Joel Comm fraud or real ?

Jumping into the fray with my very first post on this forum.

I have JC's book and it has good information. Yes, you can dig around and find that information elsewhere on the web but many people (myself included) didn't even know the right questions to ask. Joel's taken his experience and experimentations that worked for him and put it into an ebook.

Am I making more money because of it? No. This techniques were implemented on a site that already had good traffic. I'm not there yet.

JLawrence: if you just put up a site that is now making $50+ a day and can throw up 20 more of those (and each make $50+ a day), then you are where I want to be. I would love for you to write an ebook on how you do it and no, I wouldn't feel like a fool. But you would have to price it so those of us who are not making $50+ a day could afford it.

Peace & Blessings,
White Wolf

 

I HATE yellow highlighting. HATE HATE HATE. It's so cheap and reminds me of oily used-car salesmen. Google should add a filter for yellow-highlighted text

Even if it is part of some magical formula they learnt in Hogwash's School For Scamming Retards and Gullible People, you'd think they'd try avoid the stigma attached to those layouts...

 

It doesn't look very classy, that's for sure!

 

BP are running adverts on the TV in the UK with the same yellow highlighting, to sell us the idea they care about 'clean energy'.

Pete

 

While I share your general reaction to that kind of a sales page, these pages work, otherwise so many people wouldn't be using them. There are books out there like Words That Sell and The Ultimate Sales Letter that talk about these kinds of techniques.

 

The technique works for the right target audience. A professional, or someone who already has good knowledge of the subject, isn't who they are targeting. They are targeting a person with little or no knowledge, or trying to appeal to the "Get Rich, Quick and Easy" market- just like info commercials.

Personally, I hate that format. I would feel like a sucker if I purchased anything from a site like that - even if the product or service was genuine.

 

Ah, that's what I've been doing wrong! Better get busy building those sales pages Reminds me of my first and only sales job, selling Commodore VIC-20s in a stereo store in Northern Alberta and telling people they didn't need a computer to store their recipes... didn't last long in that one...

 

can this thread be brought tom an end without becoming spamy publicity for this hot air -nothing?!

 

Sure they work, Eric. When I had my first sales job, the company provided tools that were proven effective for closing the sale. If you used the tools, you closed more deals. If you didn't, your numbers were lower. So who would be foolish enough to not use the tools that would make your sales appoach more effective? The "purists" who say these tools are somehow offensive will never be your market anyhow. The cynics and naysayers will always be just that, cynics and naysayers. Those who are teachable will seek to apply conventional wisdom to their own business model and benefit from those who have gone before.

By the way, nice to finally meet you Eric. Pretty cool to find out that we have a common friend as well.

Joel

 

Of course they work - if they didn't then there wouldn't be so damn many of them.
What pisses me off with these type of sale pages is finding the actual bit that tells me the price - JC could you start advising people to put a link at the top 'cut the crap' which just jumps to the buy details .
Normally, when I come across these sales pages I'm looking for a specific bit of software (or a specific ebook). First I want to know the price, if I think it sounds reasonable then I buy it. If I think it sounds a bit steep then I read a bit more about what it can do - then I buy it .
Oh, and for anything I've bought from these sales pages I've never asked for a refund (ever). I've got plenty of 'crap' bits and bobs stored - just 'cos I think they're crap now doesn't mean I won't be able to pull some nugget from the at somepoint in the future.
And no I don't think I've ever bought anything of JC's.
I'm only commenting here because like SM, I don't know if he's a fraud or not - personally I doubt it. Most frauds talk about outrageous amounts of money, I know that people can earn the amounts that JC's page talks about (as does SM). So the amounts aren't in question, and that alone makes me think that JC's probably not a fraud.

I've worked in sales in the past, and I know that what closes sales 9 times out of ten is what I consider cheesy. It's the tacky lines over and over and over again that closes sales. Put an idea in front of a person often enough and they'll buy it and that's what these pages do. Us so called 'experts' might not scroll down the page, but 'normal' people do, and remember that many many of these ebooks aren't targetted at us 'experts' they're written for 'Joe Average' who doesn't really have a clue - and for him they're a fantasitc tool, if he follows what the books say he will earn something. On the other hand, put him in this forum (or others like it) where he could find exactly the same (or even more up to date) info and he'll be completely and utterly lost as to what to do.

 

The real challenge here is to close sales while keeping your dignity and sense of class

 

Mike, sales isn't about class and dignity - it's about closing the deal.
If you close the deal you earn the respect of your peers - in this case other salesmen. It's not about someone earning my respect (or yours). It's about making money and closing the deal. The very best salesmen manage to achieve everything, the respect of their peers, the respect of their customers, the respect of people in other areas of the industry, and they sleep well at night . But not everyone can be (or become) the best, so they must settle for being meerly good.
Good salesmen simply close the deal and thus make money.
They might not be happy with what they are, but they close the deal.

 

I guess you're right. I just really dislike sites with that spammy look to it. I would like to believe that quality survives, but I guess it's not always like that.

 

Yup. I've written four books so far (mostly technical, though) and you could always argue that the information is out there for anyone to find it already. But a good book author doesn't just regurgitate the information, he or she organizes it and links it all together. Some people like surfing the forums, others look for books. It's your choice, really, and what works for you may not work for others.

 

OK, even though this has been asked before: you really think that the look of you guys' site (Eric and Joel) is what works in this industry? I'm not denying it does and would like some insight. I know you guys make enough to get something cleaner

 

hehe... maybe we can come up with a standard "cut the crap" button and sell it to other marketers. I can see the headline now...

"Amazing graphic image shortens time between sales and sends bursts of cash direct to your bank account! - Now on sale for a limited time - The amazing Cut the Crap button! - only $599.99" ;-)

WOW! Everyone should read and re-read this statement. This is the sign of a true student. I am dumbfounded when people return a product and say " I know everything in the book". Nonsense. No one knows everything, and smart people look for the "one nugget" that can give them more of what they want. Jlawrence, you are a wise one.

perhaps it is time to change that? Have you tried www.konterasecrets.com?

"Cheesy" or not, people need to be told again and again what the benefits are. And the truth of marketing is that people buy for emotional reasons. That doesn't mean there isn't substance behind the "pitch". It just means that in order to affect behavior, you have to reach people in their hearts and minds.

Nice to see this discussion turn civil and constructive, btw...

Joel

 

Mike,

It works better than anything else. I just spent the past weekend at Armand Morin's Big Seminar in Los Angeles, listening to some of the world's best Internet marketers and copywriters speak. There is no doubt about it. Killer copy and single column format is what works.

My material would be no different if I created a page that looked more like you would prefer. But my sales would go down. So what is the smart thing to do? I don't believe I sacrifice my integrity at all. I am an honest person providing a quality product with many happy customers. At the end of the day, my customers win and I win. And that is what sales is all about.

Joel

 

At the end of the day, you're right that's what sales is all about.
Most customers come to a sales site looking for something. It could be that they know what they want, and many times they just need you to remind them what they want and why they want it. Remind them of this enough and they'll buy it from you.
It might be a good idea to start a thread on the forums somewhere to introduce people to the basics of selling. The huge majoritiy of people have no idea about the science of selling, and we have many people on this board that would find it interesting.

Eric, you're quite right. For most of the technical books that I own (>100) I can find the information online if I wanted. But I buy books on specific subject because a) the book organizes things in a way that's easy to follow, or b) I can lay my hands on the info without having to be sat in front of a screen. And sometimes it's simply easier to read from a book rather than on a screen.

 

Well, I dont know whether his ebook is a fraud or not but his sites are fraud sites, that is for sure.

Joel has an adsense forum adsensechat.com. I came across that forum because someone accused one of my site of being spam there.
and you know the funniest thing what I found there?
Joel and his fan club always talks about SE/Adsense ethics but he is breacking adsense ethics on that forum, very openly.
example-


This is a clear adsense TOS violation. I realy want to see what joel has to say about it.

 

Actually, I don't have any of those long, single-column sales pages. Most of my site is taken up with my AdSense blog, I just have a few pages describing my book. Pretty normal site, actually, definitely not a hard sell or anything. I can truthfully say I have no sales training at all, and it shows! The publisher actually does a lot of the sales work for me, of course, in convincing booksellers to stock the book. Yes, I could do better promotion of the book, but I spend too much time writing blog entries and answering questions here