Israel to compensate family of British filmmaker killed by IDF

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by iggysick, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. ziya

    ziya Well-Known Member

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    #21
    The shooting of a British film maker in Gaza was "cold-blooded murder", a security expert has told an inquest.
    James Miller, 34, from Devon, was shot by a soldier from the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) while making a film in a Palestinian refugee camp in 2003.
    An Israeli investigation in April 2005 cleared a soldier of misusing firearms.
    At St Pancras Coroner's Court in London, former weapons inspector Chris Cobb-Smith said there was no way the soldier fired by accident.
    A reporters' statement said Mr Miller was also under a white flag.

    "This was calculated and cold-blooded murder, without a shadow of a doubt," Mr Cobb-Smith told the inquest.
    "These shots were not fired by a soldier who was frightened, not fired by a soldier facing incoming fire - these were slow, deliberate, calculated and aimed shots."
    The 10-member inquest jury heard how Mr Miller had been wearing a helmet and flak jacket with the letters TV written in bright fluorescent tape as he approached the soldiers in Rafah at about 2300 on 2 May 2003.
    He was holding a torch which shone on a large white flag being held by his interpreter.
    A shot was fired, followed by a second fatal shot 12 to 13 seconds later. Several more shots were fired at seven to 12 second intervals, hitting the Palestinian house, from which the TV crew had emerged.
    Weapon records
    Mr Cobb-Smith said this illustrated that the shots were deliberate.
    He said that although it was night-time, the TV crew would have been back-lit by lights from the house from which they emerged.
    The Israeli soldiers would also have had night vision equipment on their armoured personnel carrier (APC) which would have made it obvious that the cameraman, reporter and interpreter were unarmed and presented no threat.
    The security expert was also critical of the Israeli army as it was unable to provide a record of soldiers' weapons and any ammunition they may have discharged.
    No help
    The inquest also heard evidence from reporter Saira Shah, who was standing next to Mr Miller when he was shot.
    In a witness statement read out by coroner Dr Andrew Reid, the inquest heard that she and Mr Miller, accompanied by their interpreter Abdul Rahman Abdullah, slowly approached the IDF soldiers with their white flag held high.
    All three froze after the first shot and then dropped to the ground when the second shot rang out, but by this time Mr Miller had been seriously wounded.
    As they struggled to move his body, the Israeli soldiers in their APC inched forward and eventually threw down a stretcher, the court heard.
    "The Israeli soldiers watched us fumbling to remove James's body armour and get him back on to the stretcher but still would not help us," Ms Shah said.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/4876176.stm
     
    ziya, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  2. imad

    imad Peon

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    #22
    there was a documentary by BBC which proved that it was murder, not only the murder of James Miller but also Rachel Corrie who was an American peace activist, and Tom Hurndall who was British photographer, the documentary name was "when killing is Easy", it was broadcasted on 2nd November, 2003

    source
     
    imad, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  3. killafawk

    killafawk Active Member

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    #23
    theres actually a video on this. i think it was the same thing your talking about. basically it shows the guys set up a camera and there filming this tank and you see the tank shoot a round and like 3 seconds later the camera blows up.

    They were in a humvee type vehicle and it had "TV" all over it. Honestly i don't think it was a mistake... I think they were trying to keep them from filming something.\


    heres the video...

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=092_1208455249
     
    killafawk, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  4. gauharjk

    gauharjk Notable Member

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    #24
    I believe you are talking about the latest killing which happened last week, where a Reuters Cameraman was killed by israeli Tank Shell, and he happened to record his own death.
     
    gauharjk, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  5. killafawk

    killafawk Active Member

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    #25
    ah so this is something different? oh well if anyones interested in seeing that video its on above link.
     
    killafawk, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  6. JamesColin

    JamesColin Prominent Member

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    #26
    I don't like the creation of israel state, there shouldn't be a jewish country in the middle of muslims countries, that is nonsense. Really bad choice of land!

    But it makes for some great videos!
     
    JamesColin, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  7. Ohad

    Ohad Guest

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    #27
    actually, we were here a lot before the Muslims.
     
    Ohad, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  8. JamesColin

    JamesColin Prominent Member

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    #28
    Things change, you've got to move on. Plus the creation of the state of israel dates back for how long? That's the mistake. But it doesn't matter I like urban warfare videos and beheadings :)
     
    JamesColin, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  9. Ohad

    Ohad Guest

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    #29
    so things change again and here we are in the land of our fathers again.
     
    Ohad, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  10. JamesColin

    JamesColin Prominent Member

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    #30
    Yes and I bet you're enjoying it. Good weather and nice beaches. Pity about the bad neighborhood :)
     
    JamesColin, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  11. Lexiseek

    Lexiseek Banned

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    #31
    People forget their history. Do you think it was the "Palestinians" who named Jerusalem?
     
    Lexiseek, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  12. iggysick

    iggysick Guest

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    #32
    That coming from a guy whos nation was founded on genocide commited upon rightful owners of land you occuppy right now sounds like a bad joke. "Americans"... :rolleyes:
    People forget their history indeed.
     
    iggysick, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  13. killafawk

    killafawk Active Member

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    #33

    great point.
     
    killafawk, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  14. sweetsara

    sweetsara Peon

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    #34
    No, because Hamas dosen't kill film makers. By the way, Wisdom I think you should re evaluate your position on this, because it isn't the first time Israel have killed journalists, the inquest came to the conclusion it was a cold blooded murder, so, think what you will of that, believe the courts conclusion or Israel. They have killed UN peacekeepers, film makers, journalists, and more.

    Yet Hamas recently found free'd kidnapped bbc journalist Alan Johnson in Gaza and returned him home safely ;) - Would terrorists do that?
     
    sweetsara, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  15. iggysick

    iggysick Guest

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    #35
    On my way to work I realised that I totally forgot of those who got killed by bombs or land mines or anti tank mines so you're right and I was wrong: there's a lot of ways for journalists got killed in war zones. What I ment to say is that when journalists got killed with snipers or from close range there's big chance that soldier who done that knew whos he shooting.

    We would never knew what really happened there. I mean what was the real reason why he was murdered. But as you can see from story line first thing that Israel did was to lie that he got killed in change of fire with their enemies and second was that he was killed by Palestinians.
    I can only express my opinion on cases like this one. Sometimes I think that they do things like this simply because they can. In any other democratic country on planet earth there would be proper investigation and those who were reponsible for murder would end up in jail but that's not the case in Israel.
    This story brings another question in mind: what do you think how much innocent people get murdered by IOF because "teririst were hiding behind them"? I can tell you a lot of stories from war in my country and from all of them you may draw one conclusion: a soldier in a war will do what ever his country allows him to do. Defending soldiers after they murder innocent people gives them green card to do that again because in their eyes it is allowed to do.
     
    iggysick, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  16. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #36
    IMHO in any war or military conflict, civilians are the victims. With regards to the claims of the pushing of responsibilities, I guess every country involved in armed conflicts are guilty as much as the Israelis, not defending them, but it is human nature to push the blame away from themselves. And not saying that they are right either, democracy or dictatorships, all of them will try to shield their own men.

     
    wisdomtool, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  17. iggysick

    iggysick Guest

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    #37
    Well yeah, there can't be wars without innocent people got killed or hurt but the problem I see here is commiting a war crimes and instead of getting punished for it they get protected. Defending yourself or your country doesn't give you a right to commit war crimes.
    It's hard to face what some of your own did during the war but we try as much as we can and it will take years that whole nation will have guts to say: yes, some of our guys are not war heroes, they are war criminals.
    Take a look at one of them: Mirko Norac
    A former general in our army serving a time in jail and there's another trial going on right now and he will probably get another time in jail.
    I would like to see something like that in Israel. Than I would say yeah, they are democratic country but all this time I am reading about that conflict there's always "lenghty investigation" by Israel which ends up with droping charges because of "insuficient evidence"...
     
    iggysick, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  18. imad

    imad Peon

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    #38
    This is partly true, civilians fall in wars, but when they are being attacked on purpose it is a war crime, both Hamas and Israel are guilty in this, the difference is that Hamas says its in reply to the Israeli attacks against civilians, not defending them either, its wrong, but it came after long years in which attacking civilians, journalists, politicians, and peace activists was a policy for Israel.

    Besides, Hamas claim the responsibility for each attack they do inside the green line, while Israel try to invent stories or throw the blame on Palestinians, as a result of the Palestinian pressure, Hamas stopped attacks that target civilian places like buses and cafes, in the other side the world turn a blind eye on Israel and its attacks against civilians, and always accept the Israeli story and refuse any kind of international investigation like what happened in Jenin.
     
    imad, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  19. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #39
    Both sides are wrong, claiming responsibilities for such killings or inventing excuses for such killings does not make them less guilty IMHO.

     
    wisdomtool, Apr 22, 2008 IP
  20. imad

    imad Peon

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    #40
    agreed, so both should be treated same way.
     
    imad, Apr 22, 2008 IP