Is Obama A Natural Born Citizen?

I didn't ask you what you know. I asked you what you believe.

You do know what you believe don't you? Now again.....

Do you believe the photo taken of Barack Obama's birth certificate and posted on their website was fake? YES or NO.

Come on it's not hard. You seem to have an opinion on everything except when it comes to the simple question of whether you believe the photo is real or not? You tried to school every one of us webmasters on the fact that a photo can be photo shopped. But you don't even know enough to form an opinion?

Yes or no? It's really easy.

 

That was some fishy hard to follow stuff, but I would dare say my photoshopped Birth Certificate would stand up in court better than that crap. Thanks for the link I guess.

 

What you are asking me to do is assume, guess, pick a side. And i wont. All i can tell you is that there is a man running for the highest rank in our country, who is being asked to produce his birth certificate, and he has flat out REFUSED. All im asking for is further investigation of his citizenship.

I dont know if its real, and don't care. The fact is he refuses to do what all Americans have to do in order to be employed, and this raises a level of suspicion with me

 

Ok then let's play your game....

The only thing I can get you to actually admit you believe is that you believe there needs to be an investigation. Is that correct?

Now if you believe there needs to be an investigation. If you truly believe that. Then would it be fair of me to say that you DO NOT believe the birth certificate shown here is real?

Because if you DID believe it was real there would be no reason for an investigation would there?

But it's NOT real right? Because you want there to be an investigation.

This is not me picking on you. This is me FORCING you to be intellectually honest by answering a direct question yes or no.

 

I actually do not own my original Birth Certificate anymore. All I can ever provide is a copy from the state. It has been good enough for everyone so far. And what about that blogger on a pro Hillary site that dug up the birth announcement from 1961 in the Honolulu Advertiser? And what about that little part about his mother being a US citizen at the time of his birth and that making him a US citizen regardless of where she popped him out at? Doesn't that count for anything or is all that just smoke and mirrors? I guess I can read the other 33 pages of this thread and see if you have answered any of that...

 

I'm having trouble believing that you're being driven by principle and not by your seeming hatred for Obama because of a difference on political issues like abortion.

 

I'm glad your playing a game, i hear kids like that sorta thing. I on the other hand am not. I am simply not going to say i believe something when i don't know it for fact. I suspect it could be. Its possible. Maybe. The fact that he would not produce it to a court of law, causes me to question it. Yet i CAN NOT say for fact, that its not real, i don't know.

The birth certificate is only a portion of the evidence leading me to believe an investigation should be held.

You do realize that there were two different birth certificates don't you? Both of them claim to be Obamas. One was on factcheck and another on obamas site "fightingthesmears" which i believe is not longer online.

You can look it up on youtube if you like, but the first BC posted on Obamas site was a fake. And i will say that i believe it was a fake because Ive seen multiple videos dissecting it and pointing out the flaws.

Not to mention the recordings of Sarah Obama stating she was present in Kenya when he was born.

Or the fact Obama and his sister cant agree on a birthplace.

Or that he has an aunt living here illegal as well, so obviously the family has familiarity with illegally crossing borders.

There is far more evidence suggesting a problem with his citizenship, then there is stating he is legit.

I'm glad you think you have me all figured out. Im glad you can get in my mind and think that you know what i believe or not. The fact is i choose not to believe anything until i see evidence. What i see in this case is evidence that totally warrants further investigation.

By the way i don't feel picked on, nor will you force me to do anything.

 

Let me make something clear here simplyg123.

I am under no delusion that I am going to change your postion on this discussion. I am merely trying to show anyone that may read this thread that even the people trying to say the birth certificate is fake don't even believe it's fake.

Now your name is simply. And it fits because you are a simple guy. You simply fell for one of the many false character attempts leveled at Barack Obama during the campaign.

But the sad fact here... is that even the people who started this know it's ridiculous and have moved on because it no longer serves any purpose. It was only intended to get people to have doubts about Obama during the campaign. Now the campaign is over and the unfortunate side effect of it is the people they suckered into believing this nonsense didn't get that and are still believing it. I feel for you guys, I really do.

Why do you think the Republican party, any of the conservative 527 group with their MILLIONS in funding, or even John McCain's campaign never even whispered this?

My post above addresses this but thanks.

I now know you do not even possess the intellectual capacity to know what you believe. (or at least not the courage to say it)

No it's not. you can't hold up the birth certificate as part of the reason why you believe there needs to be an investigation. You don't even have an opinion on it. Remember?

So they were both fake?

Hmm... you miraculously have an opinion suddenly???

Wow so would you say the LACK of posts on your wacko conservative blogs dissecting this birth certificate makes you believe this one is real?

No?

You are predisposed to believe that video recording of Barack's grandmother that doesn't actually have any video and doesn't have audio of her saying it?

Straw grasping is hilarious.

From this point forward you are not allowed to use the word evidence without actually showing any evidence.

Thank you.

Umm... you're confused again.... I ASKED you what you believe. You just didn't have the courage to say it.

YOU JUST SAW EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE THAT YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF BY SAYING IT'S FAKE.

What does that say about you and your opinion?

Glad to hear it simple guy.

Then you didn't get my point.

My whole point was to point out that there are people who are against Obama just for the sake of being against him just as there are people for him just for the sake of being for him.

Some of you against him have your own reasons and you articulate them effectively. The others... the taggers on without any real ideas of their own... are the ones I was addressing with that post.

Please remember that Republicans were fawning over Sarah Palin as the savior of the party after she was selected. That is before you found out that in terms of her knowledge of national level politics she's mentally handicapped.

ROFL yeah, I'm sure you put me on ignore

Hey who knows perhaps you did it because I made you look like a complete jackass in this thread where you tried to use numbers that I debunked then went back and admitted even you didn't believe they were plausible. You only intended to "pass them on as a tidbit for debate".

I guess when I asked you why the hell you thought they were relevant, well.... that's the part where you reached for the ignore button. Having no answer will do that to some it seems

Wait sorry, am I reading to much into what you're saying? Please by all means explain then how your attempt to hop on the Obama bashing bandwagon with numbers that don't even make sense was REALLY just an attempt to "add a tidbit to the debate".

Looking forward to your reply

 

you may be right, but im not saying the birth certificate is fake, im saying there is enough evidence to warrant an investigation of President Elect Barack Hussein Obama's citizenship.

The only one causing me to doubt Obama is Obama. His failure to produce a legal document, when ordered by the court. Thats why i doubt. Like i have told you and others, time and again, if he produces the document, this would have never become an issue. But to this day he still refuses.

This may never amount to anything, that wouldnt surprise me at all, but thats not going to cause me to change my stance on the issue. He is to be president of our country, we should not have any doubt on who he is, and we should have every right to question who he is.

 

Fair enough. And I should have every right to prove you wrong at every turn and watch you backpedal

See, it's all good

EDIT: P.S. about this......:

You have been "shut up". I provided you a link to photo proof of the document that you are screaming for in every post you make and your only answer is "i don't know".

 

Look, you keep saying he refused to provide his Birth Certificate when court ordered to do so. I can't seem to find evidence of that. All I can find is a bunch of random blogs that say it and no real source at all. I wouldn't go to court to prove my citizenship either. Especially during a campaign (this was months ago right?) and especially not because some paper pusher stands up and says I am not. He has no grounding to even ask me to provide it and I have no obligation to him to show it. I am pretty damn sure the court agreed didn't it? All that said, I just saw his birth certificate. You have seen it. You say you have seen two of them even. Ya know you can go get two as well right? Just keep the one you have and go down to the Vital Statistics office and get one. It may not look like your other one in every way, and it probably won't have baby footprints on it, but it will be 100% legit.
BTW I have a relative who takes drugs. Does that make me a criminal? Am I an illegal immigrant if my second cousin is?

 

Nice, gotta love those personal attacks, take it easey though they didnt go to well with the last guy that used them. You seem to be getting a bit hostile there, sorry if i don't fall for your pathetic attempt of a trap.

The fact that Obama refuses to present it to the court, does in fact allow me to use it as evidence.

can you not read? I said i believe one to be fake

many opinions, many suspicions, many possibilities, but only Obama and his family knows the truth.

because i am a graphic designer and i know photoshop when i see it.

to my understanding there are sworn affidavits as well

In comparison to your evidence? Oh wait...you have none.

truth hurts doesn't it

yes i lack the courage to assume in a factual discussion. I will only state what i believe, if i have reason to believe it. As far as his BC goes, i don't know for certain, all i know is the man wont show it to the court...and why not?

if i knew it was fake id say it was, i SUSPECT that is fake, but KNOW, is a strong statement that I'm not prepared to make. This is why i would like to see a formal investigation, then i can KNOW.

he presented to an organization he used to belong to, not a court. I said to shut me up he needed to present it to the right people, not his buddies.

 

It's not a trap. It's a yes or no question that you can't answer.

You're making a lot of confident sounding posts for a person who doesn't know the difference between what they KNOW, and what they BELIEVE.

If a yes or no question is a "trap" for you..... well, sorry.

You can hide behind calling it a personal attack all you like but I'll say it again.... you do not possess the intellectual capacity to know what you believe.

If you believe the birth certificate is fake, you have an argument to make. If you don't then you don't.

 

not a trap? Did you not state yourself that .....

and you accomplish this how? By getting me to say i dont believe its fake.

Sorry, i don't know if its fake or not, I suspect that it may be because the man fails to produce it. You know its not that hard to understand.

Its not a simple yes or know question, because the document is not being produced to the right authorities. I cant say yes, and i cant say no, i can only say at this time i dont know.

 

I think you made the point that simplyg is getting at but he'll never be satisfied until someone other than us says it

The reason simplyg and I are going around in circles is because we're making 2 separate arguments. I don't believe that he really has any doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii like he says he was. Which is the argument I was makign and just trying to get him to admit it.

He has just backpedaled all the way from believing the conspiracy theory down to just wanting to know why Obama didn't provide the BC to the court. The answer, IMO is two fold. 1) Because he didn't have to (as you have stated). And 2) Because Obama himself had NOTHING to do with the trial. His lawyers handled it while Obama was dealing with issues of actual substance on the campaign trail.

So the argument that this has anything to do with Obama's character has always been laughable to me. He didn't even make the decision. WE probably know more about this case than he does. This was a nuisance lawsuit. His lawyers handled it. End of story.

And the issue of me pushing the birth certificate issue is because we have proof, validated by the issuing authority, and posted on the web for the world to see. So forcing people to admit that even they know it's real makes all the other arguments inconsequential. Which is my overall point.

 

Press Release 11-07-08: US Supreme Court awaits response to Berg Writ of Certiorari from Obama, DNC and co-defendants
Saturday, 08 November 2008 04:23 administrator Main - News For Immediate Release: - 11/07/08

U. S. SUPREME COURT AWAITS RESPONSE TO
BERG'S WRIT OF CERTIORARI
FROM OBAMA, DNC and Co-DEFENDANTS
(Contact information and PDF at end)

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 11/07/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States filed a Writ of Certiorari in the United States Supreme Court on October 30, 2008, requesting review of the United States District Court, Eastern District of Pennsylvania, Judge Surrick’s Dismissal of Philip J. Berg’s lawsuit against Barack H. Obama, Jr., the DNC and the other co-Defendants. Accordingly, the U. S. Supreme Court has set dates in which Barack Obama, the DNC and all co-Defendants are to respond to the Writ, which is on or before December 1, 2008.

Mr. Berg remarked today, “I look forward to receiving Defendant Obama's response to the Writ and am hopeful the U. S. Supreme Court will review Berg v. Obama. I believe Mr. Obama is not a constitutionally-qualified natural-born citizen and is ineligible to assume the office of President of the United States.”

Mr. Berg’s case, Berg vs. Obama was dismissed from the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, Docket # 08-cv-4083 for lack of standing. Mr. Berg filed a Writ of Certiorari for review of the case and an injunction to stay the election pending review. Justice Souter denied the injunction. It is expected that the Court will decide whether or not to review Berg v. Obama after the Defendants file their response, and Mr. Berg has replied to the Defendant’s response.

The Defendants' response is due by December 1st and Mr. Berg's reply will be submitted thereafter.

# # #

http://obamacrimes.com/attachments/... Berg writ of certiorari from obama et al.pdf

1) The Obama birth certificate that was posted on the web is a computer printed abridged certificate.

Obama has not produced the vault copy (original typed/hand written) birth certificate that contains all the details of birth including the attending physician and the hospital where you were born... all containing collaborating circumstances that are verifiable.

Due to a loophole in Hawaii Law, birth certificates may be obtained for foreign born children of Hawaii residents.

2) "If in fact Obama was born in Kenya, the laws on the books in the United States at the time of his birth stated if a child is born abroad and one parent was a U.S. Citizen, which would have been his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's mother would have had to live ten (10) years in the United States, five (5) of which were after the age of fourteen (14). At the time of Obama's birth, his mother was only eighteen (18) and therefore did not meet the residency requirements under the law to give her son (Obama) U.S. Citizenship much less the status of 'natural born.'"

 

LOL - Sometimes, Bogart, I do wonder.....as with the months of calling Obama an Islamic terrorist plant, by cutting and pasting from DebbieSchlussel.com, do you believe simply repeating information will somehow magically morph this into something else?

Yes, Bogart - we know Berg has filed a Petition for Writ of Certiorari. It isn't clear that it even requires a response, or a reply brief, and I'll go so far as to say the Court won't do a damn thing with this whackjob's Petition but reject it summarily. Once again:

I reprint this crap because sometimes I really do feel you're posts smack of an auto-responder, Bogart. You've posted nothing new - it's known the whackjob filed a Petition for Writ of Certiorari - and nothing new will result by your posting a press release from the whackjob's website.

Ridiculous. Bush was trashed for the last several years over his policies. What do we get to look forward to from guys like Bogart and Mia - 8 years of bitching over the size of Obama's ears?

 

Just ask him what his point is. He won't post in this thread for DAYS when you do that.

Or ask him if he actually believes the nonsense he's spewing.

I shall now quote myself or truth.

 

Lets see what the Supreme Court does. If Obama was born in Hawaii, he has nothing to worry about.

It's possible that Obama doesn't know where he was born.

 

LOL - yep, as the days of "Obama the Islamic terrorist plant" shows, it's true he will go away for several days...but he always comes back with the same cut and pastes.....always comes back....always comes back...always comes back....

I wouldn't mind if Bogart had something real, or even a smear that at least changes from time to time, for interest's sake - but I just find this bizarre...to cut and paste nothing new, an issue that has been dealt with for pages, now - I find that really odd.

Bogart - you do understand what I mean when I say that under a Petition of Writ for Certioari, the Supreme Court is not a tryer of fact - not a trial court - but a reviewing body of lower court's rulings? And that the Court is extremely stringent on what it does allow under a Writ of Certiorari?

I've posted this several times. Please specifically show where you believe the Berg appellate whine falls: