Jesus praying for Muslims in the Bible!

Anyone can look deep enough into any written document and debate contradictions. That is all part of our human imperfection. Basically, we ALL make mistakes, in all facets of life. No one is exempt from this.

In saying this, you say there are contradictions found in the Bible. Fair enough. That is your opinion. Now tell me this. If you say there are contradictions in the Bible, then you are really saying the Bible is falsified or has an agenda.

So, if this were to be true. Tell me why? Tell me what the agenda is? What possible gain can someone or some group have by falsifying 66 books written over thousands of years by over 40 men?

The only possible way that the Bible can actually "be" is that God wanted it to "be". Man is too stupid to make up a lie this big using so many men over such a long period of time.

Think about it man! Think about what you are implying here.

Col

 

And what you always do is make unfounded accusations, I haven't changed anything ... I have quoted from "Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words" hence it is that eminent work which you chose to disagree with.
Fine if you wish to disagree with a Greek Scholar over the meaning of Greek, that is your perogative if you are qualified to do so ... are you a Greek scholar Ahmad?

Sadly your knowledge of the so-called 'cricifixion' is inadequate, Peter was NOT "the only disciple who witnessed the 'crucifixion'", close witnesses were his mother, Mary the wife of Clopas, Mary Magdalene and John.

As for Peter not accepting the death and resurrection of Jesus consider this:-

So Peter believed that Jesus had died!
Also the ones that sought to kill Jesus believed he was dead and spoke of Peter and the others bringing 'this man's blood' upon them.

Let's introduce two other witnesses, Joseph of Arimathea and Nichodemus, (Joseph was a member of the Jewish Sanhedrin):-

Now if we believe you, neither Joseph nor Nichodemus knew that the man they 'embalmed' and 'buried' in the tomb wasn't dead and not only that but that Pilate and his men didn't know that Jesus wasn't dead either ... too ridiculous for words!

Ahmad if there was ever a time to prove that Jesus had not died, all of those Jewish Religious leaders in the Sanhedrin would have done so; all of the Romans would have done so and Jewish historians like Josephus would have recorded it but they didn't!
If what you say was true Jesus would have been shown up as a fraud and you would never have had his disciples prepared to die for him or his opponents seeking to silence those who spoke of his death and resurrection.
That did not happen ... why?
Because he did die and he was resurrected.
Only the Muslims appear to believe in Jesus Christ but fail to understand the recorded history, (both in the bible record of witnesses and in prophecy and in secular history of the day as recorded by noted historians like Josephus), that demonstrates clearly that he died.

 

Again contradictions!
You say Peter wasn't the only one.
Matthew 26
56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.

And how can you say he died when Peter said this:

The reason why historians say he died is given here by Peter, in Psalms 91 and in the Quran. A SUBSTITUTE WAS PUT TO DEATH IN HIS PLACE!

 

That's what I say! Humans make mistakes! And the authors of the Bible did this! If God wanted it to be His last word, He would have protected it like the Quran!
God says in the Quran:

"Do they not ponder on the Qur'an? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy. (The Noble Quran, 4:82)"

It makes me sad what they did with the Bible! Because God says that the Injeel was once His word. But you changed it to Bible. But no one could do that to the Quran, you know why? Because God says in the Quran:

“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)” [15:9]

 

http://www.apostatesofislam.com

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JP1ovYySoM

 

Very informative link kozishu thanks for posting
http://www.alkonym.com/index.php?__...kir+naik+debate+with+william+campbell&search=
Have a good day.

 

Do you have anything comparable to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkvXpazQrD0

 

They are. That's the problem. There're very few countries that have not lost citizens to Muslim terrorists. Buddhists and Hindus and Jews get it the worst.

They're carrying out God's justice just like the Koran tells them to.

 

That has absolutely no significance to the argument whatsoever, they left him at his 'moment of need' but the record shows that those I previously mentioned were with him when he died.

Simple, he never did say that, it is not in the bible and it is apostate material.

Peter didn't ever deny the death of Jesus, he confirmed it as I have already shown ... Psalm 91 nowhere says that Jesus didn't die and as for the Quran, well believe what you will Ahmed, I certainly don't accept it as the inspired Word of God.
To accept that another book was the inspired word would be to suggest that God was powerless to preserve His original message to mankind and I simply do not accept that.

No substitute for Jesus ever existed, however there were many 'False Christs' so no surprises there.

 

WOW! I find is astonishing that every single one of you guys in this thread try your best to belittle each others knowledge using petty quotes from various Holy Books which could be found anywhere on the net. You even try to belittle each other by commenting on each others grammar and spelling. What is wrong with you all? Not a single person here is actually using their head, just outlandish quotations which you twist to supplement your own ideas. I believe true reasoning comes from the subjective analysis of ones self, which is then established through scripture, in exactly that order. When scripture comes first without true reasoning this creates havoc as we can see here. I understand that most of you believe that scripture is the word of God made accessible through humans; however do you not believe that God has enabled us humans with an inner ‘innate’ set of reasoning and understanding which is universal? What I am saying here is that we do not really need to delve into scripture ‘first hand’ in order to argue a point of view or to understand God. Scripture should be there for us to compliment what we already know, not to tell us what we should know.
As for the great divide in Islam and Christianity, do you not think that human love and compassion should come above what we are being told in ancient books? Why not look inside our self rather than to books, then we may all see the truth and avoid all this sophistry and illusion.

I urge all Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and all religious groups to set aside these ‘books’ for a moment which we follow so strictly, and to focus on what really matters right now, the union of the human race. Do you not see that the great divide is threatening our very humanity?

 

I see how people get brainwashed these days LoL...If that was true of what you said then thousands of people are getting killed in every country in the name of God like you mentioned. I said every country if that was true not like what is going on in the Middle East right now

 

Quotations from the bible are not "petty", nor are they "outlandish" and as for everyone "twisting" and "belittling", that is only your view - by expressing it you are doing the very same thing that you accuse others of doing!

We all have the power of reasoning and the freewill that God gave us to use it. However, as soon as we give God's Law 2nd place in our lives, using it just to compliment our own knowledge, that is when we are in trouble ... as indeed we are in the world today. Only by listening to God and putting Him first in our lives do we have any chance of true success.

Love and compassion are vital to be approved by God, the world lacks it in great measure, but turning away from God's Word is not the way to learn true love and compassion.

Religion is indeed a great divide, I am the first to agree, however I would say to you as I have said previously, echoing Gandhi's words, that if everyone lived by just the principles of the Sermon on the Mount the earth would be transformed.
In other words true Christianity is the way to heal the divide - by true Christianity I mean complete adherence to Gods words, not just turning to them as an afterthought.
By turning to God's Word and applying its counsel these changes can be made in our own lives.
Exchanges on an Internet forum do not mirror life itself, discussion is good -there will always be some who take the opportunity to abuse others but I do not think that in general contributors to this thread have been abusive in their banter, though some have!
For the record, although I have serious disagreement with Ahmad over his view of Jesus Christ and the bible, I view him as my brother, (we all come from the same original human parents), and would act accordingly toward him in 'real' life.

 

I would firstly like to thank you granddad for taking the time and thought to analyse what I had to say. I would know like to return the favour and clear a few things up that again may have been confused.

What I was trying to express here is that the way in which people in this thread use quotations from holy books is ‘petty’ and ‘outlandish’, belittling each others ideas and thoughts. Not the actual quotations themselves, although it may have sounded that way when I expressed it. And for that I apologise for misrepresenting the information.

Again I don’t think you understand what I am trying to express here. For example I said ‘I understand that most of you believe that scripture is the word of God made accessible through humans; however do you not believe that God has enabled us humans with an inner ‘innate’ set of reasoning’. What I was saying here is, Gods law is made accessible through our inner reason/morality and this inner reason is complimented by scripture. God’s law is therefore put first; scripture is not the ONLY source of Gods word!

Yes I agree completely with you here. The world does lack compassion and love. I believe that the bulk of religious turmoil is largely though the misrepresentation of scripture. If we all put our books aside for a moment, we may all contemplate the true meaning of life as a unity of humans.

Yes Religion is a great DIVIDE of course and this divide has been and still is causing unnecessary havoc over humanity. If people think that killing each other over what they believe in a holy book is right, then they have deluded the true meaning of their religion. I do not for a second denounce the importance of scripture, however I do firmly believe that by establishing that holy books are holy books and humanity is humanity and that humanity is to be set above holy books is of vital importance in today’s society. I do realise this is my opinion and I may have slightly gone off topic here and I am sorry for that. I just hope that you understand where my difficulties lie in setting scripture above innate reasoning set by God.

 

You completely avoided answering my question to you.

Col

 

So someone writes in a book that it will be free from corruption; and magically this is what happens? That's a unique concept. I'll have to write that on my desk or something.

 

How can it be more morally and spiritually corrupted than it is? That is the question I am asking. It uses so many of the laws from both the Torah and the prophets but then changes the meaning just a tad.

pbuh - I finally figured this out "pigs blood upon him" wow, I thought pigs were bad?!?
go figure...

 

LOL...You must be kidding obviously....hehehehe..it means "Peace Be Upon Him"..

Col

 

It is a shame that CTR for forums are low...I will have made money with a Bible v/s Koran forum...

 

i'm afraid i do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

ouch!