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Is this true. If not please give the truth. Jesus and Mohammad

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by DiscussionPeace, Aug 12, 2006.

  1. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #61
    Check the usermap http://forums.digitalpoint.com/usermap.php and see that Americans are not the only people using this forum.
    I think you'll find that most of the english in the english speaking countries are not religous at all. It's generally only about 10% of the population who are practicing a christian based faith.
    It is possible to insult the way Islam is interpreted without insulting every Muslim in the process.

    For instance I can decry the fact that ice sellers are "reported" to be slain in Iraq because ice wasn't available in the Prophets day. That doesn't mean I insult the Muslims that live in my neighbourhood or in yours (unless you live in Iraq, I guess) and it certainly doesn't mean I lack respect for your religion.

    I question to way the Brethren live in my community, but to do so doesn't denigrate every Christian, or even individual Brethren.

    You need to separate the person from the beliefs.
     
    sarahk, Aug 14, 2006 IP
  2. DiscussionPeace

    DiscussionPeace Banned

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    #62
    Question to all muslims

    Nobody from the muslims answered my question yesterday. So I'll repeat it again today:


    Is this from the Quran?

    4 Women: ...4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, ....



    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...4/index.htm#89

    Can anyone from the muslims here answer this question? Just answer with Yes or No.
    dsp
    Thanks.
     
    DiscussionPeace, Aug 14, 2006 IP
  3. isfahanian

    isfahanian Peon

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    #63
    First of all let me address that both Jesus and Muhammad sucked. I feel pitty for both sides of the argument in this Forum.

    Yes: Muhammad married a 6 year girl callled Ayesheh. It is stated in Islam's history.

    Bible: How can you rely and quote on a book that has been written 50-100 years after the death of Jesus by bunch of lunatics. There exists no original bible in the hand of any christian. There are thousands versions of Bible practiced through out the world.

    Muhammad & Violence: No question about it. It's well stated in Islam's history. Anybody that says Muhammad was not a violent person is fooling him/herself.

    Violence in Bible: There are various examples and direct promotions of violent and terrorist acts in all versions of Bible; even more so that Quran:

    I can't post any URL in this forum. But if you want you can google "violence bible" or any similar combination to read the quotes:

    Genesis

    "God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31

    God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5

    Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

    God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

    God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

    God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23

    Noah kills the "clean beasts" and burns their dead bodies for God. According to 7:8 this would have caused the extinction of all "clean" animals since only two of each were taken onto the ark. "And the Lord smelled a sweet savor." 8:20

    To free Lot from captivity, Abram sends an army of slaves to pursue and smite his captors. 14:14-15

    God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10

    Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6

    Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Peter 2:7-8. 19:7-8

    God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24

    Lot's nameless wife looks back, and God turns her into a pillar of salt. 19:26

    God threatens to kill Abimelech and his people for believing Abe's lie. 20:3-7

    Sarai tells Abraham to "cast out this bondwoman and her son." God commands him to "hearken unto her voice." So Abraham abandons Hagar and Ishmael, casting them out into the wilderness to die. 21:10-14

    God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13

    Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. Only an evil God would ask a father to do that; only a bad father would be willing to do it. 22:10

    Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is "defiled" by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31

    The sons of Jacob trick Shechem into getting circumcised. Then they murder him, his sons, and all the males of the city, while taking their wives captive. 34:24-29

    "The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them." 35:5

    "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7

    After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10

    After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she "played the harlot" and "is with child by whoredom." When Judah hears this, he says, "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." 38:24

    Joseph interprets the baker's dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker's head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19
    Exodus

    Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12

    God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23

    God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26

    God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

    "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17

    God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24

    The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die. 9:2-6

    The sixth plague: boils and blains upon man and beast. 9:9-12

    "For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth." Who else but the biblical god could be so cruel? 9:14

    God kills all Egyptian cattle with hail. 9:19-20

    The seventh plague is hail. "And the hail smote throughout the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast." 9:22-25

    These verses clearly show that the mass murder of innocent children by God was premeditated. 11:4-6 (see 12:29-30)

    God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." 11:7

    God explains to Moses that he intends to "smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. 12:12

    After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." Finally, he runs out of little babies to kill, so he slaughters the firstborn cattle, too. 12:29

    To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to "sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix" -- all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. 13:2, 12, 15

    After hardening Pharaoh's heart a few more times, God drowns Pharaoh's army in the sea 14:4-28

    Moses and the people sing praises to their murderous god. 15:1-19

    "The Lord is a man of war." Indeed, judging from his acts in the Old Testament, he is a vicious warlike monster. 15:3

    God's right hand dashes people in pieces. 15:6

    If you do what God says, he won't send his diseases on you (like he did to the Egyptians). But otherwise.... 15:26

    Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." 17:13

    "The Lord has sworn [God swears!] that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." 17:14-16

    Any person or animal that touches Mt. Sinai shall be stoned to death or "shot through." 19:12-13

    Like the great and powerful Wizard of Oz, nobody can see God and live. 19:21

    God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such "burnt offerings," he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24

    A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15, 17

    An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 21:24-25

    If an ox gores someone, "then the ox shall surely be stoned." 21:28

    If an ox gores someone due to the negligence of its owner, then "the ox shall be stoned, and his owner shall be put to death.". 21:29
     
    isfahanian, Aug 14, 2006 IP
  4. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #64
    My son read that in a childs bible story book when he was 5 (a good reason not to teach little kids to read) and he interpreted it as ambition. You get to be the leader of a nation if you kill your son. Okeydokey. Love of God. Bollocks. Greed and power!
     
    sarahk, Aug 14, 2006 IP
  5. isfahanian

    isfahanian Peon

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    #65
    I researched and the DiscussionPeace quote from Quran was right.
     
    isfahanian, Aug 14, 2006 IP
  6. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #66
    He didn't kill him, a lamb with killed in his place - Jesus is refered to as the lamb. It was a test for him and the symbolism reads throughout the Bible.
     
    debunked, Aug 14, 2006 IP
  7. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #67
    Yes we know that, but according to the version he read Abraham was willing to kill the boy - and God gave a last minute reprieve.

    He was left wondering what kind of father would do that? his own?

    We've had a case of two 3 month premmy twins being killed by a family member (and they family has banded together to fight the police and protect the murderer) and my son saw that as reinforcement...
     
    sarahk, Aug 14, 2006 IP
  8. sebastya

    sebastya Well-Known Member

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    #68
    Jesus is God (John 1, Col. 1) and here. Jesus forgave sins and dispelled demons in His own name. He said "I and the Father are one".

    Muhammad admitted he is only a man (Sura 18:110)​


    Jesus raised Himself from the dead (Matthew 28:6) and rose into heaven in front of many witnesses.

    Muhammad remains dead​


    Jesus' Birth, Life, Death, Resurrection was foretold by numerous prophets.
    Proverbs 30:4 (written 700 B.C./1300 yrs before Muhammad): "...What is His name, and what is His son's name, if thou canst tell?"

    Nothing predicted about Muhammad. The "Comforter" was the Holy Spirit Jesus promised the apostles.​


    Jesus lived a sinless life (2 Corinthians 5:21).

    Allah himself refers to Muhammad as sinful (Sura 40:55, 48:1-2).​


    Jesus did numerous miracles to prove His divinity, including raising the dead and command over nature (All Gospel writers and Josephus). While teaching his apostles Jesus said; "Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves" (John 14:11 and Matthew 9:2-7)

    On two occasions in the Qur'an Muhammad admitted he could do no miracles (Sura 17:90-95; 3:183, also see: 29:50-51)​


    Jesus cared for His enemies (Matthew 5:43-44). Jesus promised to save those who believe and trust in Him.

    Muhammad killed his enemies and anyone who disagreed with him (Sura 9:5)​


    Jesus held a high view of marriage and hated divorce - as God the Father does (Matthew 19:7-8).

    Muhammad commanded his adopted son to divorce his wife so that she would become his (Sura 33:36-38)​


    Jesus gave his disciples authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness (Matthew 10:1; Mark 6:12-13)

    Muhammad gave his followers the authority to wage war on unbelievers.​


    Jesus told his disciples not to ask for money, and not to carry money with them. (Matthew 10:8-9, Luke 10:7)

    Muhammad instructed his followers on how to divide booty they seized from unbelievers.​


    Jesus said to his followers that if anyone will not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. (Matthew 10:14-15, 23)

    Muhammad ordered Muslims to attack any city that rejected Islam.​


    Jesus told his followers to get ready, because unbelievers would flog them, arrest them, and put them on trial (Matthew 10:16-19)

    Muhammad told his followers to fight (militarily) hard against unbelievers.
    "Kill the Mushrikun (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush..." Sura 9:5. Also see Sura 9:29.​


    Jesus washed his disciples' feet.
    He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. John 13:4-5, 12-17

    One day after battle, Muhammad came back home and said to his daughter Fatima, "Wash the blood from this sword and I swear in the name of Allah this sword was obeying me all the time." Muhammad then took the swords of his friend Ali ibn Abu Talib and washed them for him.​


    Jesus's last message to his followers about himself and his mission:
    Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:46-47

    Muhammad's last speech to his followers on Mt Arafat:
    ....."I descended by Allah with the sword in my hand, and my wealth will come from the shadow of my sword. And the one who will disagree with me will be humiliated and persecuted."​


    Wait, Jesus DID prophecy about Muhammad...

    Matthew 24
    11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people

    24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

    Matthew 7
    15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.


    -
     
    sebastya, Aug 14, 2006 IP
  9. Sherlock

    Sherlock Well-Known Member

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    #69
    Guess what Mr. Smarty pants........... you're wrong. Every thing youy told about Muhammad was a big lie. I know the truth i have 5 Quran in my house and i read it everyday.
    Just answer my one question:
    Do you think that people who converting into Muslims are MAD, do you think they would give up there religion for nothing. If this was the truth then Islam would not have been the most fastly progressing religion on earth. As i have reported earlier 800 hundred people are converting into muslims every single day. THEY ARE NOT MENTAL PEOPLE. THEY HAVE ALL THE SENSES YOU HAVE.

    Common Sense, which is not so common :D
     
    Sherlock, Aug 15, 2006 IP
  10. Sherlock

    Sherlock Well-Known Member

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    #70
    I am ready to answer for every thing you wrote about Muhammad (P.B.U.H). O my God man i cannot bear such lies. But guess what, this is not going to change anything because you know the real truth. :D. I know why truth is so Sour.
     
    Sherlock, Aug 15, 2006 IP
  11. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #71
    Muhammad was a great guy, right? Without sin and all that? :rolleyes:
     
    Blogmaster, Aug 15, 2006 IP
  12. Cheap SEO Services

    Cheap SEO Services <------DoFollow Backlinks

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    #72
    This is lengthy but it is a great read:

    Chapter 12

    Islām—The Way to God by Submission

    [Artwork—Arabic characters]

    “IN THE name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.” This sentence translates the Arabic text, above, from the Qur’ān. It continues: “Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds: The Beneficent, the Merciful: Owner of the Day of Judgement. Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. Show us the straight path: The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.”—The Qur’ān, surah 1:1-7, MMP.

    2 These words form Al-Fātiḥah (“The Opening”), the first chapter, or surah, of the Muslim holy book, the Holy Qur’ān, or Koran. Since more than 1 in 6 of the world’s population is Muslim and devout Muslims repeat these verses more than once in each of their five daily prayers, these must be among the most recited words on earth.

    3 According to one source, there are over 900 million Muslims in the world, making Islām second only to the Roman Catholic Church in numbers. It is perhaps the fastest growing major religion in the world, with an expanding Muslim movement in Africa and the Western world.

    4 The name Islām is significant to a Muslim, for it means “submission,” “surrender,” or “commitment” to Allāh, and according to one historian, “it expresses the innermost attitude of those who have hearkened to the preaching of Mohammed.” “Muslim” means ‘one who makes or does Islām.’

    5 Muslims believe that their faith is the culmination of the revelations given to the faithful Hebrews and Christians of old. However, their teachings diverge from the Bible on some points, even though they cite both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures in the Qur’ān. (See box, page 285.) To understand the Muslim faith better, we need to know how, where, and when this religion started.

    Muḥammad’s Calling

    6 Muḥammad was born in Mecca (Arabic, Makkah), Saudi Arabia, about 570 C.E. His father, ‛Abd Allāh, died before Muḥammad’s birth. His mother, Āminah, died when he was about six years old. At that time the Arabs practiced a form of worship of Allāh that was centered in the Mecca valley, at the sacred site of the Ka‛bah, a simple cubelike building where a black meteorite was revered. According to Islāmic tradition, “the Ka‛bah was originally built by Adam according to a celestial prototype and after the Deluge rebuilt by Abraham and Ishmael.” (History of the Arabs, by Philip K. Hitti) It became a sanctuary for 360 idols, one for each day of the lunar year.

    7 As Muḥammad grew up, he questioned the religious practices of his day. John Noss, in his book Man’s Religions, states: “[Muḥammad] was disturbed by incessant quarreling in the avowed interests of religion and honor among the Quraysh chiefs [Muḥammad belonged to that tribe]. Stronger still was his dissatisfaction with the primitive survivals in Arabian religion, the idolatrous polytheism and animism, the immorality at religious convocations and fairs, the drinking, gambling, and dancing that were fashionable, and the burial alive of unwanted infant daughters practiced not only in Mecca but throughout Arabia.”—Surah 6:137.

    8 Muḥammad’s call to be a prophet took place when he was about 40 years of age. He had the custom of going alone to a nearby mountain cave, called Ghār Ḥirā’, for meditation, and he claimed that it was on one of these occasions that he received the call to be a prophet. Muslim tradition relates that while he was there, an angel, later identified as Gabriel, commanded him to recite in the name of Allāh. Muḥammad failed to respond, so the angel ‘caught him forcefully and pressed him so hard that he could not bear it anymore.’ Then the angel repeated the command. Again, Muḥammad failed to react, so the angel ‘choked him’ again. This occurred three times before Muḥammad started to recite what came to be viewed as the first of a series of revelations that constitute the Qur’ān. Another tradition relates that divine inspiration was revealed to Muḥammad like the ringing of a bell.—The Book of Revelation from Ṣaḥīḥ Al-Bukhārī.

    Revelation of the Qur’ān

    9 What is said to have been the first revelation received by Muḥammad? Islāmic authorities generally agree that it was the first five verses of surah 96, entitled Al-‘Alaq, “The Clot [of Blood],” which reads:

    “In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
    Read: In the name of thy Lord who created.
    Created man from a clot.
    Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous,
    Who taught by the pen,
    Taught man that which he knew not.”—MMP.

    10 According to the Arabic source The Book of Revelation, Muḥammad answered, “I do not know how to read.” Therefore, he had to memorize the revelations so that he could repeat and recite them. The Arabs were skilled in the use of memory, and Muḥammad was no exception. How long did it take for him to receive the complete message of the Qur’ān? It is generally believed that the revelations came during a period of some 20 to 23 years, from about 610 C.E. to his death in 632 C.E.

    11 Muslim sources explain that upon receiving each revelation, Muḥammad immediately recited it to those who happened to be near. These in turn committed the revelation to memory and by recitation kept it alive. Since the manufacture of paper was unknown to the Arabs, Muḥammad had the revelations written down by scribes on the primitive materials then available, such as shoulder blades of camels, palm leaves, wood, and parchment. However, it was not until after the prophet’s death that the Qur’ān took its present form, under the guidance of Muḥammad’s successors and companions. This was during the rule of the first three caliphs, or Muslim leaders.

    12 Translator Muhammad Pickthall writes: “All the surahs of the Qur’an had been recorded in writing before the Prophet’s death, and many Muslims had committed the whole Qur’an to memory. But the written surahs were dispersed among the people; and when, in a battle . . . a large number of those who knew the whole Qur’an by heart were killed, a collection of the whole Qur’an was made and put in writing.”

    13 Islāmic life is governed by three authorities—the Qur’ān, the Ḥadīth, and the Sharī‛ah. (See box, page 291.) Muslims believe that the Qur’ān in Arabic is the purest form of the revelation, since, they say, it was the language used by God in speaking through Gabriel. Surah 43:3 states: “We have made it a Qur-ān in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).” (AYA) Thus, any translation is viewed as only a dilution that involves a loss of purity. In fact, some Islāmic scholars refuse to translate the Qur’ān. Their viewpoint is that “to translate is always to betray,” and therefore, “Muslims have always deprecated and at times prohibited any attempt to render it in another language,” states Dr. J. A. Williams, lecturer on Islāmic history.

    Islāmic Expansion

    14 Muḥammad founded his new faith against great odds. The people of Mecca, even of his own tribe, rejected him. After 13 years of persecution and hatred, he moved his center of activity north to Yathrib, which then became known as al-Madīnah (Medina), the city of the prophet. This emigration, or the hijrah, in 622 C.E. marked a significant point in Islāmic history, and the date was later adopted as the starting point for the Islāmic calendar.

    15 Eventually, Muḥammad achieved dominance when Mecca surrendered to him in January of 630 C.E. (8 A.H.) and he became its ruler. With the reins of secular and religious control in his hands, he was able to clean out the idolatrous images from the Ka‛bah and establish it as the focal point for pilgrimages to Mecca that continue down to this day.—See pages 289, 303.

    16 Within a few decades of Muḥammad’s death in 632 C.E., Islām had spread as far as Afghanistan and even to Tunisia in North Africa. By the early eighth century, the faith of the Qur’ān had penetrated into Spain and was at the French border. As Professor Ninian Smart stated in his book Background to the Long Search: “Looked at from a human point of view, the achievement of an Arabian prophet living in the sixth and seventh centuries after Christ is staggering. Humanly, it was from him that a new civilisation flowed. But of course for the Muslim the work was divine and the achievement that of Allah.”

    Muḥammad’s Death Leads to Division

    17 The prophet’s death provoked a crisis. He died without any male progeny and without a clearly designated successor. As Philip Hitti states: “The caliphate [office of caliph] is therefore the oldest problem Islam had to face. It is still a living issue. . . . In the words of Muslim historian al-Shahrastāni [1086-1153]: ‘Never was there an Islamic issue which brought about more bloodshed than the caliphate (imāmah).’” How was the problem solved back there in 632 C.E.? “Abu-Bakr . . . was designated (June 8, 632) Muḥammad’s successor by some form of election in which those leaders present at the capital, al-Madīnah, took part.”—History of the Arabs.

    18 The successor to the prophet would be a ruler, a khalīfah, or caliph. However, the question of the true successors to Muḥammad became a cause for divisions in the ranks of Islām. The Sunnī Muslims accept the principle of elective office rather than blood descent from the prophet. Therefore they believe that the first three caliphs, Abū Bakr (Muḥammad’s father-in-law), ‛Umar (the prophet’s adviser), and ‛Uthmān (the prophet’s son-in-law), were the legitimate successors to Muḥammad.

    19 That claim is contested by the Shī‛ite Muslims, who say that the true leadership comes through the prophet’s blood line and through his cousin and son-in-law, ‛Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, the first imām (leader and successor), who married Muḥammad’s favorite daughter, Fāṭimah. Their marriage produced Muḥammad’s grandsons Ḥasan and Ḥusayn. The Shī‛ites also claim “that from the beginning Allah and His Prophet had clearly designated ‛Ali as the only legitimate successor but that the first three caliphs had cheated him out of his rightful office.” (History of the Arabs) Of course, the Sunnī Muslims view that differently.

    20 What happened to ‛Alī? During his rule as the fourth caliph (656-661 C.E.), a struggle over leadership arose between him and the governor of Syria, Mu‛āwiyah. They joined battle, and then to spare further Muslim bloodshed, they threw their dispute open to arbitration. ‛Alī’s acceptance of arbitration weakened his case and alienated many of his followers, including the Khawārij (Seceders), who became his deadly foes. In the year 661 C.E., ‛Alī was murdered with a poisoned sabre by a Khārijī zealot. The two groups (the Sunnī and the Shī‛ah) were at loggerheads. The Sunnī branch of Islām then chose a leader from the Umayyads, wealthy Meccan chiefs, who were outside of the prophet’s family.

    21 For the Shī‛ah, ‛Alī’s firstborn, Ḥasan, the prophet’s grandson, was the true successor. However, he resigned and was murdered. His brother Ḥusayn became the new imām, but he too was killed, by Umayyad troops on October 10, 680 C.E. His death or martyrdom, as the Shī‛ah view it, has had a significant effect on the Shī‛at ‛Alī, the party of ‛Alī, down to this day. They believe that ‛Alī was the true successor to Muḥammad and the first “imām [leader] divinely protected against error and sin.” ‛Alī and his successors were considered by the Shī‛ah to be infallible teachers with “the divine gift of impeccability.” The largest segment of the Shī‛ah believe that there have been only 12 true imāms, and the last of these, Muḥammad al-Muntaẓar, disappeared (878 C.E.) “in the cave of the great mosque at Sāmarra without leaving offspring.” Thus “he became ‘the hidden (mustatir)’ or ‘the expected (muntaẓar) imām.’ . . . In due time he will appear as the Mahdi (divinely guided one) to restore true Islam, conquer the whole world and usher in a short millennium before the end of all things.”—History of the Arabs.

    22 Every year, the Shī‛ah commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Ḥusayn. They have processions in which some cut themselves with knives and swords and otherwise inflict suffering on themselves. In more modern times, Shī‛ite Muslims have received much publicity because of their zeal for Islāmic causes. However, they represent only about 20 percent of the world’s Muslims, the majority being Sunnī Muslims. But now, let us turn to some of the teachings of Islām and note how the Islāmic faith affects the daily conduct of Muslims.

    God Is Supreme, Not Jesus

    23 The three major monotheistic religions of the world are Judaism, Christianity, and Islām. But by the time Muḥammad appeared toward the beginning of the seventh century C.E., the first two religions, as far as he was concerned, had wandered from the path of truth. In fact, according to some Islāmic commentators, the Qur’ān implies rejection of Jews and of Christians in stating: “Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.” (Surah 1:7, MMP) Why is that?

    24 A Qur’ānic commentary states: “The People of the Book went wrong: The Jews in breaking their Covenant, and slandering Mary and Jesus . . . and the Christians in raising Jesus the Apostle to equality with God” by means of the Trinity doctrine.—Surah 4:153-176, AYA.

    25 The principal teaching of Islām, for utter simplicity, is what is known as the shahādah, or confession of faith, which every Muslim knows by heart: “La ilāh illa Allāh; Muḥammad rasūl Allāh” (No god but Allah; Muḥammad is the messenger of Allah). This agrees with the Qur’ānic expression, “Your God is One God; there is no God save Him, the Beneficent, the Merciful.” (Surah 2:163, MMP) This thought was stated 2,000 years earlier with the ancient call to Israel: “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.” (Deuteronomy 6:4) Jesus repeated this foremost command, which is recorded at Mark 12:29, about 600 years before Muḥammad, and nowhere did Jesus claim to be God or to be equal to Him.—Mark 13:32; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:28.

    26 Regarding God’s uniqueness, the Qur’ān states: “So believe in God and His apostles. Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: it will be better for you: for God is One God.” (Surah 4:171, AYA) However, we should note that true Christianity does not teach a Trinity. That is a doctrine of pagan origin introduced by apostates of Christendom after the death of Christ and the apostles.—See Chapter 11.

    Soul, Resurrection, Paradise, and Hellfire

    27 Islām teaches that man has a soul that goes on to a hereafter. The Qur’ān states: “Allah receiveth (men’s) souls at the time of their death, and that (soul) which dieth not (yet) in its sleep. He keepeth that (soul) for which He hath ordained death.” (Surah 39:42, MMP) At the same time, surah 75 is entirely devoted to “Qiyāmat, or the Resurrection” (AYA), or “The Rising of the Dead” (MMP). In part it says: “I do call to witness the Resurrection Day . . . Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones? . . . He questions: ‘When is the Day of Resurrection?’ . . . Has not He [Allāh] the power to give life to the dead?”—Surah 75:1, 3, 6, 40, AYA.

    28 According to the Qur’ān, the soul can have different destinies, which can be either a heavenly garden of paradise or the punishment of a burning hell. As the Qur’ān states: “They ask: When is the Day of Judgement? (It is) the day when they will be tormented at the Fire, (and it will be said unto them): Taste your torment (which ye inflicted).” (Surah 51:12-14, MMP) “For them [the sinners] is torment in the life of the world, and verily the doom of the Hereafter is more painful, and they have no defender from Allah.” (Surah 13:34, MMP) The question is asked: “And what will explain to thee what this is? (It is) a Fire blazing fiercely!” (Surah 101:10, 11, AYA) This dire fate is described in detail: “Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.” (Surah 4:56, MMP) A further description states: “Lo! hell lurketh in ambush . . . They will abide therein for ages. Therein taste they neither coolness nor (any) drink save boiling water and a paralysing cold.”—Surah 78:21, 23-25, MMP.

    29 Muslims believe that a dead person’s soul goes to the Barzakh, or “Partition,” “the place or state in which people will be after death and before Judgment.” (Surah 23:99, 100, AYA, footnote) The soul is conscious there experiencing what is termed the “Chastisement of the Tomb” if the person had been wicked, or enjoying happiness if he had been faithful. But the faithful ones must also experience some torment because of their few sins while alive. On the judgment day, each faces his eternal destiny, which ends that intermediate state.

    30 In contrast, the righteous are promised heavenly gardens of paradise: “And as for those who believe and do good works, We shall make them enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow to dwell therein for ever.” (Surah 4:57, MMP) “On that day the dwellers of Paradise shall think of nothing but their bliss. Together with their wives, they shall recline in shady groves upon soft couches.” (Surah 36:55, 56, NJD) “Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): ‘My servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth.’” The footnote to this surah refers the reader to Psalm 25:13 and 37:11, 29, as well as to the words of Jesus at Matthew 5:5. (Surah 21:105, AYA) The reference to wives now makes us turn to another question.

    Monogamy or Polygamy?

    31 Is polygamy the rule among Muslims? While the Qur’ān permits polygamy, many Muslims have only one wife. Because of the numerous widows that were left after costly battles, the Qur’ān made room for polygamy: “And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess.” (Surah 4:3, MMP) A biography of Muḥammad by Ibn-Hishām mentions that Muḥammad married a wealthy widow, Khadījah, 15 years his senior. After her death he married many women. When he died he left nine widows.

    32 Another form of marriage in Islām is called mut‛ah. It is defined as “a special contract concluded between a man and a woman through offer and acceptance of marriage for a limited period and with a specified dowry like the contract for permanent marriage.” (Islamuna, by Muṣṭafā al-Rāfi‛ī) The Sunnīs call it a marriage for pleasure, and the Shī‛ah, a marriage to be terminated in a specific period. States the same source: “The children [of such marriages] are legitimate and have the same rights as the children of a permanent marriage.” Apparently this form of temporary marriage was practiced in Muḥammad’s day, and he allowed it. Sunnīs insist that it was prohibited later, while the Imāmīs, the largest Shī‛ite group, believe that it is still in effect. In fact, many practice it, especially when a man is absent from his wife for a long period of time.


     
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  13. Cheap SEO Services

    Cheap SEO Services <------DoFollow Backlinks

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    #73
    and this bit too! 20,000 characters max limit prevented me from posting it:


    Islām and Daily Life

    33 Islām involves five pillars, or principal obligations, and six basic beliefs. (See boxes, pages 296, 303.) One of the obligations is that the devout Muslim turn to Mecca five times a day in prayer (ṣalāt). On the Muslim sabbath (Friday), the men flock to the mosque for prayer when they hear the haunting call of the muezzin from the minaret of the mosque. Nowadays many mosques play a recording rather than have a live voice give the call.

    34 The mosque (Arabic, masjid) is the Muslim place of worship, described by King Fahd Bin Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia as “the cornerstone for the call to God.” He defined the mosque as “a place of prayer, study, legal and judicial activities, consultation, preaching, guidance, education and preparation. . . . The mosque is the heart of Muslim society.” These places of worship are now found all over the world. One of the most famous in history is the Mezquita (Mosque) of Córdoba, Spain, which for centuries was the largest in the world. Its central portion is now occupied by a Catholic cathedral.

    Conflict With and Within Christendom

    35 Beginning in the seventh century, Islām spread westward into North Africa, eastward to Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh, and down to Indonesia. As it did so, it entered into conflict with a militant Catholic Church, which organized Crusades to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims. In 1492 Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand of Spain completed the Catholic reconquest of Spain. Muslims and Jews had to convert or be expelled from Spain. The mutual tolerance that had existed under Muslim rule in Spain later evaporated under the influence of the Catholic Inquisition. However, Islām survived and in the 20th century has experienced resurgence and great growth.

    36 While Islām was expanding, the Catholic Church was going through its own turmoil, trying to keep unity in its ranks. But two powerful influences were about to burst on the scene, and they would shatter even further the monolithic image of that church. They were the printing press and the Bible in the language of the people. Our next chapter will discuss Christendom’s further fragmentation under those and other influences.
     
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  14. EGoldstein

    EGoldstein Banned

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    #74
    Brother, you have forgotten the six days war. All the countries including Jordan who acted with cowardice got a thrashing from Israel.

    Even if Israel gets annihilated by Iran, half of your muslim countries are off the map.
     
    EGoldstein, Aug 15, 2006 IP
  15. Arasp

    Arasp Well-Known Member

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    #75
    Today everything is different.
    In those days Iran could not built a AK47 gun, today Iran is creating Tank, and Missles that can hit London.
     
    Arasp, Aug 15, 2006 IP
  16. sebastya

    sebastya Well-Known Member

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    #76
    http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-03/2006-03-18-voa7.cfm?CFID=36853182&CFTOKEN=81418763

    Afghan Man Faces Execution After Converting to Christianity
    By Benjamin Sand
    Kabul
    18 March 2006


    An Afghan man who recently admitted he converted to Christianity faces the death penalty under the country's strict Islamic legal system. The trial is a critical test of Afghanistan's new constitution and democratic government.

    The case is attracting widespread attention in Afghanistan, where local media are closely monitoring the landmark proceedings.

    Abdul Rahman, 40, was arrested last month, accused of converting to Christianity.

    Under Afghanistan's new constitution, minority religious rights are protected but Muslims are still subject to strict Islamic laws.

    And so, officially, Muslim-born Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and not for practicing Christianity.

    Appearing in court earlier this week Rahman insisted he should not be considered an infidel, but admitted he is a Christian.

    He says he still believes in the almighty Allah, but cannot say for sure who God really is. "I am," he says, "a Christian and I believe in Jesus Christ."

    Rahman reportedly converted more than 16 years ago after spending time working in Germany.

    Officials say his family, who remain observant Muslims, turned him over to the authorities.

    On Thursday the prosecution told the court Rahman has rejected numerous offers to embrace Islam.

    Prosecuting attorney Abdul Wasi told the judge that the punishment should fit the crime.

    He says Rahman is a traitor to Islam and is like a cancer inside Afghanistan. Under Islamic law and under the Afghan constitution, he says, the defendant should be executed.


    The court has ordered a delay in the proceedings to give Rahman time to hire an attorney.

    Under Afghan law, once a verdict is given, the case can be appealed twice to higher courts.

    This is the first case in which the defendant has admitted to converting and is refusing to back down, even while facing the death penalty.

    If convicted, the case could ultimately force President Hamid Karzai's direct intervention.

    The president would have to sign the papers authorizing Rahman's execution, a move that could jeopardize Mr. Karzai's standing with human rights groups and Western governments.

    So far, President Karzai has not commented on the case.

    But political analysts here in Kabul say he will be under significant pressure from the country's hard-line religious groups to make an example of Rahman.
     
    sebastya, Aug 15, 2006 IP
  17. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #77
    And, of course, nuclear weapons ;)

    Can't imagine why islamic countries would want to wipe Israel off the map. Jews are welcome across the middle east, right?
     
    GTech, Aug 15, 2006 IP
  18. Arnie

    Arnie Well-Known Member

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    #78
    No need to, its medivial again, there are already many missiles living. :D
     
    Arnie, Aug 15, 2006 IP
  19. DiscussionPeace

    DiscussionPeace Banned

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    #79
    Question again to all muslims here. (Only isfahanian ansfered yes, but I don't know if he is a muslim)

    Is this from the Quran?

    4 Women: ...4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, ....


    Can anyone from the muslims here answer this question? Just answer with Yes or No.
    dsp
    Thanks.
     
    DiscussionPeace, Aug 15, 2006 IP
    GTech likes this.
  20. DiscussionPeace

    DiscussionPeace Banned

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    #80
    Ok I have one unanswered question from the muslims. (It's been a couple of days now and no one from the muslims seems to be willing to answer it).

    Second question to all muslims:

    2. Is the content in the "Hadith" true?
     
    DiscussionPeace, Aug 15, 2006 IP