Israel blows up bus full of Jews in Bulgaria

As I thought, you clearly don't read what is written, otherwise you would know that I'm not Muslim, I am a Welshman and an atheist. Do try to keep up with what people are saying in their posts.

 

They are your brethren in that, like them, you think Jews and Israel are solely to blame and hold the Palestinians out as blameless victims in everything that happens.

If you think you can attribute qualities to other posters and group them, then is is equally fair to have it done to you.

 

Are you trying to say that Plaestinian are not solely to blame? I will be interested to know what do you blame Israel for if anything at all.

 

No I do not! See, you're doing it again...reading things that are not there. SOME Palestinians do despicable things against Israelis and SOME Israelis do despicable things against Palestinians. Neither side is faultless. All I'm saying and all I have EVER said is that I sympathise with the cause of the Palestinians and I understand their frustration.

 

AMEN to all of this!

 

ALLAHluyah !

 

Yes, of course that is what we are paying them for. Not giving supporting them so they can defend themselves against the likes of Iran, or Egypt or Jordan or Syria all of whom have ganged together to attack Israel. You just claim that Americans are doing it to help Israel commit atrocities. Absurd on its face.

So, let me get this straight. You are bitching again and again about people claiming you are anti Israel and anti Jewish but you get to call other people rabid Zionists just because we think Israel has a right to defend itself?

Nice, adoption of his post. This coming from the same guy who whines about his posts being misinterpreted. So you have no problem accusing me of treason, but don't want people ascribing positions to you. What a fucking joke.

Again, picking up on the most absurd posts of others and then trying to spin my answers to make me into something else. Ironically the very thing you complain others do to you.

Oh, geez, you words are being misrepresented. Well, at least you are doing that yourself. Hypocrite.

This one is a gem. While complaining about being people interpreting your words you call others Zionists when nobody in the threads says they are a Zionists or has shown that that is what they believe. Hypocrisy runs rampant though your posts.

Right, so everything you say is to be taken at face value. Even though all you do in posts, not just dealing with Palestine, is defend Muslims and attack Israel and Jews. But you want the right to call into question my loyalty to my country, label me a Zionists. Again, your hypocrisy is off the charts.

Classic. You get to accuse everyone else but whine and bitch when people take your words and apply a tiny bit of logic to expose your transparent views. You may very well not be a Muslim, but you sure argue like one on these forums.

 

You've got it wrong pal. When A (Israel) attacks B (Palestine) and B fights back then A can't claim to be 'defending itself'....because A is the original aggressor....got it?

They support the illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel. That's what Zionists do.

 

When Hamas, by its own words, seeks to destroy Israel and lobs rockets into Israel, then it is self defense when Israel tries to stop them. If you blindly refuse to acknowledge that there are countries in the middle east that seek to harm Israel, even when the elected leaders of some countries openly call for Israel to be destroyed, and thus you wrongly think the only reason for US support is to attack poor civilian Palestinians, then it is you who doesn't get it.

Since I been alive the country of Israel has existed. It has been attacked several times. I believe that Israel has a right to defend its state, as I believe any state does. Contrary to your views, as I understand International law, Israel is legally occupying some Palestinian land (Actually, it is probably better stated that they are occupying Jordanian or Egyptian land, but that is just another part of the story). I do not think they should just take it all and do not consider myself a Zionist.

 

Not necessarily! If you break into someone's house and illegally squat there you shouldn't be surprised when the rightful owner of the house tries to get you out...and if you use force to prevent the owner from removing you from his property...that is not "self-defence".

...and you don't think that Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine has anything to do with these countries allegedly wanting to see Israel destroyed?

Now see, if Israel were being attack inside it's own legal borders then I would be behind them 100%..but they aren't. They are 'squatting' on someone else's land and then complaining because the owner is annoyed about it.

...and so do I - 100%. The problem is that what Israel is defending doesn't belong to them! It's not theirs to defend.

Perhaps you do but Israel is not complying with international law and that's what all the fuss is about. If Israel WERE complying with international law then believe me, I'd be behind them. If they complied with the UN resolutions against them and withdrew from the occupied territories and Palestine STILL attacked them, then I would be standing with you, shoulder to shoulder, in condemning Palestine.

Another way in which Israel is condemned is by its use of what it terms as 'retaliation'. International law is quite specific that a country may defend itself but only to the degree of force used to attack it and only to an extent that will repel the attack. What does that mean in reality? It means that if your neighbour kicks a football over your fence and knocks the heads of some of your flowers, you are not justified in taking revenge by slaughtering his family and burning his house down. To put that in the context of what we are talking about. If Palestine lobs a $20 home-made rocket at Israel that only does minor damage, Israel is not justified in firing $1,000,000 worth of high-tec, laser guided missiles back at Palestine that kill 500 people.

Nobody is denying Israel's right to defend itself from attack. The problem is, you can't steal something and then when you get into a fight with the owner, claim that you are 'defending' what you have stolen. The world doesn't work like that. If you came home from work and found a bunch of yobs occupying your house and firing guns at you to prevent you from getting in, would you consider them to be acting in 'self-defence'?

 

Right! So attacks by Hamas are JUSTIFIED!!!

But, if you are ever accused of justifying the acts terror Hamas uses with impunity, you would NEVER try and justify such a thing! In fact you stand firmly in opposition to the use of terror tactics by anyone!

Apparently, you are the only one who doesn't sense the paradox in your own position on this issue.

LoL. You must be as oblivious to the history leading up to 1967, or that leading up to 1948, as you are to the overtly anti-semetic, wipe Israel from the map posts of the people who share your position on this issue on this very forum. You are either clueless, or willfully ignorant. Perhaps you are clever and simply anti-semetic.

 

No it's not. Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land. 99% of all countries in the world acknowledge this. So you can't cry when the owners of the land attack you.

Jordan was illegally occupying Palestinian land from 1948 to 1967. The Palestinians do not want their land occupied by Israel, Jordan or any other country in the world. They want to be free.

The Jews are writing a bad history for themselves. Instead of peacefully settling somewhere in the world, they had to go and steal another peoples land as soon as they survived the holocaust. It's all a bit strange.

 

Comic how you don't need a shred of evidence to back any claim. Land at the north pole, 99% of countries agreeing the occupation is illegal, it is all true because you say it is true. I think they have medicine for that condition, though I'm not sure life on a lithium drip would be that much better for you.

And yet, even during the Jordanian occupation, the terrorism and violence was directed at Israel, not at the "occupiers". Oh sure, a Palestinian assassinated the Jordanian Emir in 1951, apparently based on rumors that he was discussing peace with Israel, but again, hard to call that opposition to the occupation.

Interesting reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank_and_East_Jerusalem

I find it difficult to understand how any person with an understanding of personal responsibility does not find the Palestinians largely responsible for their own fate.

 

It's public information.

The United Nations Security Council,[SUP][75][/SUP] the United Nations General Assembly,[SUP][14][/SUP] the United States,[SUP][76][/SUP] the EU,[SUP][77][/SUP] the International Court of Justice,[SUP][78][/SUP] and theInternational Committee of the Red Cross[SUP][15][/SUP] refer to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as Palestinian territory occupied by Israel. General Assembly resolution 58/292 (17 May 2004) affirmed that the Palestinian people have the right to sovereignty over the area.[SUP][79]
[/SUP]
The Israel is of-course citing some crap from the bible and claiming to own the West Bank.

The Palestinians also opposed to Jordans illegal occupation. They wanted their own state. In 1970 the PLO was expelled from Jordan.

They are not responsible for the wrongdoings of the Jews. The conflict in the Middle East has its roots in Judaism and Zionism.

 

What happened did the Palestinians fire any rockets to Jordan ? Strap bombs to children and sent to Jordan ?

 

Yes, we can all agree to refer to Gaza, the West Bank, and even East Jerusalem as occupied territory. Israel took that step when it was attacked from those areas and will hold them until they can be put in hands of people who are not trying to kill them. Every other nation (Russia, China, the US) would have simply obliterated their opposition.

What happened when Israel tried to step back and give Gaza fully to the Palestinians? They were consistently attacked from within those borders requiring Israel to once again invade and clean it of its attack weapons and attackers.

So what? It is a non-binding resolution which means it has no legal import or effect whatsoever. If the General Assembly were to say Palestinians have no right to the land would you care what they said? Of course not.

 

Then Israel (or any other country that does not want to abide by the decisions of the UN) should be expelled from the UN. You can't join a club and then claim that you are exempt from the rules of the club. I'm sure that if there was some UN decision taken that was beneficial to Israeli interests then they (and you) wouldn't be screaming that UN decisions are non-binding and irrelevant then huh? Oh yes...you'd want to be part of the club then wouldn't you?

 

I don't know how much you understand about the UN. It is not me, it is the UN's own rules that make General Assembly resolutions non-binding. Before you suggest Israel "should be expelled from the UN" for treating them as non-binding it would behoove you to understand how the UN works. No General Assembly resolution is binding on ANY country. It has nothing to do with me or Israel.

 

This is the part where you expect me and everyone else reading this thread to go digging through your links to find proof to back your claim? Again, your claim, for the record is:

a) The occupation is illegal and
b) 99% of all countries in the world acknowledge this.

No. I wont go digging through your links. Back up your own claim by quoting from your links to prove those two points, and link your quotes back to their source. I won't hold my breath.

Apparently, expulsion of Jordan wasn't anywhere near as important as the destruction of Israel, even mid Jordanian occupation (when they all still had Jordanian citizenship). Of course I'm repeating myself here because you want to nuance the truth away. Tough luck.

Good job equating Zionism to Judiasm again. This is where I point out the major Abrahamic religion you left out, the apostasy of which is actually at the root cause of the problems.

 

Irony much!