Is there a single true Christian?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by qwestcommunications, Jun 19, 2007.

  1. #1
    According to the bible, a Christian isn't allowed to consume alcohol of any kind, eat pork, etc. Yet, no matter how devout a Christian seems to be, they seem to be commiting sin of some kind. I haven't come across a single Christian that truly lives by their book. Even in churches, you get men of "faith" playing hanky panky with little boys.

    What do you think?

    By the way, I sincerely apologize to any Christian that might get upset.
     
    qwestcommunications, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  2. krakjoe

    krakjoe Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Chrisitans will probably say something like thier religion has evolved over the ages to incorporate a modern lifestyle ( except for the pedo thing, they'll deny that, or give it the "small minority" excuse ), muslims will probably say that Christianity isn't really a true religion.

    The actual answer is, it's impossible to live by the word of men that walked the earth 2000 years ago, and no in that sense there is not.
     
    krakjoe, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  3. demosfen

    demosfen Peon

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    #3
    Good question. I know of one guy who does, he runs this radio program - http://georgegordon.org/Radio_Archives.htm#Archives

    It's funny how Jews seem to follow Bible closer than anyone who goes to church (no pork, no work on Saturdays, circumcision, etc.) I wonder if Talmud is some sort of modified version of Bible?
     
    demosfen, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  4. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #4
    Where did you read that Christians can't eat pork or drink any alcohol, etc... Also, at what point have you met a perfect "anything" whether it be muslim, Christian, Jew, atheist, buddhist or whatever? You are far from perfect, obvious by the fact you don't even know what you are asking about.

    P.S. hanky panky with little boys? isn't that a mohamad thing? or a catholic priest thing? Or an islamic heaven thing? oh, never mind you don't even have a clue to what you asked in the first part. LOL
     
    debunked, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  5. qwestcommunications

    qwestcommunications Notable Member

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    #5
    Since eating pork and alcohol is considered a sin in the Jewish religion, surely it will follow that christianity (many claim it to be descendent of Judaism) should also abhor such sins.
     
    qwestcommunications, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  6. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #6
    Like I said before you are totally clueless to what being a Christian is.

    I am not a Jew. I am a gentile. If you would read the Bible for yourself you may find that most everything taught to you has been wrong.

    Jesus was a Jew and God chose the Jews to be His people set aside for a plan. He sent Jesus to the Jews first then the Gentiles.
     
    debunked, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  7. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

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    #7
    I don't smoke, drink, use drugs, or basically anything wrong in that respect because I view it all as useless. However, I do not subscribe to any religious views about it. I use logical reasons for my abstinence from most of these unsavory acts, and I detest pork for its taste. I don't steal, rob, kill, or commit acts of violence. I have lied a few times, but I doubt there is anyone who can say they have never lied once in their life.

    I honor my word, and I do not break promises. However, I believe modern religion is foolish, arcane, and self destructive to the human race as a whole. Bunch of lunacy if you ask me, thought police be damned.
     
    Jackuul, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  8. qwestcommunications

    qwestcommunications Notable Member

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    #8
    That doesn't answer the difference between the two faiths though, does it? Why is it certain acts sinful in Jaduaism such as eating pork but perfectly legitimate in christianity?
     
    qwestcommunications, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  9. lpxxfaintxx

    lpxxfaintxx Peon

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    #9
    In the bible, it said that no one was perfect... except Jesus.
     
    lpxxfaintxx, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  10. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #10
    There is soooooo much you don't know. Maybe try reading the book you try so hard to discredit.....
     
    debunked, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  11. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #11
    The prohibition on eating pork was given to the Jews under the Mosaic Law, there never has been a prohibition on alcohol, only on drunkenness.
    When Jesus formed the Christian Congregation he 'fulfilled the law' - in other words he ended the Mosaic Law and its regulations and with it ended the prohibition on eating pork etc...
    "So the law was put in charge of us until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." (Galations 3:24,25)

    So for a christian today it is perfectly acceptable to drink alcohol within reason, Paul in writing to Timothy said, "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." (1 Timothy 5:23)
    Similarly a Christian is free to eat pork or any of the other foods restricted under the Mosaic Law.
    The only exception to that is in respect to the use of blood, which has been condemned throughout the bible, from before the Mosaic Law was given, in instructions given to Noah ...
    "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it" (Genesis 9:4), in the Mosaic Law ...
    "But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat." (Deuteronomy 12:23) and after the Mosaic Law ...
    It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things." (Acts 15:28,29)
     
    grandad, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  12. qwestcommunications

    qwestcommunications Notable Member

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    #12
    Why would eating pork be disallowed under Judaism(surely disallowed by God for a reason) and than allowed by the Same God under a new religion. That does not make much sense to me .
     
    qwestcommunications, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  13. demosfen

    demosfen Peon

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    #13
    Like he said, it's in the Bible... You tell him to read the Bible, but you don't even know that according to Bible you can't eat pork...
     
    demosfen, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  14. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #14
    There are many things in the bible that are not immediately easy to understand but on further investigation most can be understood.
    God gave the Mosaic Law to separate His people from the nations around about them and it also served to provide them with many useful procedures for good health.
    It is not immediately clear why God would not allow the eating of pork, (some suggest that it may have been to avoid the contamination of parasites that often infested pork, others suggest it could be due to the prevelance of the pig in pagan worship).
    Whatever the reason, Christ's arrival ended the Mosaic Law and with it the prohibition on eating pork, so a Christian today is free to eat pork.
     
    grandad, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  15. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #15
    No it isn't disallowed for Christians anywhere in the Bible. So, you also should read it, because you know not what you say.
     
    debunked, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  16. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #16
    Well, I think you can take it a bit further by saying that the Christian was never under the Mosaic Law -unless that Christian was first a Jew.
     
    debunked, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  17. Jim4767

    Jim4767 Prominent Member

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    #17
    In the Gospels, Jesus specifically declared all foods to be "clean". That Old Testament precept of the Law given to Moses is not applicable to New Testament Christians, nor are numerous other portions of the Mosaic Law — such as temple worship, animal sacrifice, and the Aaronic priesthood, to name a few.
     
    Jim4767, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  18. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #18
    Being a Gentile, you should know that the message of Jesus (PBUH) was not for you.
    He said:
    Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not

    And so is this mentioned in the Quran:
    [3:49] As a messenger to the Children of Israel: "I come to you with a sign from your Lord - I create for you from clay the shape of a bird, then I blow into it, and it becomes a live bird by GOD's leave. I restore vision to the blind, heal the leprous, and I revive the dead by GOD's leave. I can tell you what you eat, and what you store in your homes. This should be a proof for you, if you are believers.
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  19. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #19
    Whilst that is true, Jesus himself spoke with non-Jews, for example the Samaritan woman at the well, (John 4). He also told his followers that they would spread the Good News throughout the earth, to all peoples, " Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:19,20)

    It was the Apostle Peter who was charged with the commission to start preaching to the non-Jews after being given a vision by God of 'unclean' foods. From that time onward the Gentile nations received the Good News and the numbers of Christians increased dramatically.
    God dealt with the Jews first, to provide a means of salvation to His once chosen people, before he opened up the way to others ...

    "About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
    "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."
    The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
    This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
    While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate.
    They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.
    While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them."

    Peter went down and said to the men, "I'm the one you're looking for. Why have you come?"
    The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to have you come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say." Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

    The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa went along. The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."
    Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?"

    Cornelius answered: "Four days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me and said, 'Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.' So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us."

    Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

    "We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.
    " (Acts 10:9-40)
     
    grandad, Jun 19, 2007 IP
  20. Ahmad_Malik

    Ahmad_Malik Peon

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    #20
    Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not

    Matthew 28:19,20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

    Don't these two contradict then?
     
    Ahmad_Malik, Jun 19, 2007 IP