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Islamists Amputate Limbs of 4 Somalis Accused of Theft

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by browntwn, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. #1
    Islamists Amputate Limbs of 4 Somalis Accused of Theft

    MOGADISHU, Somalia — Islamic insurgents trying to overthrow the government of Somalia cut off the right hands and left legs of four young men accused of theft on Thursday, bringing their strict brand of justice to the capital for the first time, witnesses said.

    Somalia has been reeling from a pitched battle between the transitional government and the insurgents, particularly in the capital, Mogadishu, where hundreds have been killed and tens of thousands displaced in recent weeks alone.

    Responding to what he called an urgent request by Somali officials, the State Department spokesman, Ian Kelley, said Thursday that the United States had provided Somalia’s government with weapons and ammunition “to repel the onslaught of extremist forces” that were “spoiling efforts to bring peace and stability” to the nation.
    SEMrush
    The Shabab, one of the principal Islamic groups fighting to topple the government, was behind the punishment. It has imposed harsh sentences in other parts of the country that it controls and, at least once, stoned to death a teenage girl who said she had been raped, an act that drew international condemnation.

    But residents described the amputations on Thursday as the first in the capital since a clan-based Islamic court carried out similar sentences about 15 years ago. Analysts said the Shabab, which is accused of having links to Al Qaeda, might be trying to win popular support in the capital by showing that it could achieve stability in the chaotic nation through a firm enactment of Shariah, or Islamic law.

    The issue has emerged as a contentious element in the battle for control. The government is led by moderate Islamists who have, at least officially, agreed to make Shariah the basis of Somalia’s legal system, a move that could politically isolate the more extreme wing of the insurgency by undermining its claims of legitimacy.

    But the government’s enactment of Islamic law seems to have been delayed, in part because it is struggling to simply survive, much less carry out new measures. So it remains unclear exactly how the government’s interpretation of Shariah would be practiced.

    The amputations of the four young men, who had been accused of stealing items like a cellphone or a pistol, took place near a former animal market in front of a crowd of more than 100 people, many of them women and children. Some shouted “God is great” at the spectacle, witnesses said, while others fell to the ground in shock and fear.

    The Shabab said it would care for the men until their wounds had healed. source

    _______________

    Is Sharia Islam?
    Is Sharia something that anyone here would chose to live under?
    Is Sharia violent and uncivilized?
    It is bararic to stone a rape victim to death?
    Is it barbaric to cut of the hands and feet of a man accused of stealing a cell phone?
    Does the Koran or Allah condone such punishments?

    Where do people get this image that Islam is violent? Suicide bombings - check, stoning young women - check, cutting off the hands and feet of criminals - check. Beheadings - check. The calls in the text of the Koran to kill non-believers and others - check.

    The only part of Islam that appears not violent is Muslims telling everyone that it is non-violent. The reality paints a different picture. It seems that the many Muslims here on DP, while they are happy to defend Islam here, would themselves be subject to harsh punishments for their behavior if they lived under Islamic law.

    Why are we to believe that peaceful Muslims (of which there are many hundreds of millions) are practicing real Islam and the violent Muslims are not? Why is the opposite not equally true? Who says that the violent interpretations are wrong? Maybe they are right? This is the fight over the soul of Islam that will be fought over the next generations.
     
    browntwn, Jun 25, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. ChaosTrivia

    ChaosTrivia Active Member

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    #2
    Great post. like always.

    You forgot many more "checks" -
    1) wife beating
    2) Honor Killings
    3) In Iran (and 3 more countries), you get a death penalty if you dare marry a non muslim.
    4) A woman cannot marry unless her father approves - punishment: 10 years.
    and the worst sin of all :
    5) Do not dare to insult the prophet or be beheaded !
     
    ChaosTrivia, Jun 25, 2009 IP
  3. eric8476

    eric8476 Active Member

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    #3
    Countries based on religion before democracy tend to gravitate towards their religious teachings for law and punishment and not towards democratic laws and punishment. With that said there are elements of religious laws and punishment in all democratic countries. Hope for more of a favoritism for democratic law and punishment before religious laws and punishment is helpful.
     
    eric8476, Jun 25, 2009 IP
  4. TheMightOfLove

    TheMightOfLove Peon

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    #4
    God as I know Him is the Nicest Being. The Nicest being cannot approve such an act to punish people ....
    God does not need cripled people. God wants people to live in good health, to think right, to act right,
    This is very materialistic thinking to cut somebody's limbs because of stealing.... God created the world and everything belongs to Him, we have just temporary control over certain things....
    This is quite barbaric act and should be condemned by the UN and the muslims from the whole world.

    These guys should have been helped with Love. This kind of punishment creates nothing, but a sociaty ruled on the bases of FEAR, not on Love.
    Lying is a sin too, why did they choose to punish only for material things?

    IMO Sharia is a human invention, it surely does not come from God.
     
    TheMightOfLove, Jun 25, 2009 IP
  5. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #5
    IMO...

    Is Sharia Islam? Yes, I would say so, it's Islamic law.

    Is Sharia something that anyone here would chose to live under? No, I would NEVER.

    Is Sharia violent and uncivilized? Yes.

    It is bararic to stone a rape victim to death? Yes.

    Is it barbaric to cut of the hands and feet of a man accused of stealing a cell phone? Yes.

    Does the Koran or Allah condone such punishments? Yes.
     
    Rebecca, Jun 25, 2009 IP
  6. sachin410

    sachin410 Illustrious Member

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    #6
    Yes.

    That is what Quran says...

    http://www.islamicvoice.com/november.99/religion.htm

    Note: it is an Islamic site.
     
    sachin410, Jun 25, 2009 IP
  7. gauharjk

    gauharjk Well-Known Member

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    #7
    Sharia is the constitutional law of Early Islamic empire. It can be changed if there is consensus among people that a law is wrong.
    I don't live under Sharia law, and have no plans to do so. I am a Libertarian.
    Sometimes. But people can change Sharia.
    Yes. It is inhuman.
    Yes, it is wrong.
    No. According to Islamic law, a punishment is commensurate to the crime committed. So, you cannot cut off hands of a person for stealing a cell phone.

    There are verses in the Quran that command us to cut off hands of thieves. But it is misquoted. The verses do not talk about petty thieves. But the gangs of desert pirates who would attack caravans and loot them. Such punishment is ordained for them.

    People do not follow the real spirit of Islam, which means peace. Things have to change in the Islamic world. I hope internet can change that. The next generation would be better educated in real Islamic ways, and discard the old barbaric tribal ways.

    Appearances can be deceiving.

    You cannot judge a religion by looking at the people. Muslims have lost their way.

    There was an interesting PBS documentary about Islam that reminds us of what we should aspire to become, and examine where we are today - http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/

    Islam: Empire of Faith -Part 1


    Islam: Empire of Faith - Part 2


    Islam: Empire of Faith - Part 3


    Things will change.
     
    gauharjk, Jun 25, 2009 IP
    browntwn likes this.
  8. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #8
    It's always nice to see how the more "civilized" and "peaceful" religion deals with problems...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    Mia, Jun 26, 2009 IP
  9. new

    new Peon

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    #9



    I beg to disagree
    Sharia law can't be changed
     
    new, Jun 26, 2009 IP
  10. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #10
    And here we have the example of why Islam must fight for its true identity. One Muslim says we can change Sharia...another says we can't change it. Sadly it seems that the Muslims who support violent interpretations of their religion are either more voluminous in number or simply more vocal. Either way, the Muslim community must change it. People like new who support Sharia and all that comes with it - the stonings of rape victims, the chopping off hands and feet of petty criminals, etc., need to be confronted and stopped. Not just by non-Muslims but as much, or even more so, by fellow Muslims. When posts on this forum are made about atrocities committed in the name of Islam, it seems the Muslims either support the actions or remain silent. That is tantamount to abdicating the religion to the most extreme members.

    Will people like new who support barbaric interpretations of Islam prevail or will people like gauharjk with his more peaceful interpretation of Islam prevail?

    (It is my belief from both of your posts on DP that you are both Muslim. I don't usually ask people what religion they are, as I don't really care. My apologies if my assumption was incorrect.)
     
    browntwn, Jun 26, 2009 IP
  11. new

    new Peon

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    #11
    People like brwntwn who want to impose there way of life on others also need to be stopped. The things you guys do in yours societies also appear to us as crazy as Islam looks to you
    You have no right to force others to follow what you think is 'right'
     
    new, Jun 27, 2009 IP
  12. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #12
    Aside from not wanting you to kill infidels, stone women rape victims, commit suicide bombings, what exactly am I trying to impose on you?

    I don't care how you life you life, I care that you think it is okay (and that Allah thinks it is okay) to kill your neighbor when he decides he no longer want to be a Muslim.
     
    browntwn, Jun 27, 2009 IP
  13. Naughty Son

    Naughty Son Peon

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    #13
    Yes, I have heard such horrible "law enforcing" acts before. It is saddening. Thanks.
     
    Naughty Son, Jul 1, 2009 IP
  14. Polite teen

    Polite teen Guest

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    #14
    There are rules for applying the punishment.
    The criminal must be adult and aware and commiting their crime willingly, and there are other rules should be available.

    If you steal people, your hand will be cut off, so like it or not, it doesn't matter.

    My hand will be cut off if I stole people.
     
    Polite teen, Jul 2, 2009 IP
  15. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #15

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=11793491&postcount=8
     
    Mia, Jul 2, 2009 IP
  16. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #16
    "As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power." - Quran 5:38

     
    Rebecca, Jul 2, 2009 IP
  17. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #17
    Do you think it right or wrong to amputate limbs as punishment for the crime of theft? (don't worry, i don't expect an honest straight forward answer, i just wanted to ask the question to expose, yet again, your unwillingness to oppose obviously barbaric actions so long as they are done in the name of islam)

    I personally think it's sub-human, vindictive, barbaric and grossly excessive to amputate limbs for ANY crime, let alone the relatively trivial crime of theft. And i also think, as a civilised human being, i am obliged to try to stop it in any way possible.

    The trouble with islam is it is a backwards, dark ages belief system trying to exist in a progressive world. Sorry, but we simply wont put up with it.
     
    stOx, Jul 4, 2009 IP
    Stroh likes this.
  18. Truth777

    Truth777 Peon

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    #18

    I know that's painful for themk, but That's how it is viewed by most of the non muslim world.
    Hope you don't get banned for this statement. .... and hope we help the muslims realize that so many things from the quran are totally unacceptable in today's world.

    The muslim can find better belief system here .... no barbarity and humane.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsYaQLj8Efo
     
    Truth777, Jul 4, 2009 IP
  19. Polite teen

    Polite teen Guest

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    #19
    I think it is natural that those who attack the Peace are be destroyed.

    Muslims love The Peace and they like to defend for the Highest kingdome, The Kingdome of The Peace.

    If you wish to practice crimes, then be away from the Peace's Kingdome.


    I personally think it's sub-human, vindictive, barbaric and grossly excessive to practice ANY crime. And i also think, as a civilised human being, i am obliged to try to stop it in any way possible.


    :rolleyes:

    O ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own folk, who would spare no pains to ruin you; they love to hamper you. Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their mouths, but that which their breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you the revelations if ye will understand. (118)
     
    Polite teen, Jul 5, 2009 IP
  20. Truth777

    Truth777 Peon

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    #20
    I don't believe your belief system creates better people. A belief system is supposed to elevate people and make them more noble and humane.
    With the barbarity islam uses to punish sinners shows that it survives not on the bases of higher values, but on the bases of instiling fear in the minds and hearts of its people.
    Although you practice barbaric punishment I know of a lot of muslims and cannot say for them they're more honest and noble than the Christians or anybody else. Honesty and Truth are not an ideal to follow for the muslims I know..... They have one code system related to women and that's all. And about stealing forget it. They lie and steal more than the Americans.
    Get loans from the banks with the intention to never pay them bank thinking the banks are stupid to loan them money. I am not talking about single cases and I am not saying all muslims do it in America, but the % of them doing it is quite high.
    Humane attitude to sinners will create a better society.
    Those who practice brutality brutallity will pay them a visit one day.
     
    Truth777, Jul 5, 2009 IP