CSS' started by jacka, Apr 9, 2008.

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  1. #1
    Hi
    I have a very silly question.
    i don't even know how to search google to word it properly.

    Usually at the very last line of most web pages you see a small written information, such as contact, your suggestion, feedback, terms and conditions, etc.

    Does this line have a name?
    Are there any css templates I can use or do I have to invent from start?

    appreciate your help.
    jacka
     
    jacka, Apr 9, 2008 IP
  2. mds

    mds Active Member

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    #2
    I believe you can add that by a simple html code.
     
    mds, Apr 9, 2008 IP
  3. Dan Schulz

    Dan Schulz Peon

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    #3
    That would be a footer. What I tend to do is wrap everything inside a DIV, give it an ID of footer, and then style the copyright line with EM. If I have a list of links (such as TOS, FAQ/Help and so on), I'll use an unordered list.

    Here's an example:

    
<div id="footer">
	<ul>
		<li><a href="#">About Us</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">FAQ/Help</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">Terms of Use</a></li>
		<li><a href="#">Contact Us</a></li>
	</ul>
	<em>Copyright &#38;#169; 2006-2008, The Monster Under the Bed. All rights to scare unsuspecting children reserved.</em>
</div>
    Code (markup):
    Which would then be styled from an external stylesheet with CSS to look however I want it to.
     
    Dan Schulz, Apr 9, 2008 IP
  4. jacka

    jacka Peon

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    #4
    Thanks Dan Schulz
    Nice and simple.
    :)
     
    jacka, May 6, 2008 IP
  5. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #5
    Regarding using an unordered list in the footer is that just a personal preference or something you would suggest naturally doing anyway?
     
    pipes, May 6, 2008 IP
  6. kk5st

    kk5st Prominent Member

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    #6
    How else would you mark up a list of links. A menu is always a list&#8212;by definition.

    cheers,

    gary
     
    kk5st, May 6, 2008 IP
  7. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #7
    Was just asking, i dont usually see lists used in footers, at least i think i dont, footer links i usually see side by side.

    Maybe im thinking of something else.

    HTML and CSS are not rocket surgery maybe should be science? ;)
     
    pipes, May 6, 2008 IP
  8. apmsolutions

    apmsolutions Peon

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    #8
    I'm pretty sure he's styling the list to show horizontally. Its much easier to control the look using lists.
     
    apmsolutions, May 6, 2008 IP
  9. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #9
    Thanks, i had no idea, learning something everyday.
     
    pipes, May 6, 2008 IP
  10. Stomme poes

    Stomme poes Peon

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    #10
    Nope, it's like Afro-samurais and sporks. Rocket science + brain surgery = rocket surgery.

    The reason we don't see menus in lists is the same reason you see pages with tables and <BODY BGCOLOR="WHITE">...

    The only thing a bunch of spans or anchors as menus have going for themselves is that they are easier for a n00b to style (since they naturally stack up alongside each other without you really needing to do anything).

    Most common way to style a non-dropdown menu to look like a typical footer menu is, using Dan's HTML:
    #footer ul {
    list-style: none; <--removes bullets
    margin: 0;
    padding: 0; <--normally at the top of the css sheet but I've got it here
    }
    #footer li {
    display: inline; <--while this makes the links look inline, this is actually here just to make IE7 happy
    }

    #footer a {
    float: left;<-- makes the anchors stack alongside each other AND makes them blocks, so you can set height, width, margin, all that good stuff
    width: whatever; <-- or, I could just set side padding and let the floats shrinkwrap
    other styling stuff like fontz
    }

    Floating the a's stops an IE whitespace bug as an extra bonus. Sometimes though you'd want to add overflow: hidden on the #footer or the ul in the #footer to wrap those floats-- but then you've got to be careful because a text-enlarge can drop the last menu items off the page and out of sight.
     
    Stomme poes, May 6, 2008 IP
  11. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #11
    Afro-samurais would make a great film title, back on topic though.

    Thanks for giving examples and the explanations, i guess whats going through my mind is is this neccessary or over doing it? footers are the last thing people see, usually with the boring stuff to the average visitor, would the visitor be concerned, and because its at the bottom of the page i dont think its going to be an SE concern either.

    Fair comments, im still brand new to this, just wondering if some coding is for practicality while others are for scoring points in the coding world?

    Websites are for humans i always read, over complicating things or i just need to learn more? :)
     
    pipes, May 6, 2008 IP
  12. Stomme poes

    Stomme poes Peon

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    #12
    I certainly told my husband a long time ago to just keep his menu in spans because I knew it would be easier for him to style the menu. Later I rewrote the page though : )

    The only reason we put a list of links in a list is semantics. You can (and some have) write a whole page in nothing but <p> tags. You can and it will be perfectly googleable, perfectly readable and if you stuck a class on every <p> it would be perfectly styleble. But, that's called tag soup. You can do tag soup but there's a better way. Which is to use the tag that Means the right thing. A <p> marks up a paragraph. So we don't use it for menus, headers, footers, or images. <h1> is the title of the page, so we don't use more than one per page because pages only have one title (or, they should). A lengthy quote from some old dead geezer should be in <blockquote>, lists should be in ul or ol or dl, tabular data should be in tables, etc.

    So, yeah, it's true that it's more markup (on both ends, HTML and CSS) and the end result looks the same either way, at least to visual browsers, but it's just part of the right way because we know that if we had used the correct tags back in the early days, the web would have been much better. Imagine a world where Google isn't needed, because looking for a movie title could be done by Alta vista because it would simply look for web pages with titles that referred to movie listings and then searched for the tag called <movie title>. This is in fact what the whole Semantic Web thing is about (look in the main forum for the new thread by James), and we all regret Tag Soup.

    But, it's not like the Markup Nazis are going to come after you for not putting your list of links in a list, nor are teh Googlies going to punish you. So, it's a choice.

    (but if you don't do what we say we will SHUN YOU! and then hunt you down and make vague menacing threats!! : )
     
    Stomme poes, May 6, 2008 IP
  13. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #13
    Its for the geekiest of coders i think, thats whats its for ;)

    No i know what your saying though and it does make sense, sadly though if a tiny minority are coding correctly i wonder if it makes it worth it for you guys, i ask because i like to understand why, then follow in the footsteps and hopefully get it correct too.

    I want to ask an honest question now, need to get this off my chest, here goes..

    When someone comes here asking about CSS or in the HTML section asking about that or over at another forum, do you ladies and gentlemen who like to "do it properly" honestly have intentions of helping people in a way so that they understand and dont feel an outsider, or, and be honest please, do you sometimes get kicks from replying with a massive long post of bewildering text (knowing the person is already struggling) to make yourself appear above and beyond and actually have a personal enjoyment from knowing that the terms used will either put off a newcomer or make it uneccessarily complicated for them?

    Do you still have fun creating, and do you have a number of websites to show these talents?

    I think sometimes it all gets too scientific, would you agree that lots of terms and talk are created so that people have something to talk about in their blogs and newsletters and so that thy can sell an non existing product to a beginner?

    Is it still about websites or are you lost in the terms? anyone feel free to answer if you see yourself as knowing your stuff :)
     
    pipes, May 6, 2008 IP
  14. Stomme poes

    Stomme poes Peon

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    #14
    my replies sure do tend to get rather long, but only because to explain a small part can too easily make no sense on its own. And, if someone said "because" to me, I would still be lost.

    I think my replies are fairly English, and expect that if I do use a term that someone doesn't know that they will ask. I do like to parrot what I've learned to other people just as I received from the crusty bearded gurus of DP and other forums. I year ago I knew nothing of HTML and had never even heard of CSS. I saw Crusty Dan Schulz and deathshadow and Gary (kk5st) explaining stuff to other people and I picked up a lot from that. They also posted examples of how to do stuff and sometimes I understood it and sometimes I didn't. Then Dan recomended Build Your Own Web Site the Right Way Using HTML and CSS by Ian Lloyd as the book for beginners, and I got it and learned. Then came HTML Utopia: Designing Without Tables using CSS by Rachel Andrew and Dan Shafer, which really helped me get started with using CSS for positioning (even though I never used tables, it didn't matter).

    I consider my replies failures if someone just gets more confused by them. it means I've wasted my time. That's why sometimes I even do a rewrite, though i'm not as good as deathshadow in explaining enough who's doing what in the code.

    I also sometimes don't know how much someone already knows and so don't want to repeat something if, by the code examples they posted, the person already has some basics. But, often people post code they got from elsewhere and heck my husband's new boss, who writes semantic, well-formed XHTML1.0, did not know about IE puking when there was anything, even a space, before the doctype. I only know about it because it was repeated here endlessly by the Crusties.

    it's 100% about websites and websites being well-written, semantic, valid, and working.
     
    Stomme poes, May 6, 2008 IP
  15. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #15
    Well maybe 12 months from now il feel less intimidated by this whole learning process, ive managed to complete a WP theme recently, nothing fancy but i was pleased to complete it, but i realise thats not much yet so if i can get a real understanding of coding correctly after about a year then il be happy.:)

    It does make sense what you say that sometimes posts must be detailed to get the point accross fully to someone asking, as long as no ones taking pleasure from someone else struggling then its cool i guess. :)

    The thing with web standards is they are always changing, its like trying to reach a finishing line that keeps moving further away, and bizarrely some of the largest companies out there have non compliant and non intuitive layouts and navigation.
     
    pipes, May 6, 2008 IP
  16. Dan Schulz

    Dan Schulz Peon

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    #16
    For the record, I do not have a beard. Nor am I old (I'm not even 30 yet, though I will be next year). :p
     
    Dan Schulz, May 6, 2008 IP
  17. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #17
    Well im a year older than you, but about 15 years behind you with regards to all this stuff. :)
     
    pipes, May 6, 2008 IP
  18. Stomme poes

    Stomme poes Peon

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    #18
    I'm pretty comfortable with CSS but I would feel quite intimidated with something like a WordPress theme. I can't really do templates, they're too complex. So you're ahead of me there.

    You can't "take pleasure in someone else struggling [with css]" if you find yourself struggling with things yourself too. I don't generally ask here (because I usually don't get answers) when I have questions, but I do in other forums were the crusty bearded cloaked and hooded gurus have much more knowledge than I. Here, I can give back what I've taken. Most other forums I can still only take. If Dan (sorry Dan, didn't want to make you sound old but you are crusty as far as your knowledge) and deathshadow and soulscratch hadn't been here when I first got here (by googling html and css I think), I would have floundered and not known where to learn (the only other resource I knew then was w3schools which taught me tags but not how to use them in a page).
    So when I see people in the same place I was, I try to help.
     
    Stomme poes, May 7, 2008 IP
  19. blueparukia

    blueparukia Well-Known Member

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    #19
    Yes. I suck at writing though, so I avoid helping people to not make them look stupid.

    Kinda. I do like the feeling when I am better than other people, but I try not to flaunt it, though still being in puberty, I can't help it sometimes. Though when I do, I always try to keep my answer understandable, making it easier to understand, not harder. If it makes it harder, I just spent 20 minutes or so trying to type a coherent post (which I suck at), and I have to retype.


    Yes. Thats the only real reason I do it. I have plenty of money, I have an active social life, a girlfriend...all that jazz. When I go onto a computer, I code (whether it be HTML/CSS/PHP/Javascript or C#/C++/Visual Basic), because I get a kick out of it. Some people play computer games, which I find pointless, some people play sports, which is all well and good, but not me. I code for fun, and fun only. I make a few extra bucks on the side, awesome, but not important.

    Now for my life story:

    1 year ago, shortly after my 14th birthday, I virtually knew nothing about computers, aside from word processing and the likes. I also knew Visual Basic cause of school. My laptop was playing up, so I joined a computer forum, asked for help, and really got into the internet. Time came when I made a forum on InvisionFree, it sucked but....meh. I started learning some CSS for InvisionFree Styles, and then decided to start coding my own website. The original code for the site was 67kb (for about 12kb of content), with half a tonne of Javascript, generated by Dreamweaver.

    I joined the CSSCreator forum, knowing virtually nothing, thinking I was all so awesome - and I got beaten down quite badly. I ditched Dreamweaver then, and found some more simple HTML tutorials - which sucked too.

    After a while though, I got the basic hang of most HTML and some more complex CSS, and started with really basic Javascript (that I had copied off another site, and thought it was CSS), and came here for help when it wasn't working properly. I found the solution, hovered around a bit, and by the disciples of the Almighty Chicken, I learned a tonne. Deathshadow blasted (and still does) craploads of information into me, I could barely keep up. Just reading one of his posts would make my head spin. After a short while though, more and more of it began making sense, and I was able to create and piece together much more complex techniques.

    I started on PHP around this time, just to see how much I could take in. Still being pathetic, I was hanging off some dude in Ohio for support in MSN. I probably pissed him off a tonne of times answering basic questions, but he's now one of my best online friends, and I am in the position to share my wisdom with him now.

    After learning the structure of PHP, HTML just seemed to click, all the CSS and HTML stuff that had made some sense to me before, now just clicked. In January this year, I felt like God - I could create incredible stuff with no help, and I could do it with reasonable code. The next two weeks I just beat myself to learn everything possible - getting into semantics, much more complex techniques, and finally, Javascript - which I excelled at.

    Pretty much all my current knowledge (and a fair whack of my paypal balance) is attributed to Deathshadow, Dan Schulz and to a lesser extent, Stomme Poes.

    February 2007 - I had no idea what HTML was, February 2008 - I am teaching teachers. It's just persistance, not overally skill - I am not a particularly bright 15 year old (or I am, I just hate school, so I fail a lot of things).

    I still find many, many things about CSS I had no idea existed, and I still learn so much from the people on these forums.

    And that took me nearly an hour to write.

    Josh

    EDIT - Some More:

    Yes, it is worth it - both in monetiary terms and the fact that you know you are attempting to do some good in the world by creating pages accessible to anyone on any browsers.
     
    blueparukia, May 7, 2008 IP
  20. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #20
    I guess im playing catch up, when i was 14 i was out having fun in the sun, i had no interest in computers and if i remember correctly there was no WWW, just the internet, ive only had a pc for about 7 years so theres people half my age with much more experience.:)
     
    pipes, May 7, 2008 IP
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