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Israel blows up bus full of Jews in Bulgaria

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Mikaël2, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

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    #241
    I'm neither but I sided with the lesser evil.


    Don't give a chit about their books !
    When you send a plane into a building with the intention of hurting people and killing them REGULAR people choose sides.
    That simple !
     
    popotalk, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  2. BRUm

    BRUm Well-Known Member

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    #242
    Popo, I'll talk about their books all day. There are countless posts on DP about the evils of qur'an so I will balance it, don't act like I've addressed a non-issue. Most religious texts have hate and prejudice.

    Islamists killed many on 9/11, Jews killed many British pre-Israel. No one side is any better.

    Ok so when are you guys going to invade Pakistan and Saudi Arabia? You know, the countries that ACTUALLY carried out the 9/11 attacks? You do know that your great ally the Saudis are the centre of the world's Wahhabism, right?

    So then why are you condemning the tactics of the Islamic fighters when you say yourself that "all is fair in war"?

    In my opinion the Islamic countries and fighters are primitive. The Israeli's are much more clever and devious. They entangle the West into their conflicts which causes more damage, both in deaths and financially, than a few terrorist attacks the Islamists pulled off.
     
    BRUm, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  3. popotalk

    popotalk Notable Member

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    #243
    You said balance it ? I will assume you are a white man and a British national in which case if you have the time please visit Jolo, Sulu in the Philippines then post here about your experiences then I know that your head is still intact. That's an issue.

    I like Mighty Thor (The God of Thunder)

    I already chose a side.

    You mean to say that the Jews are much more better than the British ? No wonder the Palestinians are no match and being the only country surrounded by wolves I could understand why islamists are so pissed off.

    I chose the lesser evil
     
    popotalk, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #244
    So said the poor immigrant who is ashamed of his parents for being immigrants and thinks being a loud mouth "Rambo" makes him a white American while being scared and never dare to actually take part in the war. :)
     
    gworld, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  5. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #245
    I have...and the Qur'an, the Enuma Elish, the Rig Veda, the Egyptian Book Of The Dead, the Elder Edda, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Bhagavad Gita and Hesiod's Theogony.

    Spot on! It's because THEY are likely to fight back and the one supplies a large part of their oil!! LOL!

    Good point!
     
    pladecalvo, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  6. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #246
    I do know the KSA is full of Wahhabis. Afghanistan was the right target, and Pakistan would have made a nice secondary target. Saudi Arabia much less so, despite the fact it has a large population of drooling idiots. Can't go to war with everyone. Labeling Pakistan and KSA as the "Actual" countries that carried out the attacks seems like a misnomer. The whole thing was headquartered out of Afghanistan.

    I didn't say that. I said things happen in war we may condemn, but that doesn't stop us from supporting our country and our allies, even though they do some things we may condemn. You can condemn the activity while still supporting the ally. What I think people have to get behind is the FACT they are at a state of war, one which has lasted since 1948. Once that is established, the rest is easy.

    Thinking about it, perhaps the best thing Israel could do is completely withdraw from the occupied West Bank and let Palestine build up their war machine a bit and attack. This thing is never going to end so long as it just simmers. Of course that would, in the mean time, leave the remaining Jews in the West Bank subject to all manner of atrocities. It will never happen.

    Primitive is one adjective, I can think of others. It does highlight how much more Israel has in common with western civilization.

    So long as you don't expect us to go protect Israels feeble minded neighbors when they lose a conflict they will most definitely initiate, I would be fine with leaving them to deal with their own problems. Is that something you would be ok with?
     
    Obamanation, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  7. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #247
    Jesus GWorld. You miss Apocalypse don't you. You so enjoyed posting all those pictures of Romanian hookers, you now find yourself bored out of your mind. It saddens me. Should I respond to your post as if you managed to get under my skin to ease your anxiety a bit?

    How dare you call me a scared little Rambo! What do you know about it! Get back to your carpet cleaning business and peddle your marxism elsewhere!

    There, you feel better? Just trying to help. Let me know if you need a little more contrived angst. Just let me know what the tone should be for maximum enjoyment value.
     
    Obamanation, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  8. pladecalvo

    pladecalvo Peon

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    #248
    Aaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!! So if Russia planned an attack on the USA from a base in Britain...you would attack Britain and not Russia??? LMFAO!
     
    pladecalvo, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  9. BRUm

    BRUm Well-Known Member

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    #249
    15 of 19 hijackers were Saudis trained/aided/funded by Pakistan, so the story goes. Afghanistan was the stupidest mistake ever. No one in history has ever conquered it and to target such a gigantic country for one or a few men who supposedly planned it when they could have skipped town in an instant, is even more idiotic. What about Iraq? No WMDs there, no Wahhabi or Al-Q there... Saudi A is the real threat and has the US by the balls. No oil plus more attacks is a nice incentive to leave them out.

    Where abouts in Afghanistan was this supposedly headquarted? In their secret mountainous underground high-tech military base like Rumsfeld bullshitted everyone about?
    Ok but the idea that the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' is disastrous. Proxy wars always cause problems down the line. You'd think you'd have learned your lessons from the past. Why do you have to have Israel as an ally when their existence is so controversial?

    The Palestinians are barely surviving. Honestly, put yourself in their position. You wake up one day in the late forties to find your area given up to someone else you've never even met before and 60 years down the line you're a minority in what was your own country. There really is no way of rationalising it. Some dubious history of thousands of years ago is the closest Jews get and that's just laughable.

    I want out of that area completely. We can't even manage our homefronts properly let alone dedicate time and money to crap that doesn't concern us. You remember what happened to Rome while their military was elsewhere?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
    BRUm, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  10. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #250
    In 2011, it was in the post you cited. Or did you not read anything that proves you wrong?

    Why has the U.N. chosen to deny Palestine membership in the United Nations?
    Why are other Arab nations blocking Palestine's full admission to the United Nations?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
    Corwin, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  11. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #251
    I'm not saying KSA is not an issue. Anyone who has read my posts here knows I am very aware of that fact. With regard to 9-11 in particular, if you saying the Saudi Govt. provided material support outside of allowing Wahhabists to practice their religion, I would be interested in seeing your evidence. The leadership of Afghanistan, on the other hand, was intimately aware and supportive of Bin Laden and his training camps.

    Your point about Pakistan is also well takem but thankfully Pakistan had more rational leadership in it's dictator general. Bush gave the Pakistan an ultimatum and it's president capitulated. The mishandling of Pakistan since that day I can't speak to, but you make it sound as though nothing was done about Pakistan. That would be incorrect.

    Thanks for acknowledging that Saudi Arabia has for a long time been a vital strategic asset for the US economy. This is where I remind you that, while one may not entirely agree with the tactics a nation uses, such tactics are often important for survival. Without KSA, the oil cartel would be playing with our economy in much the same way Putin uses gazprom to play with Europe.

    Do you really think we wouldn't deal with the KSA if they stopped asking "How High?" every time we ask them to jump?

    How about the idea my friend is my friend because he is like me. We stand behind Israel for many of the same reasons we stood behind the UK during WWII. FYI, the only controversy surrounding Israel's existence is created by those who want to destroy her. Why should we, or anyone else pay heed to that?


    Tell me about it. I live in California.

    How did the UN get it so wrong? More importantly, if it's none of our business, why comment on it at all?

    That wasn't an answer to the question. 1967, all of Israel's neighbors pounced on her and got their asses handed to them. Israel ended up occupying the entire Sinai, controlling the Suez canal, and all the asshats who were aggressors only moments prior suddenly became the victims. According to your policy of laissez faire, do we ignore the whiney arabs when they get their asses kicked next time? Its a yes or no question.
     
    Obamanation, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  12. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #252
    LOL. I know exactly how you feel my chicano friend and no amonut of neo-con speech and "Rambo" talk is going to make you a white American. It must be terrible to strive all your life to be excepted as an American while Americans just see you as another poor chicano and you are never going to achive the dream of your life. :)
     
    gworld, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  13. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #253
    Nonsense! All I have to do is kill a black man and the media will make me an honorary white guy. It worked for George Zimmerman!
     
    Obamanation, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  14. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #254
    To do that, you have to come over another big obstacle of your life being a coward. I mean if you could kill or dared to fight, you would have taken part in your holy war of saving the world from Muslims. wouldn't you? Being a big mouth is very easy, to actually do anything is totally different thing. :)
     
    gworld, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  15. Mikaël2

    Mikaël2 Member

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    #255
    You have a habit of asking loaded questions. I don't remember the UN denying Palestine membership. If you have evidence that Palestine was denied membership, then provide it.
     
    Mikaël2, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  16. Mikaël2

    Mikaël2 Member

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    #256
    I think it's the other way around. The KSA tell you to "jump", you guys ask "how high".

    How about Israel fucks off and leaves the world alone.

    The UN had 50 members, moron. only 37 countries voted for the partition plan of Palestine (most were bribed). The resolution would only be binding if the Palestinians agreed to give some of their land away. The Palestinians refused to partition their country.That's why the resolution was NEVER implemented.

    Ah yes, the famous 67 war, when Israel attacked it's neighbours for no legitimate reason. Took the Arabs 6 years to recover and kick Israel's ass though, then Nixon the anti-semite decides to save Israel from annihilation (see operation nickelgrass. ) I wonder why an anti-semite would do such a thing ?
     
    Mikaël2, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  17. BRUm

    BRUm Well-Known Member

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    #257
    WWII is another debate.. don't get me started on that. Churchill is one of the worst prime ministers we've ever had, I'll just leave it at that.

    You're poo pooing the controversy around Israel's existence too quickly. It has little do with those who want to "destroy" their state, it's a legitimate concern for those who take interest in world affairs. It's a simple question of morality: Europeans moved in and took someone else's land and have established a powerful stronghold there supported by our countries. Tactics on both sides aside, how this became accepted is insane. I notice that you left this part of my last post out completely.

    It's my business when my tax money is bloodying my hands. Until we stop giving foreign aid I will concern myself with everything about their affairs, regardless of whether I'd like to or not.

    Yes I would ignore them. If they don't have the means to win then don't do it. Creating Palestinian territories as the world's largest prison for civilians is not the same as warfare, though. I don't care about wars elsewhere, but using attrition to punish non-combatants is unacceptable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
    BRUm, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  18. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #258
    Until mid 20th century, spoils of war went to the victor. This was how things were done. Looking back on history through today's lense of fixed borders and opposition to imperialism seems silly. It was what it was, and as they say, the sun never set on the British empire, because it had so damn much land around the planet, including Israel and Palestine.

    To question Israel's statehood 60 years later seems about as lame as questioning US posession of indian lands, or Britains posession of Northern Ireland. If anything, weighing in on either side seems to be poking your nose around in the affairs of other nation's business, which runs contrary to your mantra .


    Well that seems even handed, though I'm sure you are aware the bloodshed from such hands off diplomacy would make anything we've seen to date look like gentle and tender loving. You tell Israel and the Arabs that you are not going to meddle in their affairs, and you might as well plant a Star of David over the KSA, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.

    Unacceptable how? Unacceptable as in you would be willing to use your country's blood and treasure to prevent it? Doesn't that run exactly opposite to every reason you've provided for not wanting to get involved in the area?
     
    Obamanation, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  19. BRUm

    BRUm Well-Known Member

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    #259
    Not quite. When the pilgrims arrived on the shores of the American continent the lands were barren and the natives occupied an almost insignificant area. Your country is huge, it is silly to say natives had claim to the entire continent. I'm sure you're aware how tiny Palestine/Israel is. US migration and Israeli migration cannot be compared. Like I said previously, as long as my money is spent in these lands it is my business, this is not contradictory.

    I'm not naive enough to believe that we're a lead (or leash, as you'd call it) of any kind over the Israelis. There wouldn't be an all out outbreak of war if we left them be. Neither side is that stupid nor are their establishments that fanatical. If the Israelis wanted war, they'd begin. Instead like most cowardly politicians they'll settle for rhetoric.

    Unacceptable in that anyone with a moral compass would be repulsed by the state of Palestinian territories. I can hold an opinion without meddling. You Americans are so quick to think in extremes, it's quite funny :)

    As one of your countrymen said to me when I raised this to him: "Welcome to the US judicial system where the metric is extremities and there is no in between."
     
    BRUm, Aug 16, 2012 IP
  20. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #260
    I like that. Mitt Romney has a big spread, far too big for him, so I'm headed over there to claim my chunk right now. Occupy!

    Seriously, the size of the peice of land being stolen, conquered, or seized has nothing to do with the morality of the act. It is either yours to take, or it isnt.


    I'm not naive enough to think I can accurately predict an outcome. I have only history to guide my prognostication. If history serves me right, these two groups of people have traditionally hated each other, one group in particular stating their desire to kill off the other in their constitution.

    If history is any kind of predictor, Israel's enemies would band together and try and deal with the Jewish problem. Shortly thereafter, the Jewish problem would become their problem, and the Jews won't just push the invaders out. The counter invasion would leave the numerically superior invaders without land, military, or finances, at which time they would come crying to the rest of the world about how the evil Jews beat them up. It happened in 67, and very little has changed since.



    So summing up your position, until the UK quits supporting Israel with your tax dollars, you will voice opposition to it. Once the UK stops supporting Israel with your tax dollars, you will voice opposition to the treatment of the Palestinians,but have absolutely no desire to get involved as a nation to help them. You also would not support the UK getting involved if every Arab state simultaneously attacked Israel or Israel on the counter offensive fenced off a 500 square mile chunk of desert, and dropped every arab within, declaring the rest of the land "New Israel".

    Have I got it right?
     
    Obamanation, Aug 16, 2012 IP