Israel's economy leaving Palestinians far behind

Anyway, the Yom Kippur war wasn't far away from beeing loosed for Israel. Israel was totally taken by surprice when they attacked on the holiest day in the jewish calender. Israel got some airlifts from US. However, that was after the arabs received an airlift from the Soviets.

 

Latehorn, you may not have read the entire thread, or you just find it convenient to ignore what doesn't square with your preconceived notion.

I provided 3 modern day, real-world examples, among many, where there exists:

in answer to:

To which I posted what I feel to be relevant, modern examples:

And as I said, as much as Gtech feels he has made his point, and that it has been unanswered, I feel I have repeatedly answered the questions Gtech raised - but when I did answer, he said the answer was not an answer to a question he has asked. I simply feel that he ignores anything that points to possibilities outside his perspective, and for that, I feel sorry for him - sincerely. I also said I'm sure he believes the same of me - that I am obtuse, as he said, or that I hate Bush, as he said, or hate someone, and this is why I have the interpretations of history that I do. That is his response.

So, if you wish to believe I argue in order to "win," that I have "loosed." [sic], then that is your choice.

I don't seek to "win" anything. I seek the truth. In my mind, no state on earth has a "right to exist." Such a view is one born only very recently, in modern times, imbuing our "ownership" of the parcels of land we call home with some primordial "right." I believe it is a construct, this idea of "right," and that is all. A useful one, no doubt, but until we acknowledge that it is a construct, we may never see the end to the times of troubles we are only now starting to truly see. The state's existence was born in blood, and all that prevents its collapse is some combination of blood, or blood by other means, to turn Clausewitz on his ear.

I am reminded of something I saw recently in Spielberg's Film, "Munich": "Your tribe has suffered." I love the Jewish people for what they have contributed to world culture, and honor them (and mourn with them) for what they have endured throughout the centuries. I support the Israeli people. I also believe that until we seek to see the sufferings of those kids wearing green death-bands, and take responsibility for how we in the States have helped create that suffering, we will never see the end to this cycle of pain.

Paul

 

After page 3 the posts got too deep and interesting and I've got work to do today .

Good convo though. Maybe they'll make this thread into a book some day.

 

Oh, the shades of grey that serve to point to possibilities that something is, or is not. Why just last week I was talking to my hair stylist about East Timor's "right to exist" and how the explosive coverage of it on CNN was sparking world wide debate!

 

Gtech, was your stylist East Timorese?

Again - it seems you aren't happy with the examples I provided, though you indicated:

I'm a pretty lousy skeet shooter - moving targets aren't my forte. If you would like to pin down the words, dates of relevant issue, areas of geographic limit, people, and any others you can think of, I'll quit answering these moving target-questions.

You might want to start with CNN, the source you quote, as a quick glance shows 1669 CNN stories on the East Timor problem:

Cnn - on East Timor.

Here's a snippet: "...The current violence resembles East Timor's upheaval in 1999 when its vote for independepence from Indonesia in a referendum sparked widespread mayhem by militias linked to the Indonesian military. East Timor declared itself independent in 2002."

Brink of Civil War

Now, I may be wrong, but somebody might be questioning the independent state's right to exist. But then...

And this illustrates something of what I have been trying to say, Gtech (and others): if we can't open our mind to possibilities outside our mindset, we can't learn.

 

You ought to look on the web. Just using "east timor" as the keyword, you can find a lot more. But that wasn't really the point, was it?

Oh, the golden gem...East Timor's "right to exist" is questioned by declaring itself independent.

I guess next, "I can't believe it's not butter" might very well mean "I can't believe it's not crisco."

We should learn what is, is. "Right to exist" is a phrase that is used in relation to Israel, and I'm quite comfortable with the stats I used to make that point. No shades of grey were needed, no "opening your mind to different possibilities" needed. Just simple facts, backed up with simple data for simple minded folks that know when someone's blowing smoke up their skirt

 

How could US be responsibel for that? Terrorism in palestine has a history of more than 100 years, and by that time, US didn't have an influense there. US have helped Israel a little bit when it turned out that Soviet helped the arabs. But US has more or less helped the palestinians to get a jewish-free land in Gaza, that increased the number of people wearing those green bands. So I suppose that you mean US should take responsibillity for how they have created sufferings by suggesting Israel to deport all settlers from Gaza. However, the intention was good.

 

That's just the point. They are not. The US is no more responsible for the ignorance of this Islamic lunacy than they are for the anti-semitsism that brings these statements on in the first place. The simple fact is, many people, (in the US - as well as abroad) ---- Muslims and Christians alike hate Jews. It is this hatred of Jews that spawns all this bitching and moaning about Israel, and the US. Whether we support Israel or not, whether Palistinkyens have a state or not, in the end, the hatred will always remain a constant. Some people just don't like Jews. They may try to convince you that that is not the case, and that they merely disagree with their claim to what was, is and always has been their land.

Some people just don't like Jews. You can no more reason with these people than you can with racists.

 

More reasoned discourse - hatred? Palistinkyiens? The problem here is one of arguing with zealots - at some point, they'll call "god said, I believe it, and there it is," so it is really impossible to continue. Latehorn - this is the company you keep.

May Israel prosper and live in peace and security. May Palestinian children come to know they have something besides death, and murder, to live for.

 

Apparently there is no reasoned discourse or outrage for the hatred of Jews for some.

May parents of palestinian children stop breeding them to intentionally produce killers. And may dhimmi's wake up and see the true intolerance.

 

We agree. Apparently there is no reasoned discourse or outrage for the hatred of Jews for some. May parents of palestinian children stop breeding them to intentionally produce killers. And may dhimmi's wake up and see the true intolerance of their condition.

When my mother lay dying, she was blind and comatose. Her final hours were spent next to a maternity ward. A child cried in the neighboring room and she rose up for a second or two, staring blankly out, and from somewhere deep in her mind and body, she tried to go to the sound of that child crying. She then sank back into her bed and died a couple of hours later.

I believe all mothers are this way. I think it is at this point engineered into our genetic makeup as a species.

For a mother of these bombers to support such an act, a vile thing - the murder of innocents, the self-destruction of one's child - cries out, to me, a desperation beyond words, ideology, religion. But it won't go away by quoting dogma or turning their tribe into animals - the animals of Mia's worldview, "Palestinkyiens."

 

And yet when we see them in interviews (I've seen a number on Discovery and news articles), the "desperation" emotion is lacking while "honor, pride and happiness" are extolled because their child is going to "paradise."

 

As Yo-Yo mentioned before, there is a reason. However, that reason can impossible be the history of Israels first days and how Israel have been treating palestinians. There was actually much more anti-jewish terrorism in the region when palestine existed as a british mandate. Now when Palestine are supposed to get their own land, the terrorist movements are on the rise once again.

Finding reasons are to many people difficoult, because there are actually no sane reasons to chose between. The reason of most importance is however, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion A russian book about the zionistic egocentric jewish maffia that was supossed to take over the world like the snake take over a rat. That book was probably one of the first main reasons to the implementation of fears in the palestinians, when jews immigrated to their promissed land.

 

That's because it is more important to see the Israels gone, and without land, than it is to have land themselves.

 

That is very similar to Iran nuking Israel to kill the Jews for the Palistinian cause, yet killing the palistinians would be no big deal, but even a bonus for them

 

How true. These guys wouldn't even be happy if there were no Jews in the first place. They would just go on fighting over other desert heaps of crap in the area. Islam at war with Islam. Eventually they will kill each other and you might just find World Peace is not that hard to achieve.
The only trouble is, how many innocents will they kill in the interm.

 

A big difference between the east and the west is that the east is prepared to offer a bit of themselfs for reaching goals more than the west is willing to do. This gives the east a strength over the west that is unequal and is a good reason why the west must allways be way ahead of them.

However this factor in combination with the fanatical mess in Palestine creates negative action. That's why it's so important to stop the spread of the book I posted here before. Especially in Palestine and the Islamic world. Making a debunker site about this book would be a very wise thing to do.

 

You know how they call the Palestinians in Egypt "Black Jews", they hate the Palestinians almost as much as the Jews. All they want is to keep Israel and the Palestinians fighting until non is left. At the end they want both dead and Jerusalem for themselves.

 

Interesting.. do you have any online sources about that?

 

No, that's street talk by the common folk that basically represents the population general opinion and views. I don't think you find it in any essays.