Islamization of Europe

So religions are bad because they threaten you with hell but you're telling me that I'm a moron (2x2=5) if I'm religious . So non-religious = hell and religious = moron , both belief systems threaten people with an undesirable and scientific unprovable outcome if you don't obey them. Either atheism is a religion or its followers copy in verbatim the tactics of religious extremists.

In regards to the opinion dilemma and the quest for better decisions I think a dose or realism is needed. We are imperfect humans using imperfect knowledge to take imperfect decisions and implement those decisions in a imperfect way. Even the seemingly perfect laws of physics can be proven imperfect and wanting. Humanity has improved this process over the years but has also experienced major setbacks.

As for your idea that the universe is progressive - you're either really dam religious or ignoring the current scientific fact that the universe will end up either in a massive disintegration of all particles or in a fiery inferno. That's as progressive as being on death row. When the end result is total annihilation it's not progress.

Now to your final point - religions are ideas , systems of believes that cover most aspects of life and radically influence most or all decisions made by a human throughout his life. Religions don't install a decision making software in your brain all decisions belong 100% to you and each and every human has a unique take on his religious beliefs.

Maybe for you as a former Muslim this is how religion looks - a rigid , cold , unmovable and unforgiving set of rules . For me a s Christian it couldn't be more different I have 10 commandments to obey and 1 golden rule. I believe that God made us to be creators not mindless sheep , robots or slaves. Consider this - if an omnipotent , omniscient entity wanted to create a race of robots why not embed the religious code into our DNA ? Why bother giving us the gift of free will and then giving us a book to act like a unmovable code ? Why give us the intelligence to doubt the code ?

In my opinion it is a insult to the Creator for a human not to use his gifts , especially the gifts of free will , intelligence and the ability to imagine and forge new ideas. Religions are and always will be nothing more then an organized group of ideas that can be proven in a smaller or greater measure.

Also for frak sakes don't bring science into this. Science has nothing to do with religion or atheism . All scientific results were and are obtained by taking out belief systems out of the equation. Otherwise 1 + 1 = 2 would be like this: "1 + 1 + Omnipotence = Anything" , in the case of atheism "1 + 1 + no God = 2 and why do I need this here ?" . Feel free to replace the third part or the equation with any other belief , the result will be either failure to compute or extra clutter.

 

I must admit that after reading this first line, I didn´t read the rest of your post. You are totally mistaken if you think that we believe you are a moron because you are religious, I would think that you are a moron even if you were an atheist.

 

I didn't say you are a moron. I was trying to explain that we are 100% free to believe anything even if it's a wrong math equation. At the end, it's a belief, not a fact. You believe there is a God who created us and everything. It's the same with saying 2x2 = 5. Because there is no proof in both of the statements. Believing something doesn't make someone a moron. It's just a need. Some people need to believe something especially if they are desperate, poor and/or not well educated. If you know more, you need less to rely on beliefs. If you know you will win the biggest prize, you buy a lottery ticket and win it. If you don't know, you need or want to believe you will win the biggest prize. It doesn't make you a moron. It's your life you are free to believe if you want or need.

 

I'll drink to that! (Well, I would, if I wasn't at work.) If more people had this attitude then there would be a lot less problems in life.

 

I would say let's drink together if you and I were in the same country.

People are legally free to believe or not in the Western countries. Attitudes are important too. But laws, legal rights play the biggest role, attitudes come later.

In Western countries, religious and non-religious people live together. That's why I am trying to get out of Turkey and live in a non-muslim country. The government here continuously makes new laws to make the society more religious. They create new laws attacking to my personal freedoms, lifestyle and probably my human rights. They want to reduce alcohol consumption with islamist references. Their latest law prohibits selling alcohol at more places in cities and everywhere after 10:00 PM. Probably this new law will just create more alcoholics. But I don't care what will happen here. I don't want to live in an Islam country and I don't like Islam, islamist laws and rules. I want to live my life and this is not possible.

Western countries don't want people coming from muslim countries unless they are rich enough or have some very rare skills that are not available in their countries. I am not rich and don't have such a rare skill. I am desperate. But I still don't believe God or a religion Because I am well educated. I know religions are not good. I don't like islam and I have nowhere to go to escape from an islam country. I will try Russia while they give us one month visitor visa. As far as I know we are not allowed to enter to any Western country (Europe, US, CA, AU, NZ) even as a tourist. Most probably all the citizens of other islam countries have the same or similar visa barriers like me. People of the western countries don't want to live with muslims and they are 100% right while even I don't want to live with them together.

 

As you know I am against all religions and governments that try to impose religious laws into civil laws but making a wrong assumption just decreases the value of right logic. If you want to look at alcohol laws, look at Sweden where alcohol can be sold only through special government shops which are open between 9-18 on week days. UK was trying to have a minimum price based on alcohol level last year and then from historical perspective you have the prohibition Period in USA when alcohol was totally forbidden.

 

They haven been also taking about 600% tax from alcoholic drinks. It's too expensive to pay $50 for a 75 cl low-medium quality drink where the minimum wage is $400 per month. If you pay $70 for alcoholic drinks, you are paying $60 tax, $10 for the drink. They don't do these for health. Alcohol is a sin in Islam. They tax atheists and soft-muslims. They use the tax money taken from non-believers for in favor of the radical islamists. They build more mosques for them though there are plenty of mosques everywhere. They build more religious schools where students learn to read and memorize original Arabic quran book though they don't speak and understand Arabic. They use tax system to punish atheists and discriminate the society. It's their habit. Most of the time they talk with religious, Arabic words to look like how good muslim they are. More strict laws will be on the way if they win the next election and they will win again.

Their mindset is so different with the Western governments in Sweden or USA. They force everyone in the country to obey islamist rules and live accordingly. They don't care if you like islam or not. They force you. They touch every private part of your personal life including how many child you should have, marriage, abortion, education, business, drinking, praying, etc. There is no freedom and personal life here. You can't live as a free individual in an Islam country. Islam is very bad.

 

That's pretty much it. That's my problem with Muslims. I really find it funny when Muslims bitch very loudly about people hating them because of a handful of extremists or some wacko statements from some wacko people. But you wont see them condemning those wacko extremists in equal voice. That is my problem with them. They learned how to victimize themselves when they are in minority. But where they are in majority, they simply hide behind those extremist nut jobs and let them oppress and even brutalize other religious minority and homosexuals.

 

I am drunk for now. Sorry. I couldn't understand what you say. Islam is very vad.

 

And exterimist Hindus are so much better and symbol of tolerance , NOT.

 

Yes you can have a better idea about them if you look at the places where they are in majority. In Europe, they are not in majority and they can never be in majority. Because Europe values open mind, science, arts, social justice, personal rights, rule of law, democracy, equality and freedom. In such a good environment, religions don't have much to do. If Europe could spread the same values to the whole World since 1789, French revolution, religions would have almost nothing to do in the whole World.

 

You forgot that this is the same Europe that gassed and put in ovens six millions Jews and hundreds of thousands of homosexuals, handicapped and gypsies.
Anti-Semitism and hatred toward homosexuals is still as strong as 70 years ago in most Eastern Europe specially the country that you dream to go and live in namely Russia.
USA less than 50 years ago and this type of sentiment is still very strong under the surface.

 

Are you referring racism across Europe and US? As far as I know this thread is to discuss religions though I am not the owner of original post of this thread. Racism is a different topic than religions. They both are similar in their discriminatory nature. But they have some differences.

You can't find any innocent country if you read some history. Never live in the past. Forget the past hostilities. Focus on today and tomorrow. Otherwise, you can only generate new hostilities. People are same everywhere. There is no best/excellent race or religion. There are needs that have to be satisfied with the scarce resources. Racism and religions are artificial/fake coats to hide the reality, conflicts of interest in sharing the scarce resources.

As for the homosexuals, yes I agree. Those people shouldn't be discriminated. Europe is the best place in the World for homosexuals. Isn't it?

As for Russia, Russia will give me 1 month visitor visa. EU, US, CA, AU will never give me a visa. I can only dream Russia. It's not my fault. It's the fault of Western countries.

 

Anti-Semitism has its roots in religion and not race. Christianity (Catholic Church) was in an opinion that the blood of Jesus is on all Jews. It was not until 20 years after the end of WWII that Church absolved the Jews of the crime of killing Jesus.
I hate Islam and all other religions as much as you do and may be more but I will look foolish if I blame Islam because it is raining right now and I like the sun, some of your posts is very similar to that kind of logic.

 

I edited my previous post to add something about homosexuals and Russia as you mentioned in your previous post.

I think I got your point now. You are saying Christianity is also very bad like Islam and other religions. Then I agree.
Somebody, most probably a person from Israel, told me Jews are a nation rather than a religion. That's why I thought you might be referring racism, not religion. I have a very limited knowledge about Jewish/Israeli society and their history. I couldn't learn yet which one is their nation name, which one is their religion name in English. I am sorry for my confusion.

 

Looking at the edit of your last post makes me wonder what do you think is wrong with you that no country will give you a visa? Canada takes many immigrants from different countries every year. Germany is full with the Turks. Turkey is actually in the process of joining the EU. If you have no education, no money,... And that is the reason you cannot get a visa then your life will not be any better in Europe or USA. Here is what it looks like for people without money and education in the USA.

 

Where are you from? It's asked on their online visa application forms and you get a different attitude based on your answer. They, including Canada, clearly discriminate visa applicants based on their nationalities. Of course they may have reasons and rights to do whatever they wish as sovereign countries. I don't discuss that. But there is no need for you to advocate their discriminatory attitudes.

Education is not really what they want, I have about 20 years schooling life. Yes I agree with you, they want money. They want a few millions USD if someone wants to live in their countries under an investor visa. If the applicant is from a country they like, they don't require such things for visa.

I have just found a page at wikipedia that has a list of countries and I see that the countries in South America (except Guyana and Suriname) will give me a 90 days visa, longer than 30 days Russian visa. So I hope you are understanding now like me that the visa issues are not personal at all. It's a country or nationality level issue.
So you can do nothing about it since you can't select where you will be born.

I don't want to go out of the topic of this thread. You may PM me if you wish. I just wanted to emphasize that the West is not perfect especially for the people living outside of their borders (West = Europe+US+CA+AU). At least their visa policy is highly discriminatory and not fair at all. This doesn't make them a monster but doesn't make them "perfect" too. It's their own problem not mine as long as I can find a little better country than Turkey at least to visit.

By the way, the Turks you mentioned in Germany and Europe were mostly poor, unemployed and uneducated villagers before they migrated to Germany as worker in 60's and 70's. Most of the other Turks who had a job or a good education (high school gradute was almost the highest education level in those years, good education was anything after the 5 years primary school) didn't go to Germany to work. So the Turks in Germany are not 100% identical with the Turks who didn't go to Germany.

EU is not going to accept Turkey as a member of EU. The membership process is a never ending 40-50 years old process and it's not gonna end in the next 100 years. The membership process has a similar unfair attitude like they do in their visa policy. EU lies to Turkey. That is unfair. Personally I don't care about those issues. Because I don't like Turkey and I can't live in Europe. So I don't care about them.

 

Woman (married to a Muslim) sacked over a false accusation.


The accuser is most likely using Islam's "permissible lie".

 

Even quoting a speech criticising Islam by Churchill would land one British politician in jail. Where is the free speech?