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John Boehner receives standing ovation

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Obamanation, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. #1

    You have to respect that. Boehner did what he could to try and get this president to draft a budget, or even consider spending restraint and Obama abjectly refused. I know most Tea Party types, and likely most Americans can appreciate the fact they have someone in Washington who isn't simply going along to get along.

    Meanwhile, the big government Republicans who advocated strongly for NSA spying programs (Sen. McCain, Rep. King, and Sen Flake) all want to press the issue and condemn Boehner for doing the right thing. How nice of them to provide us yet another reason why they need to be removed from office as soon as possible.
    Obamanation, Oct 16, 2013 IP
  2. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Its nice you published this article. On the other hand you cut out part of the article and started throwing out your opinions, O-nation.

    Here is part of the article you left out. Its simply more evidence that there are many Republicans disgusted with the tea party antics:

    Walking out of the meeting to the throng of reporters, the conservatives kept to that script, but the moderates drew their knives out for the Right.

    Representative Peter King of New York urged more Republican officials to speak up about Senator Ted Cruz and “condemn him for what he did.”

    Representative Aaron Schock of Illinois said the lesson of the episode was that Boehner should cut out the far-right flank and work with centrist Democrats.

    Most of the top conservatives who pushed the House GOP into an Obamacare fight weren’t very introspective, offering positive words about the fight and hope for victories to come.

    One conservative, however, did say he had learned a valuable lesson.

    Don’t bite off more than you can chew,” said Representative Dana Rohrabacher of California.

    People should realize that every GOP member that voted against the compromise voted for default by the US. These people are against fiscal responsibility and for throwing people out of work. That is the lesson I learned. Its apparently the lesson most of the US has learned from poll after poll which now has the GOP polling at its lowest level in the history of gallop polls. http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05electio...falls-to-lowest-point-in-gallup-poll-history/

    earlpearl, Oct 17, 2013 IP
  3. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #3
    You must have missed the part of my OP where I specifically included the words of "Rep King", who the author of the article referred to as a "Moderate Republican". LMAO. Here is a guy who never saw a government spying program he didn't like, which puts him out of step with nearly half his own party and most Democrats (until they discovered Obama likes Domestic spying).
    Obamanation, Oct 17, 2013 IP
  4. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #4
    I see by your own admission the GOP is split in half.

    What you fail to mention is how much internal hatred now exists within the GOP. It will be interesting to see how many candidates run against existing tea party candidates and are supported by non tea party members of the GOP. There already is at least one with a candidate opposing tea partier Justin Amash.
    earlpearl, Oct 17, 2013 IP
  5. browntwn

    browntwn Prominent Member

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    #5
    What is interesting is to see how the business community reacts. From what I've read it sounds like a lot of Chamber of Commerce are now willing to step into primary battles to try and get the "moderate" Republicans elected over the "Tea Party" Republicans. Previously, they were just backing the winner against the Democrat.

    It looks to me like the Tea Party did one of the few things they could have to harm their own prospects for taking over more of the Republican party. It will be interesting to watch, but I don't think they did themselves any favors with this fight, with the obvious exception being Ted Cruz's donations.
    browntwn, Oct 17, 2013 IP
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  6. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Who cares. The Chamber of Commerce has been in lock step with the Unions in calling for open borders for quite some time now. More and more, the Chamber has the appearance and reality of being a proxy for the mega wealthy and large business, completely out of touch of the needs of small businessmen.

    If the argument is that the Chamber's money will influence elections, I think that is complete crap. Sure, money always has an influence on elections. If you are unknown and broke, you will never get elected. Once you get past that threshold, there is no amount of money that can make a flawed candidate unflawed, a boring candidate exciting, or a good candidate bad. Most of the Tea Party candidates that have come to power have done so extremely underfunded by comparison to their competition. I very seriously doubt that any Tea Party candidate will hurt for the money it takes to become known, and most will have all the money they need to compete in the smear fest.

    I think Ted Cruz's donations are the rule, not the exception. Take Corey Booker vs Lonegan in Jersey. The election occurred just as the deal was brokered, and prior to the government shutdown, Booker was consistently leading by more than 20 points. Once Lonegan, a Tea Party candidate, voiced support for the shutdown/debt ceiling fight, Lonegan closed in the polls to ~12, and finished the election only 9 points down in liberal New Jersey. Booker specifically made labeling Lonegan "Mr. Tea Party" part of his campaign, tying his name to the whole DC debacle whenever possible.

    I completely understand why institutional Republicans like McCain and Rep. King are blasting away vocally at the Tea Party. It is fear of the loss of the government job they have executed poorly for many years. Hard to tell them from the Democrats really.

    Earl can cite all the polls he likes, talking about Tea Party popularity at 20% (where it has been for a very long time). There are several truths that make that number fairly meaningless
    • Tea Party supporters are possibly the most engaged voter base in the country right now. There maybe some that thought this effort was a fools errand, but I doubt it has impacted their zeal in the slightest.
    • Obama's poll numbers are scraping new lows, with some polls showing him under 40%
    • Democrats and congress on the whole remain about as popular as leprosy. Claiming that 55% of the population hates some group while only 45% hate you doesn't change the fact 45% of the country still hates you
    • Obama's "victory" in this fight can be summed up by saying, "I won the ability to raise the debt ceiling without having to be fiscally responsible, while China and others are downgrading our debt, not for political infighting, but based on the fact we have no fiscal restraint". Lets hope Democrats run on that "Victory" in 2014.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
    Obamanation, Oct 17, 2013 IP
  7. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #7
    Bwahhahaa. The party has been split in half since 2008, when the GOP(and Democrats) bailed out Wall Street and not main street. Sure there is internal hatred. Institutional Republicans live in fear of a mafia like Tea Party (Al Queda I think you called them), that will have them voted out of office in their own primaries if they don't at least make an effort to do the will of the people. While I completely disagree that using the power of populism to change the results of local elections can be accurately compared to Al Queda, or the Mafia for that matter, I definitely appreciate the fact our elected leaders now fear us. Its about time.

    Its a shame Obama is too much of a dumb ass to work even a little bit towards the "extremist" goals of that group, like reducing the size of government or making a serious efforts to lowering the debt/deficit. The more intransigent Obama remains, the more belligerent the Tea Party will become. The man is actually exacerbating his own problem.

    BTW Earl, my wife just got notice from our insurance provider that they will no longer carry our policy, forcing her onto the Exchange. She just priced the policy there, which is not quite as good as what she had. Triple the price. There is not a family in California making over 94k that was on the private insurance market that is not experiencing the same sticker shock right now. There are a few policies that were grandfathered in until 2015, at which point they too will go, and I suspect we will see another astronomical spike in rates. By election day 2014, and certainly by election day 2016, I doubt there will be a single Democrat bragging about how they avoided having to reform or repeal ObamaCare in the government shutdown of 2013.

    As a Democrat, you know you've lost when the SF Chronicle is saying you suck.

    http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/saund...ters-bill-of-goods-on-health-care-4876722.php
    Obamanation, Oct 17, 2013 IP
  8. StealthMogul

    StealthMogul Member

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    #8
    You held the country hostage and you lost. That's what just happened.

    You want to repeal Obamacare? Win an election. That's the lesson you just learned.

    Oh BTW, you just made it harder than ever for a tea party candidate to ever win a national level election.
    StealthMogul, Oct 18, 2013 IP
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  9. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #9
    The tea party and radical right wing politics is completely disconnected from small business. Its political mouthpieces scream about it but time and again when it enforces policies of any sort it kills the economy and crushes small business. The right wing is responsible for the great recession. Under the right wing we had a real estate bubble and ZERO regulation or oversight on business. The lenders were creating loans that were criminal like, there was no oversight on any part of wall street, the republican administration completely refused to regulate to stop the abuses. It didn't regulate on the real estate side. It didn't regulate on the banking side. It let every big business create an environment that exploded into the worst recession in modern times.

    That completely screwed small business. Small business was eviscerated by the recession. (that means embowled). Destroyed by the destruction of demand.

    The right wing voted overwhelmingly against TARP at the end of September, 2008. Stock markets crashed. Evaporated. In the states and around the world. There was an instant big increase in LIBOR interest rates. Those effect everything from car loans to business loans, to mortgages to student loans to you name it. That would have destroyed every part of the economy.

    That crushing reality created an instant change in the House vote that allowed TARP to pass. Ultimately the economy recovered. The far right wing is as out of touch with economic realities as any entity out there.

    Just now the tea partiers voted overwhelmingly for US default. What economic idiot would do that? (bin laden would do it). The tea party has no connection with business reality.
    Any small business that depends on credit was crushed in the recession and would have been decimated by a federal default. It is the most disconnected group of loud mouthed extremists focusing on an issue they hate (expansion of medical care) and painting it as the biggest villain ever.

    Hey tea partiers. RomneyCare works. It works. Its been working for years. More extreme forms of what is truly socialized medicine exist all over the world. They work. Only in the heated anger filled world of the tea party is this incredible development and every day escalation of anger and hatred.

    Obamacare as structured is completely based on what was a Conservative idea first developed by what was long considered the think tank for conservative thought. The Heritage Foundation (not the political wing of the Heritage Group now run by tea party radical Jim Demint)

    The tea party is not against spending. Its only against spending it doesn't like. Not one friggin tea partier spoke up about the ridiculous overspending of defense contractors.

    That is an enormous rip off of government funding. Enormous.

    When Eric Snowden gained fame for revealing government secrets he had just left his last contractor job with Booze Allen Hamilton. Look at Booze Allen's financials. Its a publicly owned company mostly controlled by wealthy billionaires. Its business--its revenues are basically 98 or 99% totally based on government work.

    Look at its financials. It is charging taxpayers at least $2 for every $1 of work. At least. Its a rip off. They did about $5.8 billion a year in government billings over the last 2 years. That is double what that work should cost tax payers. They have several executives each making 7 figures in income. How many government workers earn over $1 million/year? NONE.

    If whatever they do was considered essential and every actual worker was paid 20% more, which the workers would love...and converted to a government worker they would save the tax payers billions of dollars. Billions!!!! multiply that by defense and security contractors around the world for every government contractor and tax payers could save billions on top of billions every year without any change in output. Billions. Without even considering if the work was essential.

    This is such an easy way to cut. But the tea party who screams about debt and government expenses won't touch this with a ten foot pole. Not one of them opens their mouths about this outrageous example of complete government sugar daddy's and supporters of corporate socialism.

    its a disgrace. The tea party would rather drive government workers out of work, drive endless businesses out of work through this shutdown...and then start screaming about some political BS.

    Its no wonder so many actual republicans hate the tea party with a vengeance. The output of its extreme radicalism is tantamount to what bin laden could only wish for.

    For the first time now more traditionally conservative republicans are going to run candidates against tea party fanatics that voted for a default. It will be interesting to see how this plays out from the conservative side.
    earlpearl, Oct 18, 2013 IP
  10. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #10
    I think you mean disemboweled.
    Obamanation, Oct 18, 2013 IP
  11. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #11
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] '

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Obamanation, Oct 19, 2013 IP
  12. StealthMogul

    StealthMogul Member

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    #12
    You want to repeal Obamacare? Win an election. That's the lesson you just learned.
    StealthMogul, Oct 19, 2013 IP
  13. ApocalypseXL

    ApocalypseXL Notable Member

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    #13
    Did you just asked for a dictatorship ? Because your idea sounds like this : winning party makes all the decisions and the rest are useless. Sounds a bit like what communist parties do every time they get in power. Democracy means that laws are debated and up for modifications at any time by the legislative. You don't like that you can go to North Korea , China or Zimbabwe .
    ApocalypseXL, Oct 19, 2013 IP
  14. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #14
    Good work O-nation. You just passed the test for an editor that corrects words, spelling and grammer. I did mean disembowled.

    You might need to spread your editorial skills to some of the right wing contingent on this forum. For instance its easy to see that ApocalypseXL has no understanding of English or simple sentences via his last response:


    You want to repeal Obamacare? Win an election.
    Did you just asked for a dictatorship ? Because your idea sounds like this : winning party makes all the decisions and the rest are useless. Sounds a bit like what communist parties do every time they get in power. Democracy means that laws are debated and up for modifications at any time by the legislative. You don't like that you can go to North Korea , China or Zimbabwe .


    The simple sentence Win an election refers to the process of democracy. Its clear by his angry response Apocalypse doesn't get that. Meanwhile with the right wing blackmail threat averted for the time being, representatives of the house and senate are going to try and work out a budget. Two different budgets were passed by the two houses. Now they are going to negotiate between them. In fact that is precisely what Obama suggested in lieu of the tea party blackmail threat.
    earlpearl, Oct 19, 2013 IP
  15. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #15
    It refers to part of the democratic process, yes. If it were ALL of the democratic process, Obama's approval numbers would still be in the 60s instead of the 30s. Unfortunately for him, the democratic process also involves governing and working with other people who were also democratically elected. Specifically speaking, the 30 or so most "intransigent" congressmen were elected to their second term at the same time Obama was reelected to his. Just as Obama ran on the fact he passed ObamaCare, they ran on repealing, replacing, or overhauling it. Everyone else just gets to live with it, and only 37% of those people like it.

    Anyhow, I didn't bite at his strawman of wanting to repeal ObamaCare because the House wasn't asking for repeal in exchange for raising the debt ceiling or passing a CR. What they asked for was a one year delay on the individual mandate, something that is WILDLY popular with the American people. If congress, or Obama reflected the will of the people, we would have that one year delay, right now. As far as winning elections is concerned, the fact Obama and his intransigent know nothings in congress defied the will of the people will be brought up again and again throughout the next election year. Say goodbye to the Senate.
    Obamanation, Oct 19, 2013 IP
  16. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #16
    Just read a fascinating op-ed in the Boston Herald I thought summed the situation up nicely.

    -------------
    Who else but Republicans would give a standing ovation to the coach who just led them into a humiliating defeat?

    It happened Wednesday, as some Republicans saluted U.S. House Speaker John Boehner and patted themselves on the back for being willing to lose a fight over principle. “We won a moral victory,” one GOP lawmaker said.

    And what do you call a politician who just won a “moral” victory?

    A “loser.”

    Which is why good ol’
“Bipartisan Barack” relished the chance to mock the GOP yesterday with his comment: “Don’t like a particular policy? ... Go out there and win an election.”

    Enjoy the moment, Mr. President. If the GOP is dumb enough to lose on purpose, you deserve it.

    But I predict that — like the phrase “If you like your health coverage, you can keep it. Period.” — this will come back to haunt him.

    At this moment, the GOP is at its lowest point and the Democrats are at their highest. President Obama is gloating over a political win handed to him by Republicans who picked a stupid fight (ending Obamacare immediately) and used stupid tactics (tying it to the debt ceiling).

    But what did Democrats actually win? Did the president get a blank check? Is Obama-care beyond the reach of this Congress or the next?

    Those two fights are ideal political territory for the GOP.

    I don’t even have to write about how dismally awful the Obamacare rollout is going. Hilariously, Democrats are telling themselves that, by next spring, it’s going to look much better.

    Uh ... guys? You haven’t even started forcing people to buy it yet. And already, according to Kaiser Public Opinion, 54 percent of Americans have a “very unfavorable” view of the individual mandate.

    And guess which specific part of Obamacare the Republicans just forced every Democrat in the House and Senate to explicitly vote in support of?

    Bingo.

    Between now and next November, millions of Americans are going to find out that a) they’ve lost coverage they like; b) their premiums are going up; or c) both. Even the “Friends of Obama” will be getting bad news that their special-interest delays and exemptions are ending.

    To paraphrase P.J. O’Rourke: If you think people hate Obama-care now, wait until they have to write a check for it.

    Then there’s the debt and spending. Polls show that a majority of Americans would rather bust the debt ceiling and default than add to Obama’s record-setting deficits. Do they really mean it? No, but it shows how much Americans hate this debt — hate it at the political cellular level.

    Hey, didn’t members of one party just spend weeks outraged over their inability to get a “clean” debt ceiling increase? Doesn’t one party truly own the “borrow more to spend more” mantle today in a way they didn’t just a few weeks ago?

    Ask yourself: A year from now, when the stupidity of the shutdown fight is long gone, who would you rather be: Team “Obamacare Sucks And We’ve Got Too Much Debt”?

    Or Team “I Voted to Shut Down the Government Rather Than Change Obamacare or Spend Less Money”?

    ----------------
    http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...14_gop_to_get_last_laugh#sthash.3wBwWWbW.dpuf



    Obama, it seems, is a kindred spirit to Charlie Sheen.... WINNING!!!
    Obamanation, Oct 19, 2013 IP
  17. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #17
    That is a terrific piece from a tea party publication. Its ironic that its from Boston where RomneyCare operates in Massachusetts. Do you want to know how RomneyCare is working in Massachusetts and how the people in the state feel about it?

    Right wing extremists tried to get a petition signed to repeal RomneyCare. They couldn't get enough people to sign the petition. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/01/20/romney-care-massachusetts-healthcare-reform/

    That is laughable. That is a joke. All sorts of petitions get signed and generated all over the nation on any topic. RomneyCare, on which obamacare is strongly based is working so well a measly Massachusetts petition couldn't get enough people to sign it to get it submitted. That is laughable.

    It works. It works so well that the politicians in Massachusetts get together or make it work better and refine it. Its moved uninsured people to 1% of the population. That is it. In the US around 16% or more are uninsured. When those 16% get health care tax payers pay for it. tea partiers want more people to be uninsured. That will raise costs for taxpayers. That is stupid.

    But what can you expect from the tea party? Over 140 tea party members of the House and 18 tea party Senators voted for the United States to default on its debt.

    Who would vote to get the US to default?

    If they could vote I'll give you a list:

    North Korea
    Al Queda
    taliban
    the dead bin laden.

    China doesn't want the US to default. Clearly the economic world doesn't want the US to default. The stock markets across the world soared when the shutdown was ended and the default was averted.

    But tea partiers want default and they voted for it. They just aren't a majority.

    Main stream Republicans across the nation now hate the tea party. The business world hates the tea party. Independents hate the tea party. Need I say more?
    earlpearl, Oct 20, 2013 IP
  18. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #18
    According to Kaiser Public Opinion, 54 percent of Americans have a “very unfavorable” view of the individual mandate.

    And guess which specific part of Obamacare the Republicans just forced every Democrat in the House and Senate to explicitly vote in support of?

    The individual mandate.

    Polls show that a majority of Americans would rather bust the debt ceiling and default than add to Obama’s record-setting deficits. Do they really mean it? No, but it shows how much Americans hate this debt — hate it at the political cellular level.

    Hey, didn’t members of one party just spend weeks outraged over their inability to get a “clean” debt ceiling increase? Doesn’t one party truly own the “borrow more to spend more” mantle today in a way they didn’t just a few weeks ago?

    Ask yourself: A year from now, when the stupidity of the shutdown fight is long gone, who would you rather be: Team “Obamacare Sucks And We’ve Got Too Much Debt”?
    Or Team “I Voted to Shut Down the Government Rather Than Change Obamacare or Spend Less Money”?

    -------
    While you rant and rave like some kind of lunatic, the Tea Party congress is doing the work of the people. Every poll bears this out, and in 2014, it will be tested at the polls.

    By the way Earl, a few differences between RomneyCare and ObamaCare you seem to have overlooked.

    1) Romney Care, by the very definition of it's name, was put in place as a bi-partisan effort. ObamaCare, on the other hand, required bribes and kickbacks to get Democrats to vote for it while not one Republican voted for it.
    2) Romney Care was a state law, Obama Care is a federal law. States, counties,and municipalities have a much wider array of things that are permissible by law. I doubt, for instance, you would want to see Arizona's open carry laws instituted country wide, even though they work very well in Arizona and Wyoming
    3) The ACA was found unconstitutional under the commerce clause, but passed SCOTUS constitutional muster as a tax (On the middle class and the poor). To quote the author of the majority finding:

    "Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority. Congress already possesses expansive power to regulate what people do. Upholding the Affordable Care Act under the Commerce Clause would give Congress the same license to regulate what people do not do. The Framers knew the difference between doing something and doing nothing. They gave Congress the power to regulate commerce, not to compel it. Ignoring that distinction would undermine the principle that the Federal Government is a government of limited and enumerated powers. The individual mandate thus cannot be sustained under Congress’s power to “regulate Commerce.”"
    Obamanation, Oct 20, 2013 IP
  19. StealthMogul

    StealthMogul Member

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    #19
    Oh, you must be a Republican supporter. Blind one-sided thinking doesn't let you see the clear holes in your logic. So that makes you an obvious partisan and the red meat word dropping like socialist, dictator, muslim, communist, etc are a clear giveaway of which side. I bolded some of em for you.

    You see in your silly little argument there, you pointed out that laws are "debated and up for modifications" not realizing how ignorant that makes you look because the law has already been debated and both sides modified the hell out of it until became the watered down confusing mess that it is today. Did you not know that? Of course you did. Unfortunately you're one of those folks who rails against the other side even when you know what you're saying is a misrepresentation or even patently untrue.

    Sorry, I don't really take sides. I agree Obamacare has some serious flaws and that it probably should have been delayed. I just don't agree with how the Republicans tried to go about doing it. My comment about winning an election, though you took it as me quoting the President because you hate him so much it caused you to blind rage, wasn't a talking point at all. I meant it at face value. Do you not remember Romney saying he would have repealed Obamacare on day one? Had he won the election he could have done so... Instead of holding up necessary legislation to keep our nation running they could have simply waited until the mid terms which are literally just one year away. That was my point.

    Folks like you add zero to the social and political discourse but instead just create more noise. Please think first next time.
    StealthMogul, Oct 22, 2013 IP
  20. grpaul

    grpaul Active Member

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    #20
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
    grpaul, Oct 22, 2013 IP