Israel's rising right wing

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by ly2, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #121
    Some people just don't seem interested in peace:

    "Soon Islam will become the dominating force in the world, occupying first place in the number of followers amongst all other religions...We don't shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to rule the world" - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran

    "Peace initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement." - Hamas Charter 1987, Article 13

    "Believers (Muslims), take neither Jews nor Christians to be your friends: they are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number, and God does not guide (those Jewish and Christian) wrong-doers." - The Quran, Sura 5:51

    "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" - Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood

    "Sons of Islam everywhere, the jihad is a duty - to establish the rule of Allah on earth and to liberate your countries and yourselves from America's domination and its Zionist allies, it is your battle - either victory or martyrdom." - Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Hamas co-founder and spiritual leader
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  2. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #122
    Fine and dandy, just don't be surprised when someone only waits a month before they start attacking again. Shoot, we may even get a time of 6 months before they send in the "s-bombers" again.

    Peace would be great, but I would tell Israel to be more on guard than ever before. Keep building up a shield of bomb-sniffing dogs, security checks and such. Don't let the UN dictate what ways you can defend yourself.
     
    debunked, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  3. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #123
    these quotes are all against peace.
    so are you saying that you want to cooperate with them to achive they goal or are you going to support dr rice and pray for peace.
     
    pizzaman, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  4. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #124
    As an Atheist, I'm not likely to pray for anything. :rolleyes:

    As a realist, I think it's important to remember who we are dealing with here.

    These people would prefer to keep the wars going for eternity in order to preserve their own social standings or in order to appease their imaginary gods.

    It's not realistic to pet a rabid dog and try to make friends.
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  5. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #125
    i agree that israel should do every thing possible to protect herself and more and i think should ask for at least 60 percent approval by palestanians

    i think i read somewhere that original idea for the barrier wall was so israel can afford to take a chance and make peace and came from the doves.i think it has worked. do you know the number of Israeli casualties caused by terrorists in the past years so we can see if there is a pattern.
     
    pizzaman, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  6. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #126
    so can you finally support israel in peace or only in war
    so do you see your picture in the mirror or not.
     
    pizzaman, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  7. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #127
    The Palestinians are almost irrelevant. They are such a small percentage of Muslims that they don't really count in the big picture.

    It would be like the Allies in WWII making a peace agreement with Thüringen.

    I don't really support "Israel" as much as I support concepts like "freedom", "liberty", and "personal choice."

    Israel just happens to approximate my values much more closely than the people who are attempting to annihilate them do.

    Not, mind you, that I believe that all Muslims are rabid dogs with the brains locked in an attack pattern -- but we do need to be very careful who we are dealing with. Making peace with the peaceful Muslims (the majority) may require killing off the minority of Muslims who refuse to make peace.
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  8. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #128
    maybe not to you but if you want to be realistic it does matter to muslems around the world. one wonders are you trying to isolate the extremists or want to give them propaganda tool
    again the point is isolating the extremists and as israel make peace with countries the extremists get isolated
    and when you get the young to work to make the apartments we talked about maybe they start to be less violent. let them get married and have children get them involve in life.
    then there is syria ,and israel must decide what she wants to do.
    same thing over that little peace of land with lebenon
    i think that is all the outstanding issues.
     
    pizzaman, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  9. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #129
    I don't think any of those are even mildly related to the real issues.
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  10. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #130
    if the aim is to stop hostility from muslems toward other people this will go a long way in isolating the violent people. do a win lose analysis of all players. if you know who your enemy is then the best thing to do is to find out how he thinks and what he wants. closing ones eye and repeating your self is not smart.if not then you have to find out who your enemy is
    people are the ultimate dynamic machine why don't you stop being so static
     
    pizzaman, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  11. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #131
    Let's try your "peace offerings" against any of these stated issues:

    "Soon Islam will become the dominating force in the world, occupying first place in the number of followers amongst all other religions...We don't shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to rule the world" - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran

    "Peace initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement." - Hamas Charter 1987, Article 13

    "Believers (Muslims), take neither Jews nor Christians to be your friends: they are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number, and God does not guide (those Jewish and Christian) wrong-doers." - The Quran, Sura 5:51

    "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" - Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood

    "Sons of Islam everywhere, the jihad is a duty - to establish the rule of Allah on earth and to liberate your countries and yourselves from America's domination and its Zionist allies, it is your battle - either victory or martyrdom." - Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Hamas co-founder and spiritual leader​

    Please tell me how giving up Israeli territory will help each of these issues.

    The one it will help is Hassan al-Banna's issue with the existence of Israel. Removing Israel's security perimeter certainly does make it easier to "obliterate" Israel. But is that the peace you're looking for?

    In the same way, it also assists Sheikh Ahmed Yassin's issue of establishing the rule of Allah on earth. That's a positive, I guess?

    These are the core issues -- not the Arabs of Palestine who have been abandoned my their brethren. If any other Arab nation cared about them, they would have welcomed them with open arms decades ago.

    Hell, they could just give them aid. Instead, they build ski slopes in the desert! The only aid the Palestinian Arabs get from their Arab brothers is cheap surplus Soviet rocket launchers. Feel the love.
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  12. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #132
    i thought that you already posted that and i made my comment and israel can sugest good choices
    a trivia do you know that Sheikh Ahmed Yassin was supported by israel at the beginning. of hamas.
     
    pizzaman, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  13. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #133
    Israel can suggest all of the "good choices" it wants. You and I can do the same. I suggest ice cream for everyone!

    But... the only real suggestions that are going to bring peace with these guys are complete surrender -or- killing them and making peace among those who are still living.
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  14. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #134
    i don't think israel wants to do either one
    don't you see you have no logic just feelings.
     
    pizzaman, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  15. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #135
    I have yet to talk to a single Israeli who didn't want peace.
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  16. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #136
    Actually he is giving you logic and you are going by feelings.
     
    debunked, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  17. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #137
    well only time will tell
     
    pizzaman, Oct 18, 2007 IP
  18. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #138
    pizzaman, Oct 19, 2007 IP
  19. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #139
    Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice. And ... moderation in the pursuit of Justice is no virtue. --Barry Goldwater
     
    Will.Spencer, Oct 22, 2007 IP
  20. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #140
    majority of people in israel want peace

    i reject all extreemists values by all extreemists person in opposition to peace between israel and arab neighbors
     
    pizzaman, Oct 22, 2007 IP