Keyword ranking tool/ updates & PR

Totaly disagree. My PR went from 4 to 5 for home page and the same for internal pages. There's no new links to internal pages but I have moved up for about 1,000 keywords on #1 positions for my 1,000 pages (I have one keyword for one page and it's in title, description, keywords, H1, H2, bold and just text on each page). So Allinanchor changed just for home page and there's no change for internal pages but I'm having hits to internal pages.

PR means a lot but for competetive keywords allinanchor just beats PR

 

leoGoogle Datacenter Watch - view results on 56 Different Google Datacenters

McDar's tool may give you the answer - For my area all DC's have been reasonably updated.


On PR I do agree with Comprar - it's just a relative weighing of a site and due to context value you can achive a PR without linking.
Links start to be factored in but with a growing link population in / outbound start balancing thus the PR does not grow sginificantly.

Personally I'm very suspect of pr7+ pages (if you look close enough most play games) as I run clustering and triangular linking, all domains have between 4 - 6, new ones usually go immediately to 4, all get visited daily by G Y and the maximum I ever tried was releasing 100 pages on one day which where fully indexed by G and Y within a couple of days.
M

 

well - i thought i understood it all then - until i reached page 3 of this thread and read Zanders post ----- now i think i'm back to square one.

so let me amalgamate all the info so far - (and simplify it too)

PR actually means pretty much nothing - and it's main advantages stem from people misunderstanding the purpose of it.

PR number is just incidental to the number of links you have incoming (including internal links)
so:
when i see high PR sites ranking highly it's actually just because the have lots of links with that keyword in their anchor text.

BUT: PR can have an effect in highly competitive keyword areas..... for example vacation rentals in florida - which is the area i am trying to optmise my site towards (and losing) - does anyone else agree it could have some effect in this area.

oh - and another question from me - if you have a link from a high PR site - is the anchor text of that link (value of that link in terms of link reputation - or even link pop for that matter) given more weight than a low PR link?

 

I think the formula should be something like:

PR of the page itself * Page's content weight + Allinanchor * PR of each page with allinanchor link

So when we are talking about some popular topics then Allinanchor can weight 99% jf what we can see in results.

And for some topics like "best deals on vacation rentals in Florida on July 2004" nobody have keywords in allinanchor and then SERPs are ordered by keywords density in Title, H1-H6, bold and so on and by PR.

And what is true for 100% is that just keyword by itself give you just 5-10% of what keyword + all phrases with this keyword can give you.

You can't promote yourself only with allinanchor because you'll get just 10% of what you can have!

PR gives you 90% of the result and Allinanchor give you just 10%

 

You have to remember that Zander is from Russia and is talking about Russian sites. Besides the obvious language barrier I believe there must be differences in the way things are handled there. I personally don't think you can apply his information to the USA or the UK situation.

I'd hardly call that an advantage. But people's obsession with it is largely based on false information and misunderstanding.

This may be pure semantics, but it isn't incidental to the number. It is determined by the number of links and the PR of these links. Have you looked at my article and chart? It lays it all out there.

NO! No! When you see high PR it is because the site has some combination of, a lot of links from low ranking PR sites, or a few links from very high ranking PR sites, or some combination of those things. It has nothing to do with what the links are using for anchor text. PR is topic or semantically insensitive.

No! No!. You still have cause and effect backwards. To rank well for competitive keywords or search terms you need a lot of backlinks with the appropriate anchor text. As a consequence of having these links you will probably also accumulate a high, or higher, PR ranking. But it is the anchor text that drives the page's placement in the SERP. Not the PR.

That's the best question you have asked yet. Here is what most knowledgeable people think about that.

The relevance value attributed to a link is based on the anchor text, but all other things being equal, the page with the same anchor text from the higher PR page, will probably be placed in the SERP above the same page with the link from a lower PR page.

By the same reasoning if two pages are equal in all other aspects, the page with the higher PR will be placed above the lower PR page in the SERPs.

 

I think both Page's content and Allinanchor text are multiplied by PR value.

So:
1) link from PR8 site is better then from PR7 site
2) page with PR8 will be higher then with PR7 if other conditions are the same



And 5 answers for questions:
1) "Why Allinanchor is so important?". Answer: Because you can have good SERPs on keyword in anchor test that can give you 1,000+ uniq visitors per day from search engines

2) "Why PR of site is so important?". Answer: Because you can have 10,000+ keywords that completely describes your field of interest and you can't promote each of these keywords with allinanchor because it's just impossible

3) "Why PR and allinanchor both shoud be worked at". Answer: Bacause allinanchor will provide you good position on competetive part of your keywords set like "vacation rentals in Florida" and PR will complete this basic keyword with long keyword phrases and then you'll have 100% of effect

4) "Why you may work just to improve your allinanchor?". Answer: because allinanchor links always give you PR, but PR may no give you Allinanchor (link from DMOZ runs like "Some_site.com" but this site is about Animals and there's nothing in Allinanchor about animals

5) "Why you can't forget about PR?" Answer: because you can have right links only on low PR sites and they won't give you great PR and then you'll have good SERPs just for the words that are in Allinanchor and it's only 10% of effect you can have

 

Sorry, but I'm talking about:

1) Google
2) Keywords in English language

Once more. If formula is SERPs = (Page_content * PR_of_it) + SUM(Anchor_text * PR_of_it) and many things tells me it should look like this way then we can understand that you can't beat 100 strong PR allinanchor links with just PR and page's content, because page's content are limited by keywords density and could weight just 1% of the whole SERPs value.

But when we are talking about noncompetetive keywords which are rarely met in anchor text then PR takes place to order SERPs. If your site have many-many pages 1,000 - 1,000,000 with good uniq texts then you can have visitors to your site from thousands of different keywords you even didn't think of!

So If I have site with 1,000,000 pages indexed by Google about Real Estate with daily fresh uniq content, strong PR8+ and All my Anchor text are "www.not_my_keyword.com" then I'll have 10-20 times more traffic from Google then the most optimized site for the same topic with 10 pages

PS BTW all written above is the same that Compar wrote at the end of his message but with examples

 

Don't jump conclusions too fast after a few people saying a few things. Not after Zander's posts and not after mine either. Zander's finding could be down to many things. Maybe his PR went up from 4.49 to 5.51 and G's algo changed somehow reuslting in his increased SERPs.

It's not incidental but a mathematical equation of incoming links and the PR they pass on depending on the page's own PR and the number of links.

Depends on the linking page's PR. Plus perhaps a good effort in on page SEO, but links are THE most important factor.

No it's not the PR helping, it's the amount of links with the anchor text helping, resulting in high SERPs and high PR.

No one knows the answer because no one knows the G Algo, but as far as I am aware, at the moment PR isn't linked to the anchor text. How would it work for image links?

You just have to ask yourself what you are trying to achieve. I am pretty sure that you could achieve just that without knowing your PR and without worrying about it.

 

Zander, when you say your site has a strong PR8, do you mean your homepage has PR8 and all deeper pages lower?

I don't believe Google would treat a page different because it's 'mother' homepage has a high PR.

 

And you don't need to! I mean when Home page's PR changed from 5 to 6 then it was distributed through all other pages and they changed their PR too.

At 99% sites inner pages have their PR from the home page and don't have inbound links from other sites!

One thing I don't understand how could it happen that PR of the home page is changed (or become stronger) and inner pages didn't have a boost

Strongest PR is when Home page have the same PR value as inner pages that have links from it. Good example www.seo-guy.com site which have PR8 on the home page and PR8 in innder pages that have links from navigation menu.

 

Absolutely wrong. Do you really think that anchor text from link on PR10 page is the same as the link from newly registered site with PR0?

 

Just go to http://www.google.com and type in "NFS underground" and look who is next in SERPs after Electronic Arts that issued that game.

#3 in SERPs in the World for English language keyword the page that is in Russian ... it's not the whole site devoted to this game but just one little article, one of the other thousand on my gameguru.ru site and it goes just after Electronic Arts official site.

You may think it's noncompetetive keyword but look in DigitalPoint keyword suggestion tool at http://www.digitalpoint.com/tools/suggestion/?keywords=nfs+underground and you'll see it's very competetive.

And if there's only one word in Russian in keyword then I always have #1 SERPs in Google.

And all other 1000 games have alike SERPs and it all gives me about 20,000 uniq visitors per day from just Google

So I know what I'm talking about!

 

Lots of searches don't mean they are necessarily competitive. Try again with McDar's tool or Wordtracker's KEI analysis and you might find other results.

 

I just love this

PR is purely mathematical and takes many iterations to stabilise respectively start representing changes. So if PR is updated prior to all required iterations for your site you wont see a change but you will see it next time.
It is a permanent process and every now and then G just takes a snapshot.

The nfs is a good example that PR is a factor but can be outperformed by other factors just go to prog an see it there
http://www.webmasterbrain.com/prog/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=NFS+underground&num=10

A good page to explain PR basics is here
http://www.whitelines.nl/html/google-page-rank.html

Thus if you play it right you can push one page high in PR whilst loosing on other pages without any links (if you can get G to visit it).
Also to have an evenly distributed PR across a site you have to "play" on your internal linking structure.
If all requested links go to the home page you can either end up with a HP of significantly higer PR than your other pages or you adjust internal linking potentially dilute PR on homepage but end up with near equal PR on all other pages. PR is logaritmic and 4.51 - 5.50 may well show as 5 on your bar.

So timing the initial release of a domain to G or lifting a ban on G's bots - initial link structure - initial links - can get you instant good PR and from there it's self building as most people are still mesmerized by PR and forget about content.

Presently G favors links but IMO this is not sustainable as this does not give any inclination about the true value of content - anyone with a cheque book can buy links these days.

M

 

Guys, I don't understand how to explain it but yes PR can be easily outperfomed by hundreds of links with keywords in anchor text. But you have to do something to archive this result. And you need years to do it with 10,000 keyword list and it's just impossible.

When you have content, lots of content you don't need to think about anchor links because when you get good PR you gets tons of visitors from search engines if you have good on-site optimization which is given by one of the leaders of Nigritude Ultramarine contest and it's basics: Each page of the site must be uniq and devoted to only one keyword and it should be in title, description, keywords, H1, H2, bold, italic, just text and twice in the firs paragraph of the page.

All the above plus strong PR distributed all over the site and you'll have 10 times more then you can have from 1-10 keywords you are fighting for with the help of allinanchor links. And it's much safer because you can lost your positions for 10 keywords because they are very competetive and it's nearly impossible to loose your SERPs for 10,000 keywords

For example, I can't find myself in Yandex Russian search engine for any important gaming keywords but still I have 10,000 uniq users from it on daily basis for noncompetetive keywords. And in Google I'm #1 for Russian gaming content

 

well said ... not only will you attract PR by the sheer number of pages you will attract links. Also one starts to write precise focussed content thus keywords are focussed.....
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.. another advantage is that the "unforced" links will tend to cover "anchor text" and surrounding context one hasn't even thought of and thus attracting even more visitors and pos in SERP's .... and so on and on....
​

M
​

 

No - unfortunately it doesn't. As I am looking at the locally restricted Google.at, the McDar-tool offers no help. Within the unrestricted Google.com I am completely lost.

 

Right! All you need is:
1) Daily updated thematic uniq content with 100+ new issues (news, articles, previews, reviews, interviews, analitics and so on) per day, each discussed in forums
2) Maillist with 100,000+ subscribers sent to them daily
3) Forums with 10,000+ registered users
4) Thematic Blog with 1,000+ registered professionals in the field of your interest with hot discussions
5) Content exchange (Informers with 10+ hotlines or even integration of your content into partners site) with sites with daily traffic 50,000+ uniq visitors
6) Free informers in JavaScript, IFRAME, PHP, Perl or XML with one static direct link to your site and on-the-fly updated headlines
7) META search with static URLs (indexed by Google) for your site and the sites of your competitor (something like http://gameguru.box.sk/, if your competitors will make on-site optimization, then you'll have better and better search results they in fact will optimize your META serach system)
8) Good on-site optimization:
- fast loading for HTML pages: compressed (GZIPed) content for IE, cached imaegs for 3+ month
- good static URL structure
- good linking structure
- SEO basics: title, meta k&d, H1-H2, Bold, italic, first paragraph

And then you should think just about PR, because you'll get about 100-200 new links per day for such a site but generaly from low PR sites. And it helps a lot to get links from PR6+ sites!

If you think that it's a miracle then I can tell you that I have more then 10 clients who had just 1) and in the best case 1)-3) of the above list and had misirable traffic to their site. What I call SEO work is to help sites to add 2)-8) and then they can have 10-100 times more then it was before.

Best regards,
Paul

 

leo,

to see if you're in the top 1000 G check here
http://www.googlerankings.com/

I've never used the advanced features but there is language filtering
cheers m

 

so:
when i see high PR sites ranking highly it's actually just because the have lots of links with that keyword in their anchor text.

NO! No! When you see high PR it is because the site has some combination of, a lot of links from low ranking PR sites, or a few links from very high ranking PR sites, or some combination of those things. It has nothing to do with what the links are using for anchor text. PR is topic or semantically insensitive.


sorry - i think i didn't write this post clear enough - what i meant then was

"when i see high PR sites ranking highly it's actually just because they have lots of links with that keyword in their anchor text." - which is causing them to rank highly - not the PR

BUT: PR can have an effect in highly competitive keyword areas..... for example vacation rentals in florida - which is the area i am trying to optmise my site towards (and losing) - does anyone else agree it could have some effect in this area.

No! No!. You still have cause and effect backwards. To rank well for competitive keywords or search terms you need a lot of backlinks with the appropriate anchor text. As a consequence of having these links you will probably also accumulate a high, or higher, PR ranking. But it is the anchor text that drives the page's placement in the SERP. Not the PR

i kind of said that earlier - but thanks for making things clearer anyway - all advice is appreciated.
........................................................................................................

so i shall stick my neck out again and say what i have learnt thus far:

PR isn't as much an amazing thing as alot of people think: although often this confusion may usually arise from the fact that when sites with lots and lots of links naturally achieve high rankings from their lots of links - they also accumulate a high PR as a "by-product"of these links.

there seems to be some confusion with this next one: - but most people consider that a link (say with your keyword in the anchor text) holds more weight when it comes from a high PR site. - which if true would seem to me to be the reason for the existence of PR.(I could be wrong)

well i thought i was going to have a long list then - seems that's all i've learnt - i suppose it is pretty important stuff though....

dang - i had another question then but it slipped my mind for the minute....

Anyway please correct my statements if they are wrong - and thanks so far guys you've been a great help !