1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

Is niche really it for directories?

Discussion in 'Directories' started by swedal, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. mikey1090

    mikey1090 Moderator Staff

    Messages:
    15,869
    Likes Received:
    1,055
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Digital Goods:
    2
    #41
    Exactly. Thats where I was heading.

    On a general directory can you aim affiliate banners at visitors? No....because your audience is so mixed it would never convert.
     
    mikey1090, Jul 8, 2008 IP
  2. DownUnder

    DownUnder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    152
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    #42
    ? Mike a general statement and one i wont buy.

    it might be easier for the novice using a niche to get a higher CTR and in that come to the conclusion that a niche performs better.

    and i will agree a good niche should do better but the statement above saying NO probably applies as mentioned to the novice, the qbc, and those who do little work or have little to no understanding of what they are doing.
     
    DownUnder, Jul 8, 2008 IP
  3. centime

    centime Peon

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #43
    Actually, there is an immense amount of information about how completely useless banners on general sites of any kind are as far as converting into direct sales is concerned.

    Some of us have been using CJ banners on sites that generate fair bit of traffic , non -webmaster traffic and from observing the CJ statistics, one gets absurd results like 1 $10 sale per 100,000 page views or 30,000 unique visitors. The results with Google adsense are just as appalling.

    However, when a similar level of traffic is funnelled through a tightly focussed niche site, the results can be quite remarkable.

    However, submissions to niche directories , are remarkably low compared to what they should be. Webmasters do seem to focus on the 'fame' of the directory rather than relevance, niche
     
    centime, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  4. imi_99

    imi_99 Peon

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    4
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #44
    I think niche directory is best according to me experience. It will give you both targeted traffic and seo benifit.
     
    imi_99, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  5. Event_King

    Event_King Guest

    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    58
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #45
    Niche directories are tougher to make money from for 2 main reasons. Anyone can set up and run a general directory, it takes no skill, no special knowledge and a bit of cash. I could get hold of a script, shell out £1000 on set-up costs, another £2k on promotion and be making good money in less than 2 months - but there's no challenge in that, and it's boring

    Niche websites are tightly focussed and attract a smaller target group. This group doesn't want junk traffic, for the junk won't buy, the niche buyers hope to find information faster, and won't have time to 'surf', therefore they won't hit general directories as it's the wrong information resource anyway.

    People are getting used to using hubs and niche sites more and more, these sites are familiar now, and popular eg: one niche site is PopBitch and very trafficked, been in the news a few times too, and not forgetting personal worship sites (britney spears etc) have hit the press, so the niche site is the way forward now. If webmasters can start a hub in something they have real industry experience in, and do that in the right way, then it might be a good idea. Trouble is there's too many G directories, and it doesn't work anymore, can't take them any further than charging for listings, but how boring is that, I mean doesn't anyone one to build something great to be proud of?

    There are 2 ways to do this:

    • Find a real bitch of a problem, and invent a solution.
    • Set up a service that's totally unique - that nobody else has done.


    Webmaster tip: Stay away from failed ideas.
     
    Event_King, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  6. swedal

    swedal Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,768
    Likes Received:
    427
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    230
    #46
    So would it stand to reason then with a niche directory that review fees should either be very low or offer a free listing option to gain traffic with a focus on other areas for any kind of revenue to support it?
     
    swedal, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  7. Event_King

    Event_King Guest

    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    58
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #47
    The hardest part of this is the industry knowledge. You need to know what you're talking about, you'll get tons of questions fired at you from within whatever industry you pursue. People will automatically doubt you, and its worse as the doubts are from paying customers.

    Then you got to get the thing filled, this will take you years to do (even if you offer free listings), I don't advise you do this with the intent of making money, I say this because chances are you won't come up with the perfect idea for a site, and advertisers will only pay early, if the concept is unique.

    Paying advertisers will demand much - perhaps more than you're willing to give or sacrifice in exchange for ultimate profits long-term. Niche sites have their own unique problems from G directories and are not the same. I wouldn't advise a niche directory as it's hell on earth dealing with the shit is causes me, instead a website that helps people do something, but doesn't provide information. Publishing is a bugger of an industry, time-consuming, very low income and heavy powerful rivals snapping at your heels.

    Come on nobody wants that crap, there are easier things to do. I would suggest a Parkatmyhouse.com type of idea, (obviously not parking as it's been done) but a useful service. Some shopping service maybe, I dunno - you have to come up with the ideas.
     
    Event_King, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  8. JamieG

    JamieG Banned

    Messages:
    1,827
    Likes Received:
    126
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #48
    Knowledge is an advantage for certain, but it isn't vital as you can learn along the way. The reason I say that is because a directory is just that, if its a niche its a mini directory so all the knowledge your ever going to need is to remain relevant and never deviate regardless of the temptation to do so.
     
    JamieG, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  9. swedal

    swedal Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,768
    Likes Received:
    427
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    230
    #49
    I think you hit on a key point to any niche and that is knowing your niche.
     
    swedal, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  10. centime

    centime Peon

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #50
    I really don't know. however, my current intention is to experiment , One problem with free submissions and paid submissions is duplicate content. I do now believe that all submissions need to be re written, and I am not keen on having to wade through a ton of inadequate sites to find the 1 or 2 that can be listed

    Anyway, my interest in directories no longer lies in submission fees. The income I have derived from it has always been derisory, so I ain't gonna miss it so much

     
    centime, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  11. JamieG

    JamieG Banned

    Messages:
    1,827
    Likes Received:
    126
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #51
    Yes, absolutely. I have project I can call my very own, its a niche and one that hasn't been touched. I'll be offering free links and adding free content until its pretty full, then I'll go for the paying customers. It will take a couple of years but the internet is going nowhere. :)
     
    JamieG, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  12. DownUnder

    DownUnder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    152
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    #52
    Could only agree as well, but i am finding some strange "experts" i had a site covering xyz in oz, yet the owner lived on the other side of the globe and really had no idea about xyz and only local knowledge could see through the copy paste and regenerated content.

    It is getting harder to find real sites with real people with real knowledge over and above i will make a niche then just collect data to fill it, add my revenue ads and make my money typw sites.
     
    DownUnder, Jul 9, 2008 IP
  13. centime

    centime Peon

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    46
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #53
    Indeed DownUnder, it is true that the internet is full of that, and even in this thread we are talking about niche directories without qualifying that talk with any declaration of specialist knowledge of our intended niches.

    The fact is , for the majority of us, a niche directory or any directory is simply a collection of hyperlinks, hyperlinks that just happen to cover one particular industry.

    Is that the right path ? Does that path lead to attracting users ?



     
    centime, Jul 10, 2008 IP
  14. JamieG

    JamieG Banned

    Messages:
    1,827
    Likes Received:
    126
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #54
    I don't think it is the path anymore. In a good niche you should be able to interact with the visitor, In the project I plan to do I want to offer more than just links. Attracting visitors is to give them offers via the advertisers etc.
     
    JamieG, Jul 10, 2008 IP
  15. estateguy

    estateguy Peon

    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    6
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #55
    I am starting a group of 12 new directories within my niche. These will be primarily linking directories. I expect to charge attorneys $19.97 a month for all 12. Hopefully this will serve my other niche and heavy content sites.
    I am using a two prong approach
    #1 high content (exclusive directory 1 professional per market) $997 a year.
    #2 Link directory. little to no content 12 separate website within the niche linking to attorney websites. (backlinks) which are relevant to the attorney specialty.

    Thoughts?
     
    estateguy, Jul 10, 2008 IP
  16. DownUnder

    DownUnder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    152
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    #56
    each to thier own but prices seem a little high and charging by the month may lead lead to a higher drop out rate as people forget or can,t be bothered re newing maybe 12 month package or a discount for 12 months.
     
    DownUnder, Jul 10, 2008 IP
  17. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    404
    Best Answers:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #57
    Warning, long post coming...:rolleyes::D

    Can't speak for anyone else, but my first niche directory is based on trends I was seeing on a DP-sized crafting forum. Crafting has always been part of our home and I am fairly familiar with the supplies, a variety of crafting techniques, as well as selling finished items. Even as a kid, a trip to the craft store was a bigger treat than going just about anywhere.

    Long before I had even known what a directory is and anything about scripts, smarty, and templating; I had been designing Crafty Tips in my head.

    I knew my niche and the people working in it. I've met and talked to crafters at shows and fairs from Seattle to the North Carolina coast and many places in between. I had forum friends who thought the site would be a winner before it was even launched. I knew crafters are always on the look out for sites and constantly are asking in the forums 'hey does anyone know a site that has ---?' And I also saw the complaints about the older craft directories having so many dead links.

    I knew I could do something original, unique and better than what was out there and many of the submitters already knew about my idea and me. I am far from the biggest in my niche but I only accept top quality sites and am ruthless with the delete button. Quality first, always.

    Crafty Tips gets hundreds of visitors a day, with 90+% non-submitters. My top listing has received almost 1800 highly targeted visitors from me and I've sent almost 800 to the 10th placed site. Crafty Tips is my favorite of all of my sites, directory or otherwise.

    I launched Pet Site Guides for profit, to show off my skills with a new script and with the intention of getting links at any cost. My specialist knowledge? Our house has been home to cats, dogs, parakeets, a cockatiel, a golden-mantled Rosella (small parrot), frogs, and tankfuls of fishes and snails. Fun for our family was visiting a new zoo. I was not a pet forum participant and had no existing contacts. This was going to be all about making money. Crafty Tips would be about quality; this one would be for quantity.

    I did not research pet sites and my site suffered for it. I didn't realize that every Tom, Dick, and Harry seems to have an affiliate shop, MFA, or PLR website about some dog, cat or bird breed. (Lots of crappy craft sites too but nowhere near like there are in pets.) I accepted anything - the more the merrier? The site languished and only attracted more of the same junk. Traffic tanked and Google and the others stopped sending visitors. (The site wasn't penalized, just receiving scores it deserved.)

    One submitter was simply creating affiliate site after affiliate site with the same template. Near the end of the devil-may-care, accept anything period, he was the only one submitting. When he submitted a cat one with all of the dog pictures left-over from the last dog-related one, I knew something had to change.

    I cleaned out the crap, got a new script, created a new design and started over. I'm still rebuilding and finding decent sites is ridiculously hard. It literally can take me an hour or two to find one decent non-commercial site to add. (Commercial sites have to find me. Just seems more fair that way.) Traffic is growing slowly and may one day meet or exceed that of my first directory.

    With niche directories, I can tell which ones were made for money alone and which ones were made due to a passion or interest on the topic. It shows, trust me. The ones made for money may achieve higher PR and earn more advertising revenue in the short term but its the ones based on a love/knowledge of topic, at least IMHO, that will more tightly maintain categories and provide long-term traffic to submitters. Income might be slower but it will also be consistent and continuously growing.

    The difference in initial focus - make a resource first about a topic you are passionate/knowledgeable about vs make something without regard to quality - made all the difference. While my pet site is still way behind where it should be for its age, I am now attracting submissions from real companies selling their own products and animals, not just some schmuck who is building 50 of the same site just with different keywords. I am once again seeing some traffic from the search engines trickle in and have had several small pet forum owners mention my site to their members.

    Look at the wasteland that the Announcements forum has become - QBCs and turn-over-artists aren't making niche sites. There's nothing quick about building a quality niche site. But, if done right, it has much more potential to survive Google PR updates and algorithm changes.

    But, please, just ignore this bit of opinion and advice and keep making general directories or niche directories without any knowledge or passion for the topic - all them PLR, MFA, and affiliates need someplace to advertise. :D
     
    YMC, Jul 10, 2008 IP
  18. Event_King

    Event_King Guest

    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    58
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #58
    See this the problem, the average Joe thinks "Great, I'll set up a site or that I think is a great idea, and within hours It will be swamped with eager visitors"

    It won't!

    I bet had you known that it would take upto 2 hours to locate a half-decent site, you wouldn't have even started the project? I think you'll waste so much time on this, that you'll eventually get bored and jack it in - and then there's no benefit for users anyway. My advice is to make this opt-in submit, and charge a small fee to keep the spammers out. Or you'll waste so much time on getting this filled, trust me I know exactly what this takes to start one of these things, and without strong promotion or a great idea, things will get worse.


    It's all very commendable what you're doing and I can see you want to serve a sector of interest, but 2 hours to find a site :eek:, it's just shocking and you're wasting your time with this, unless you change methods. You need to attract submitters with craft businesses and heavily reduce your workload, or it will fail.

    Hope this helps :)
     
    Event_King, Jul 11, 2008 IP
  19. YMC

    YMC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,787
    Likes Received:
    404
    Best Answers:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    190
    #59
    I think you misunderstood, it's the pet realm that has such a dearth of quality sites. I have found it interesting that the spammers who were submitting to my pet directory have not come back since the changes. The spammers are so very easy to weed out on the craft one - no tip, delete.

    The irony is that when I go looking for sites for either of my directories, I search for the topic on one of the search engines and start with page 6+ of the results. I am finding for both crafts and pets that the sites with the best stuff are often themselves made from a passion of topic and not with SEO, SERPs, and monetization in mind. The search engines don't do them justice and put many MFA, long-winded sales-letter sites, and even sites written so badly as to be unreadable before them. For some of the sites I'm finding, mine is their first directory listing. Works for me and in those cases I believe my sites are better than Google. :D
     
    YMC, Jul 11, 2008 IP
  20. swedal

    swedal Notable Member

    Messages:
    3,768
    Likes Received:
    427
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    230
    #60
    EK - this might be why most seem to be saying the best niche is one you have a strong interest in.
     
    swedal, Jul 11, 2008 IP