It's time America released Bradley Manning and admitted to their war crimes.

WikiLeaks gave the world the ammunition needed to prove without doubt that America is guilty of war crimes in its failed Iraq misadventure. Whoever gave wikileaks the information should be hailed as a hero but instead the person suspected of the crime, Bradley Manning, is thrown in jail and, according to the UNHC, being tortured.

The UN special rapporteur on torture has formally accused the US government of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment towards Bradley Manning, the US soldier who was held in solitary confinement for almost a year on suspicion of being the WikiLeaks source.

Juan Mendez has completed a 14 month investigation into the treatment of Manning since the soldier's arrest at a US military base in May 2010.

He concludes that the US military was at least culpable of cruel and inhumane treatment in keeping Manning locked up alone for 23 hours a day over an 11-month period in conditions that he also found might have constituted torture.

The unarguable ammunition came in the form of an attack on Iraqi civilians which followed almost immediately with another (second) round of killing.

In the second attack, unarmed men are attempting to evacuate a wounded man, an act which since the Geneva Convention of 1864 is protected. Article 12 of the Geneva Convention of 1864 states that:

"...Members of the armed forces and other persons (...) who are wounded or sick, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances. They shall be treated humanely and cared for by the Party to the conflict...Any attempts upon their lives, or violence to their persons, shall be strictly prohibited; in particular, they shall not be murdered or exterminated...".

To kill a person who is already wounded, and to kill a person who is attempting to provide medical aid and assistance, are, according to the Geneva Convention, war crimes.

Why hasn't the US done anything about exponging or jailing the criminals and why is Bradley Manning still in jail?

 

Bradley Manning deserves nothing less or more than to be tried and convicted for his crimes.

 

What Brown said. The guy committed an act of espionage while wearing the uniform. He's lucky he wasnt sent to a firing squad.

 

Good to see you both agree if there's a slight whiff of a crime you should be thrown in jail. Why haven't you both pushed for Bush, Cheney et al to be chucked in jail?

 

Feel free to go back and re-read the hundreds of posts we already have in this forum on the subject. I see no reason we should repost them just cause you got bored.

I will remind you that none of the americans in this forum tries to tell australians in here who they need to let outta prison or put into prison, so perhaps you could learn from our restraint and mind your own business.

 

True, though as a footnote, I would add that I applaud Australia's policy of incarcerating illegal immigrants until such a time as they can be deported.

 

So, he committed espionage but "should be hailed as a hero"...

The mindset of some people is truly amazing...

 

On top of that, the bs about Manning being tortured is laughable horse-shit from people that've never worn a uniform. We had it harder at Quantico's USMC Officer Candidate School than he's had it in Quantico's brig, and we hadn't committed a verifiable act of treason. Bet they've never bedded him down past midnite after a long day and woke him up at 3am for drill.

Ohhhh... they made him sleep naked?! That differs from wearing skivies to bed by one freakin garment. BFD. And he's got a cell to himself instead of an un-airconditioned quonset hut with 50 guys? Oh the horror! Grab a fainting couch, ladies.

Do they have him out on the grinder doing knuckle pushups so his weapon doesn't touch the rocks? Does he come back from hard PT and find his mattress thrown outside the squad-bay and his gear mixed with 5 other idiots that left footlockers unlocked, and all the locks locked together, and have a few minutes to sort it out? Has he been cleaning latrines with a toothbrush?

How many forced marches has he done in full field pack? Is he subjected to white glove inspections where imaginary rust on a weapon gets real chits? Does he know what an irish pennant is, and done KP for having one? Do they leave him in pushup position until his entire outline is visible on the ground in sweat? Is he polishing brass in the platoon CO's office? Does he crawl under barbwire with live rounds flying overhead? Has he been offered Russian Duck for lunch yet? [Hint: Don't say it sounds good, you won't enjoy it.]

Welcome to the military. It aint the Boy Scouts. My son informs me enlisted boots at MCRD San Diego had it a LOT worse than I did. Admittedly, I never had to take off my mask in a room clouded with weapons grade tear gas. Guess they cut slack on us on account of the guys that'd died in training just prior to our arrival.

Still, when I was at Quantico, getting to stay in the rack all day woulda had a name: "Vacation". Any kid at Quantico would happily trade duties with this candy-ass.

 

The point is, just like Ellsberg, Manning proved US war crimes commited by the US. Normal people know he's a hero. Lock up the RIGHT people, you know, the ones who comitted the crime and I promise not to complain about it again.

However, whilst you continue to 'lock up the messenger', whilst hailing the real criminals as the heroes, things can never get back on track.

If you're not going to jail the real criminals then the only real hero should at least be freed.

 

Strange. I haven't heard of any investigations being opened up based on Manning's treason, either within the US, or without. The helicopter video was the best thing he had, and anyone who saw the video Assange didn't edit, saw there were people with rocket launchers and AKs, instead of the gross misrepresentation put out by Assange.

Granted, much of what Manning released was damaging to the US reputation. Internal memos reflecting opinions of US leaders on situations, abroad. Private conversations where the words of foreign diplomats were opened up for all to hear. Manning's treason put real doubt into the minds of our allies as to whether or not we could keep a secret.

Manning got his licks in against the US, and now hes going to pay the price.

 

It's getting there...and will continue.

"In the second attack, unarmed men are attempting to evacuate a wounded man, an act which since the Geneva Convention of 1864 is protected. Article 12 of the Geneva Convention of 1864 states that:

"...Members of the armed forces and other persons (...) who are wounded or sick, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances. They shall be treated humanely and cared for by the Party to the conflict...Any attempts upon their lives, or violence to their persons, shall be strictly prohibited; in particular, they shall not be murdered or exterminated...".

To kill a person who is already wounded, and to kill a person who is attempting to provide medical aid and assistance, are, according to the Geneva Convention, war crimes."

 

Terrific! Perhaps you should provide your legal advice to the folks in Geneva who would open up such an investigation/trial. They have had all of Manning's material for years now and have done nothing. Perhaps they are just lazy. Perhaps they can't recognize a war crime when they see one and need your expert legal advice. Or, perhaps you are just seeing what you want to see.

 

Both you and I know this will take years to get to the criminals. It's going to happen. America needs to decide whether it wants to be in deep deep shit or just deep shit I guess.

 

Anyone with a lick of common sense knows that the former President is not going to be charged with any crime. As for whether you think, as you say, America is "in deep deep shit or just deep shit" - do you really think anyone but you cares?

I could not be less concerned about your opinion on this. You throw your uninformed opinion around here like somebody gives a damn. There are actually people who can make some decent arguments supporting your positions - you just aren't one of them.

 

You sure about that? Tell that to any Libyan, Iraqi, & Syrian. They might not believe you.

Or are you saying America can take out other leaders but it not susceptible to it's own leaders?

Things have changed as the left gains back the upper hand.

 

I had to reread about Manning to get a sense of this and went to a wikipedia listing under his name. One thing is that his history was as one very troubled guy. The military recognized this, but also had a shortage of people with his "expertise" and so sent him to Iraq, even as there were doubts about his suitability.

Ultimately he divulged secrets he shouldn't have done. For that he is being charged, appropriately so in my opinion.

I was not a fan of the war in Iraq. I think Bush and Cheney, and their team bullsh1tted the US to get that war they wanted, mishandled it, ran it terribly, left it a mess, blew out a dictator, left a country in shreds, tried to help create a democracy...and the current result is a nation that is frankly helping Iran. Couldn't ask for a worse current result, IMHO.

With all that there were all the horrors of war, but that doesn't make the actual combat, war crimes. Meanwhile I believe there are nations out there now that if Bush or Cheney landed on their soil they would prosecute them, for the reasons Bushranger promotes. The simple fact is that neither Cheney or Bush are landing on any of those soils. Moot point.

But regardless of feelings on Iraq, right or wrong, I'd prosecute Manning. He did stuff he never should have done. He was a disturbed guy, that committed a crime.

Sometimes, possibly most of the time, there are fine lines between a whistle blower and a criminal, and it may all be in the eyes of the viewer and sometimes there are close calls on a decision. Retrospect and Monday morning quarterbacking suggests the guy never should have gone overseas. Now the guy should pay the price for releasing all that information.

 

Yes, I am sure. This is not a left/right issue. The fact that you compare our situation in America to that of decades long dictatorships again proclaims your ignorance for everyone to see.

 

You don't need to believe me, just the Geneva Convention. And, as stated above, that IS a war crime.

Not according to "me", but according to the Geneva Convention.

Manning (allegedly) exposed US war crimes, just as any whistleblower should. Simple really.

The subversion of his heroic act is astonishing.

 

Sure, like I haven't got every other thing we've discussed correct, this will be the same.

Comparing taking out leaders is not being ignorant. Bush and his crew are criminals and some hero exposed them as the criminals they are. Prosecutions are coming.

 

The video, even if it did show a war crime, does not implicate Bush personally in any way. So that just shows how off base you thinking is. You aren't suggesting that he personally directed a helicopter to shoot civilians are you? (I have to ask because I am always surprised by people's stupidity) I don't know what you mean by "prosecutions" but no serious nation or international body will ever do it. Maybe some 3rd world shithole might put forth some meaningless show prosecution that has no merit or threat but aside from that kind of joke there will be no prosecution of Bush.

As for the first part, I can't recall participating in any discussion with you where you ended up articulating a correct analysis of a situation.