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June 27th revisited

Discussion in 'Google' started by MikeSwede, Jul 16, 2006.

  1. calcruzn

    calcruzn Peon

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    #401
    I have the same issue. If you enter "Insurance Agents Dallas " we have the #1 position, and have maintained this position for 6 months since opening that particular directory page. But, if you enter " Insurance Agents San Antonio" we have moved from the #1 position to #556.

    Of the 90 major markets that we had the top position for about 70 of them got pushed back hundreds of positions while 20 of them stayed at the top.

    In addition most of the content on the pages cannot be found when doing specific searches. Even pages that still have the #1 position are missing most of the content from the search results.

    The data refreshes are not solving the problem but just continuing the random shuffling of data.
     
    calcruzn, Sep 20, 2006 IP
  2. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    #402
    Well, my site that was affected had its index page return in the UK search. I don't know if it was coincidence or not but I changed the title and it popped back. I don't think that the title change was the key though. I have a feeling that lots of sites will see a return as I see lots of changes in SERPS indicating perhaps a small update (or data refresh).

    One of my other sites was also affected but I didn't notice :eek: that also looks like it's back.

    I will watch closely though as I note that google has a habit of letting you think everything is OK again and then pulling the rug from under you. Sometimes when it's updating, your SERPS can appear great only to have filters re applied when the update is over and finished. Time will tell.

    Good luck everyone.

    Jez.
     
    Jez, Sep 22, 2006 IP
  3. rkws

    rkws Peon

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    #403
    Google probably went back to it's 30 day back link refresh method. It's better actually. Waiting for 3 -4 months for back link update is very boaring.
     
    rkws, Sep 22, 2006 IP
  4. MikeSwede

    MikeSwede Peon

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    #404
    Here's my first cent:
    A few days before September 15 and in June I saw a sudden influx of visitors from google and I thought that was good. What actually happened was that they mixed the old results with the new results and then June 27th and september 15th they pulled the old results and what was left was only the new influx of visitors.
    Here's my second cent:
    Everybody is discussing what they did wrong, duplicate penalties, redirects and everything else because everbody thinks they did something wrong with their web sites for this to happen. What i think is going on is that Google is doing some "keyword shuffle" because what I see now is that people who comes from Google (the few visitors I get now) find me through totally different keywords/search terms than they did before. Some keywords that I haven't even "targeted" is in the 20 million pages rank and I also see a lot more pages indexed for some keywords. My best guess is that Google right now is testing a new way of indexing pages by keywords and it is not the way SEO's think about keywords. Google doesn't care about our keyword targeting anymore. They have all the keywords they need (from searches) and from that they take the pages using LSI that best matches the keywords. I THINK ketword targeting is dead and "all" we have to do now now is to create pages with content that matches LSI, i.e. pages with good content, good language using synonyms and everything that has to do with the subject (ex. food, eat, cooking, stove, gas, heat, degrees.....)

    Just my 2 cents!
     
    MikeSwede, Sep 25, 2006 IP
  5. reapr

    reapr Peon

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    #405
    Kinda reminds you of the ol' Salem Witch Hunts ... If they sink they were inocent if they float them are witches either way they are gonners ....
    Now It is interesting to note that some of my original content pages sank after enjoying 1st page on G for 6 years. Y still has em'. Some of my crummy spamsence pages are out of the sandbox in the last several weeks. This just goes to show that a G algo is far from perfect and IMO getting worse.
     
    reapr, Sep 26, 2006 IP
  6. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #406
    I'm more inclined to the wibr explanation. I don't think Google was out to change the World of Google, here. I think it was a matter of rationalizing the databases and weeding out spam and it all went terribly wrong and they've been patching and tweaking ever since trying to get it right.

    Evidence: For ages, I was seeing pages that hadn't existed since July 2005 listed in the index while existing pages 3 to 12 months old were not. In the past few months, both the number of pages indexed and the cache dates of those pages fluctuates from day to day - or sometimes even more quickly. Yesterday morning, I was looking at cache dates from last March. By evening, they were back to August and September.

    Simple explanation: Google really messed it up with this one and they do not yet know how to fix it. Meanwhile, instead of doing what he's paid to do, Matt Cutts is posting "what should I wear for Halloween?" articles in his blog.

    noppid had the best suggestion I've seen for that question: How about dressing up as Saddam's Minister of Disinformation?
     
    minstrel, Sep 26, 2006 IP
  7. KLB

    KLB Peon

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    #407
    Agreed. This is what it seemed like to me as well.

    I noticed the same thing. Very old versions of pages kept croping up in search results almost like they were going back to old tapes.

    A good reason to conclude they are trying to fix a "bad data push" and that it is just taking a long time to complete. What Google had was a very bad train wreck in their databases.

    Baddad Bob -- that's priceless! :D
     
    KLB, Sep 26, 2006 IP
  8. ascensions

    ascensions Active Member

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    #408
    I've decided to take a break, I've redirected everything I can, validated HTML all I can. I'm just going to take a break.

    Until then I'm working on a new site, evilmattcutts.com

    :)
     
    ascensions, Sep 26, 2006 IP
  9. LoriVa

    LoriVa Peon

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    #409
    Calcruzn

    Are you sure this isn't due to scrapers who have targeted your major keywords? And I'm speanking about those million page subdomain scrapers to be more exact with only nonsensical numbers and letters in the domain.

    I found one the other day targeting my client by typing in the client's domain (a space) and then one of their file names (widgets.html). This brought anyone linking to that file using that keyword. I found about 8 scrapers as described above with numerous links to sites ranking for that keyword (with no follow on the links of course).

    The sites I checked had what looked like a harmless list of links then a lot of white space with more links and at the bottom of the page they had the keywords repeated about 100 times ALONG WITH bad neighborhood keywords.

    This allows them to rank highly for those words using other site's content so they look legit (unless you scroll down the page). Then they interlink their Million domains sharing the wealth and pushing sites like yours down deeper in the SERPs.

    This could be what Google is trying to eliminate but catching innocent sites in the fray.

    Here are several of them:

    210.dev4b3y.az.pl/
    3030.dev4b3y.az.pl/
    1809.dev4b3y.az.pl/
    3914.dev4b3y.az.pl/
    2860.dev4b3y.az.pl/
    1177.dev4b3y.az.pl/
    614.dev4b3y.az.pl/
    2410.dev4b3y.az.pl/
    3112.dev4b3y.az.pl/

    I reported all of them to Google spam. It usually takes Google 7-10 days to get rid of scrapers.
     
    LoriVa, Sep 26, 2006 IP
  10. calcruzn

    calcruzn Peon

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    #410
     
    calcruzn, Sep 26, 2006 IP
  11. northstar

    northstar Peon

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    #411
    I have a 70% recovery yesterday Sept. 29th from my Aug. 17th drop. Did anyone else have their traffic come back? The only thing I did was on the 28th I put up a robots to block some duplicate content. I'm not yet convinced that it had anything to do with it or whether is was just a coincidence. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my traffic stays and all of yours comes back also.
     
    northstar, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  12. Jocelyn

    Jocelyn Guest

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    #412
    Same here with no changes whatsoever...
     
    Jocelyn, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  13. tflight

    tflight Peon

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    #413
    And the roller-coaster continues.... Great traffic for several years. Lost it June 27. Back on September 16, gone again this morning.
     
    tflight, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  14. northstar

    northstar Peon

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    #414
    I wish we could figure out what was going on. I can't believe it is a penalty since our traffic comes and goes. I don't think it is a new type of rotation that Google is doing because my competitors have remained consistent with my top keywords. It's the million dollar question I guess. Literally since with our combined sites loosing Google traffic which probably results of millions in lost income.
     
    northstar, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  15. gford

    gford Peon

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    #415
    I couldn't agree more! Google has had a stable index for only a few weeks in the past two years. Incredible!
     
    gford, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  16. MikeSwede

    MikeSwede Peon

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    #416
    On Googles main page, google.com, they should have BETA on it since it seems that they can't get their ducks in a row. It seems like they change something in their algo or whatever it is, and then let it loose without any testing at all. Maybe they have a few sites that they know they need to show because if they don't they'll get sued for not showing them, sites like Amazon.com that got their pages back overnight after having been removed by one of Google "down-grades"
    I still think they go by different areas.... like Travel sites, car sites and other places that are popular by scrapers. If they do any testing at all, then they have their favorites that they know need to be there and then after that they might check to see if there are any spam on the first page or so. If they don't spot any spam sites then they just flip the switch and our sites disappear because we tripped something. Next day someone says: "Oh crap.... there's one site we need to show so we need to allow a little bit more" and our site might come back for a day or two just to disappear again.....
    I agree with someone who said "I've decided to take a break, I've redirected everything I can, validated HTML all I can. I'm just going to take a break.
    " because I have also done everything I know of and can't come up with anything else to do :(
     
    MikeSwede, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  17. hans

    hans Well-Known Member

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    #417
    I still belief that google simply totally messed up its data on june 27
    while traffic is up and above normal - most of my pages still are missing in G index
    G index still shows with site:... command
    Results ... of about 8,280
    but when looking at last page Nr 10 - 100 results per page - the results actually end around page 817 - and that is a constant result since the "recovery" in august

    hence some 10% of what G says to have

    and

    for the frirst time in years Google has URLs from my site that never existed, even no smallest relation to any path ever on my site ... only a few dozen such non-existing pages but another point toward
    just a mess created by G so huge that they prefer halloween to hide rather than to face their self-created reality
     
    hans, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  18. enQuira

    enQuira Peon

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    #418
    You talk about google as if you are talking about a webmaster trying to build as many websites as possible. They are more serious in testing and they dont tweak their algorithms to show amazon or any othersite. amazon shows in the serps because it is amazon and if it doesn't there should be a problem somewhere that need to be dealt with, not the other way around.

    PS: I also recovered from june 27, the only change that I made is: remove link-vault completely and deleted all incoming links from it.
     
    enQuira, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  19. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #419
    They messed up their data long before June 27. This started with Big Daddy and it's still ongoing. They have not yet even figured out HOW to fix it, as far as I can see.
     
    minstrel, Sep 30, 2006 IP
  20. NetMidWest

    NetMidWest Peon

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    #420
    So what is your explanation for a PR0 site with 0 backlinks ranking for almost every book title published?
    See:
    http://livepr.raketforskning.com/?u=www.amazon.com
    http://64.233.161.99/search?q=link:www.amazon.com
    It is getting its backlinks and PR back in the current update, so you may need to look at another d/c to see it.

    I do believe that the cause of dumping amazon was Google playing with redirects, since the majority of links to amazon are affiliate links that produce a 301 status code, but any average webmaster would not find themselves reincluded so quickly... I often wonder if Google gets affiliate revenue or consideration of some sort for Amazon listings.
     
    NetMidWest, Oct 2, 2006 IP