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Is Obama A Natural Born Citizen?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by simplyg123, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #521
    The people that know for certain are deceased.
    SEMrush
     
    bogart, Nov 5, 2008 IP
    SEMrush
  2. scottmweaver

    scottmweaver Peon

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    #522
    This is a great point and a respectful one at that, but doesn't prove anything except that things can be forged.

    However, back to my previous question -- where was Ann when she birthed Obama? And even if she wasn't on US soil at the time, does that completely eliminate Obama's eligibility?

    Straight from Section 1, Article II of the constitution:

    "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

    Where's the universal definition for "natural born citizen" ?
     
    scottmweaver, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  3. LarryMac

    LarryMac Peon

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    #523
    Has anyone read a story where Barack's Mom even made a trip to kenya, ever?
    If so I would like to read it.
     
    LarryMac, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  4. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #524
    According to Immigration Law at the time Obama would not have be entiltled to automatic citizenship.

    It's more than possible that Ann Durham decided to take a short cut and registered Obama through a 'gray area' of Hawaii law.

    There were a lot of questions on whether John McCain was a 'natural born' citizen. McCain's case is different. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone which was US territory at the time as well as a US Military Zone. Both McCain's parents were also US citizens.
     
    bogart, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  5. scottmweaver

    scottmweaver Peon

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    #525
    Same here.

    Could you cite the source?

    It is technically possible but why would she care?

    Actually, I read about this here. It says:

    John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States,[7] federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."[8] The law that conferred this status took effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born — albeit with retroactive effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.[9]

    So that was pretty much covered. This is different.
     
    scottmweaver, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  6. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #526
    Obama Is A Natural Born PRESIDENT.

    Also for those who want a reality based look at the elections next time around - go to FiveThirtyEight.com - they have pretty much NAILED the popular vote & the electoral college numbers.
     
    Zibblu, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  7. scottmweaver

    scottmweaver Peon

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    #527
    You can't just say someone IS ... you need evidence. Thanks for your input though.
     
    scottmweaver, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  8. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #528
    scottmweaver - what are you talking about? Obama won the Presidency last night. Do you live in a cave? On 1-20-09 Barack Obama will be your new President.

    This is a great time to be an American.
     
    Zibblu, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  9. scottmweaver

    scottmweaver Peon

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    #529
    No, I know -that-. I've been watching for the last three months, eyes glued to the media.

    What I'm saying is, you can't just say someone is qualified to be president. You need proof.

    I voted for Obama, I -want- him to be president and .. most likely, even if he's not qualified but the problem with that is that it's not legal according to the constitution, so it would be a false presidency. If that's the case, it should go to McCain or there should be a re-vote. It would suck BIG-TIME, but it would be the right thing to do.
     
    scottmweaver, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  10. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #530
    BS.

    Only lunatics on the far right wing believe any of that nonsense. You aren't fooling anyone. Give it up.

    You nutcases can whine about some crazy rumor of Obama having not been born in America (even though the State of Hawaii has said it's nothing but nonsense and Obama's birth was announced in two local papers in 1961) for the next four years if you think that's the best use of your time. In fact I invite you to do just that. It will only make you appear even more crazy and not worth listening to.
     
    Zibblu, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  11. scottmweaver

    scottmweaver Peon

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    #531
    I'd be inclined to agree with you 100% if there weren't evidence to the contrary. It's weak evidence, but it should be investigated, no matter how you lean. It's ridiculous to ignore evidence in any debate. You can't just call "BS" and be done with it, or people like OJ might get away with killing their wives.

    Oh wait...
     
    scottmweaver, Nov 5, 2008 IP
    simplyg123 likes this.
  12. simplyg123

    simplyg123 Well-Known Member

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    #532
    Thats what ive been trying to say :(

    There is enough evidence to at least suggest an investigation.
     
    simplyg123, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  13. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #533
    Nonsense. The burden of proof is on those who make such a dubious claim.

    It's like me asking: Can John McCain prove that his father wasn't a Russian spy? Where's the DNA evidence against it?

    No there's not. There is absolutely NO evidence to suggest that Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii and there's EXTREMELY strong evidence that he was, including the state of Hawaii having his original birth certificate and two Hawaii newspapers announcing his birth.
     
    Zibblu, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  14. simplyg123

    simplyg123 Well-Known Member

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    #534
    Thats totally different, there is evidence supporting Obamas questionable citizenship, and none supporting your example claim
     
    simplyg123, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  15. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #535
    NOPE. There's the EXACT SAME amount of evidence for both claims: NONE.

    And there's actually a lot more proof to disprove the claim about Obama (original birth certificate and two announcements in a local paper) then there is to disprove that McCain's father was a Russian spy. There's actually no proof of that. Where's the DNA record to prove it's false? HMM?? WHERE IS IT! I demand it! McCain is a Russian spy!

    ---

    I really recommend that you right wingers keep talking about this "issue" it'll further relegate you to the fringe of American politics. I recommend continuing this intelligent thoughtful discourse over at http://www.freerepublic.com
     
    Zibblu, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  16. simplyg123

    simplyg123 Well-Known Member

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    #536
    Ok what evidence do you have to suggest McCains father is a spy?
     
    simplyg123, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  17. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #537
    NONE. That's the point. The exact same amount of EVIDENCE that Obama wasn't born in America. I hope you know what evidence is. Someone saying this or that isn't evidence. People say all kinds of stuff. Evidence is evidence. Fabricated rumors are fabricated rumors. Big difference.
     
    Zibblu, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  18. scottmweaver

    scottmweaver Peon

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    #538
    It's not like that at all and here's why. As far as I know:

    1. No one has brought that into actual question
    2. That doesn't disqualify him from the presidency (technically)

    First of all, let me restate: I voted for Obama. I think the guy is amazing.

    My point is that this country doesn't work based on people saying "Nonsense," and being done with it. I don't even think this should go so far as to be investigated officially. I just think this forum should be put to bed with something definitive, if possible. That's all. Otherwise, it'll keep coming back up.

    That something isn't "nonsense" or "it isn't."
     
    scottmweaver, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  19. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #539
    WRONG! I just did. I have just as much evidence of this as those who claim Obama wasn't born in America have. NONE.

    You are missing the point here: Someone asking a question doesn't mean that question is worthwhile.

    There are people who question: "Is the earth flat?" Does that make that question valid? Does that mean we now have to spend time disputing this question? No of course not. There's no evidence for it so it can be dismissed immediately as the ravings of a lunatic.

    Similarly we can easily dismiss these claims about Obama's birthplace because there is absolutely no evidence to back up the claims and furthermore there is substantial evidence that Obama was born in America. In fact there's just as much evidence of Obama being born in America as there is that I was born in America (and I bet the same could be said for almost every American born person in this forum.) Actually, I think there's more evidence that Obama was born in America than I was (I was born in Oregon by the way) because there was no birth announcement in the local papers where I was born.

    Ask yourself: Using the insane standards that have been setup: How many people do you know that can prove they were born in America?

    This is what's so sad. So many people lack basic reasoning abilities. Anyone with basic reasoning abilities knows that this claim about Obama is ridiculous and without any merit.

    As far as "putting it to bed" - I don't see how it could be put to bed any further than it was by the state of Hawaii officially saying they have the original birth certificate and the fact that his birth was announced in two local papers. Again, that's more proof than many of the people in this forum have that they were born in America.

    How much proof do you have that you were born in America?
     
    Zibblu, Nov 5, 2008 IP
  20. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #540
    Zibblu,

    I went round and round with simplyg123 until even he finally admitted he has NO PROOF of his claim. Only his belief.

    It's really simple, challenge him to provide actual EVIDENCE that Obama is not a U.S. citizen. Then allow him to challenge you to provide evidence.... All he will try to do is disprove your evidence without actually having any of his own.
     
    GeorgeB., Nov 5, 2008 IP
    micksss likes this.