Nah, most people are taking issue at Joel himself. The man Joel, his character - he is a wanker, thus naturally his product will be attacked in any which way possible. Joels product unfortunately is the only thing he's able to defend. Let's have more attacks on his character - he can't escape or worm his way out of being a tit of the highest order. Pete
1) For the record, this thread makes me smile. No press is bad press. 2) I have been a publisher since 1995, so I was a webmaster long before I was an author. 3) The ebook was written back in late 2004, before there was much discussion at all online. I created it completely from my own experience. I wouldn't even purchase or read other people's AdSense ebooks (there was one or two at the time) because I didn't want to be accused of plageurizing. It's been updated since then, but not as a result of copying other people's material. That would be unethical. 4) If people want to call me names, so be it. Besides, we don't have "wankers" in the United States. 5) eh.. I don't wanna address any more false accusations. 6) The TRS-80 rocked! Joel
Your welcome Joel. If anybody in this thread ever writes an e-book we fully expect you to return the favor and do the same for us and boost our site traffic as well ;-) Although the OP, Shoemoney, won't need it.
hmm, looks like a fight between the RED (dzcap, IamNed) team and GREEN aeiouy, TheWebmaster) team. Which team should I support....
Nah, I won't jump on anyone's throat, that's not my style! I really can't comment on the content of Joel's book, as I haven't read it yet. We're going to exchange books and then we can see what "the competition" is all about. Although we really go after different markets. Since I can't comment on his book -- and I doubt I ever will in public -- all I can talk about are my own experiences. People write books for different reasons, just like they create websites for different reasons. Fame, fortune, fun... these are things I've discussed before here and in my blog. I like writing, and I like writing about computers in particular, and I've been doing it for 25 years now. Mostly I write technical things, this is true. However, my book came about because both my sister and my father got interested in the AdSense ads I was displaying on my site and how I was making money. They even went to a Site Build It! seminar. So I thought if they were interested in learning all this stuff -- and for them it was all new, including all the basic website stuff -- then surely there was a market for a good introductory book about AdSense. So I pitched the idea to a publisher, they accepted it, and here I am. The printed book business (the one I'm in) is a very weird business and is very different from the e-book business (the one Joel's in). Most printed books do not earn their authors a lot of money. I get about $1.25 per copy of each book I sell, which is very typical -- you get a royalty rate based on the wholesale price of the book. Economically, it makes no sense to write a printed book. But it's not all monetary rewards, of course. Getting your name on a book someone else (not you) publishes is an accomplishment -- someone believed enough in you to spend money to edit, design, print and distribute a book. You develop reputation in your niche. You may get job offers or consulting projects. Intangible benefits can outweigh the tangible benefits. To make a living as a printed book writer, though, you have to work hard. Most of the authors I know are part-time authors. (Hmm... keep seeing parallels to AdSense sites...) As you can see, the business model for printed books is very different from Joel's model. In that model, you write the book in PDF format and sell it digitally on the Internet. Your per-copy return is much higher, Joel probably averages $30-$40 per copy in net returns. You can take advantage of affiliate networks. You can offer instant gratification. Economically, it makes a lot more sense to sell them this way, at least for the author. Publishers are having trouble with e-books because they don't really add much value to the process. They fund the printed book process, so they get to control it. But with e-books, authors can keep control. They can outsource the things they need done -- copyediting, design, selling -- and keep more of the money for themselves. But the selling model is very different, too. Many of my readers see the book on the shelf at the bookstore. It has a pretty flashy cover and a catchy title, though it does sound kind of spammy when you don't have the physical book there in your hand. But at the bookstore they can look through the book, see what it's about, see immediately if it interests them, and either buy it or put it back on the shelf. E-books, on the other hand, can't be seen before they're bought. Oh, sure, you can publish sample chapters and such, but you can't give away too much. So because you can't touch the book, the selling process is different. You have to convince the potential reader that the book is legitimate -- hence all the testimonials. You have to offer instant refunds. You have to push, push, push. (Well, really, printed book authors have to push, push, push, too, because the publisher has too many books to devote much energy to individual titles. But that's a different topic.) Hmm... this ended up being an essay about publishing! Anyhow, e-books are still a relatively new phenomenon that many people aren't comfortable with. The people reading this can't believe that Joel can sell his AdSense book for $97 because everything is available for free if you have the time to search for it. But not everyone does. Not everyone wants to spend the time piecing together this and that to come up with a cohesive whole. So books get written to do that for you, to save you the time and energy. Or to present the material in a certain way, to organize it differently. Whatever. So how can Joel charge $97 for his book? Because that's what the market will bear! That's what it comes down to. If he's netting $30 a book (and that's just a complete guess on my part) then just 100 books a month makes him $3000. And the selling is mostly automated. Kind of like an AdSense site.... So between the two of us, who's the fool and who's the smartie? Can you guess?
Both are fool. HEHE, Just kidding of course. For me, everyone have their own expertise, and nobody is fool, its just that whether you fully utilise it or not..
Yeah, it's like why buy a book on learning [insert software program here] when you can find all the tips and information you need online. Is your time finding the information worth $97? That's what it comes down to. Someone actually thought he is taking advantage of people, LOL! Why do people find this so hard to understand.....
I can vouch for this, Eric! I co-authored a printed book in 1997. "Internet Family Fun: The Parent's Guide to Safe Surfing" (No Starch Press). I think you can find it used on Amazon for .01 now. hehe... Joel
Really? Did you see him bash one of my websites and then try to sell me his e-book? Who do you think his target audience is? I never argued otherwise. Perhaps you need an e-book about reading comprehension. I just said the perceived value from this quarter was not there. I am sure he has people who bought his book and perceive it worthwhile. That is why it is analogy. The point being made that just because someone can find a buyer for something doesn't mean they are not taking advantage of others.. The analogy is accurate and stands. Finally you got something right. Yes. I am very jealous of his success. You and him have said that about 5 times now. It is so clear my envy just oozes out of me.
Who cares? Nah I am not figting with anyone. I am just expressing my point of view, which is, of cource pi$$ing the other team off, as you can see
What a waste of my time. Could it be you can't comprehend your own posts? Bottomline is you seem to have a problem with the contents of the ebook and/or the price of the ebook. Isn't that what you're arguing all along? If you weren't questioning the contents or worth of the ebook, why are you bringing up people being taken advantage of? Your analogy is horrible. Since when is providing a product taking advantage of others? You need to grasp how business is done, and quickly.
Well you've managed to place this thread 4th on Google for Joel Comm with the title 'Joel Comm fraud or real?'. Do you class that as a win for Joel too? Nice going, Shoemoney. Claim your $10. Wanker. Pete