Is it shameful to live as a Gay/Lesbian?

Well put skirat44, this post really sums up the current race situation in the United States

 

Thanks, and I even used spell check for you!

 

And your post looked very professional

 

I find it interesting that so many people will so easily make extremely offensive comments about gay people. There are a great many types of people in this world that I don't understand, but never once have I found it appealing to make vulgar, condescending and insulting statements about them.

With that said, I am a lesbian in a long term commited relationship that I consider to be a marriage despite the fact that the government will not allow me that right. I live with the belief that there will come a day, hopefully in my lifetime, when that will change.

Just as there are many types of people, there are many types of gay people. The same characteristics that make a straight person unappealing to me will also make a gay person unappealing to me. One's sexuality doesn't dictate their value to me; it is how a person treat others that does.

 

Here here, Nojuju. I applaud you for that informative and highly respectful post. For your sake and the gay community at large, I also hope one day that marriages between same sex couples will be recognized in the eyes of the State. As a straight person who has the right to marry whomever she chooses, I feel strongly for gay rights and believe two people in love should be allowed to marry despite their orientation.

Unfortunately, there are those in this world who strongly oppose these beliefs.

 

I just think that it is ironic that celebrities can make a mockery of the institution of marriage by marrying and divorcing at will, while a committed gay couple is denied the right to sanctify their bond in the eyes of the law.

 

Well said. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Thanks Denise.

And I agree Alfie. Although, I guess it isn't just celebrities who behave that way. You know, if it were just about the government's *opinion* of my relationship, I wouldn't care. I can face any person or entitiy's judgement of me and not blink an eye. Unfortunately, it goes deeper than just casting judgement. Until same sex marriage is legalized in the US, I will have no rights to see my partner if she is in critical care in the hospital, she will have no rights to my personal belongings, should I die, even if I leave them to her in my will, should one of my relatives decide to contest that. We are unable to protect eachother with health insurance, social security... well, the list is long, so I won't blabber on and on. In all, there are over 1049 rights that marital status grants, and as it stands, no matter how long we are together, no matter how commited our relationship, no matter how exemplary we are as citizens, patriots or human beings... we will not be afforded those rights.

Kind of sucks to be gay in America... and people think that we choose this?

 

This is an excerpt from our Watchtower magazines in 1986. There are many other excerpts like this that explore this topic in every facet:

The Homosexual Life-Style—Just How Gay Is It?

Out of the closet and into the headlines. That is the current trend for homosexuality. Books, plays, movies, television programs, and news reports publicize it, usually as an acceptable alternative life-style. But just how acceptable is it? What does it involve? Does it live up to its designation as “gay”? And what about those who resist it? Are they narrow-minded? And God, does he find it acceptable? What does his Word, the Bible, say about it? These are important questions, in view of the propaganda for its acceptance.

IN THE United States, books and plays about homosexual life are reviewed in the press. A book on lesbian nuns reaches six-figure sales and is reviewed on a popular daytime TV show. New York City’s board of education endorses a high school for homosexuals. The congregation of Riverside Church (nondenominational, 3,000 members) in the borough of Manhattan, New York City, votes “in favor of a policy statement accepting homosexual relationships as part of the concept of Christian family life.”

“Britain is to have its first Gay Olympics,” the London Daily Mail reported. A three-part British documentary “suggests Jesus could have been a homosexual.” In Toronto, Canada, a “homosexual festival kicks off with 2,000 parading downtown,” and it “included an interdenominational church service.” Gay parades, gay churches, gay bookstores, gay bars, gay bathhouses, gay political activists with their gay bills of rights—on and on this self-styled gaiety proliferates within society.

Growing Propaganda for the Gay Life-Style

Those who resist it are the ones who are lectured. In New York City, an avowed homosexual was appointed to the bench of the criminal court. At the time he was sworn in, he “praised himself for his ‘courage’ to be what he is,” then “kissed his male lover and received a standing ovation.” There was some opposition, but the city’s largest newspaper, the Daily News, editorialized that anyone who opposed the appointment of the homosexual judge “is a bigot.”

During November 1985 in their nightly newscasts, two network-owned-and-operated TV stations in New York City, WNBC and WABC, ran special segments on homosexuality—to hop on the homosexual bandwagon, as one reporter indicated. The WNBC series, entitled “If Your Kid Is Gay,” was especially aimed at parental responses to homosexual children. Psychiatrists on the program indicated that in such children this sexual orientation was natural and deep-seated and that parents should not try to change it. ‘Better to have your child happy and homosexual,’ one said, ‘than unhappy and heterosexual.’

The March 1985 issue of Seventeen suggested that if you are troubled by anyone’s being homosexual, you may need to seek counsel “at a local gay community services center.” Its article concluded with a statement by “Reverend” Robert H. Iles: “Whether you love men or love women is, in the final analysis, not as important as the fact that you are able to love.” He equates love with sex and says, Make love, whether homo or hetero.

One British educator lamented that in schools “all sex education programmes are made for heterosexuals . . . not one of them had made a single programme for gay pupils.” He also complained that “most school libraries will only stock romances . . . with heterosexual heroes and heroines—despite the increasing volume of gay fiction.” He pinpointed the cause of prejudice against homosexuals: “The idea that heterosexuality is superior . . . is precisely the attitude at the root of the prejudice.”

Homosexual “Love”

But isn’t heterosexuality superior? Do not the design and natural functions of the bodily parts involved make this obvious? Isn’t male with female the obvious norm, and male with male the obvious perversion? Homosexual “love” involves practices the apostle Paul must have had in mind when he spoke of things “not even [to] be mentioned among you” and “shameful even to relate.” (Ephesians 5:3, 12) Nevertheless, at times he did feel it necessary to allude to those shameful practices at Romans 1:24-27. The present also seems to be such a time. Homosexuality has come storming out of the closet. With a chip on its shoulder, it parades about as an acceptable life-style. But is it? Just what does it involve?

The medical magazine Practical Gastroenterology, in its issue of July/August 1985, detailed for doctors treating homosexuals some of the practices of the gay life-style. It indicates that mutual masturbation is commonly practiced, as are also oral and anal sex. Other unbelievably shocking practices are explicitly detailed in the article.

It shows that homosexuality can descend into sadomasochism, the joy of degrading and being degraded. For true Christians this life-style is totally unacceptable. The insidious propaganda now flooding out on its behalf must be shunned like the plague it is.

The Gay Harvest

Such flagrant abuses are not practiced with impunity. As people sow, they reap. Practical Gastroenterology ran a series of articles on diseases caused by homosexuality. Hepatitis simplex, liver infections, gonorrhea, syphilis, parasitic infections, small-bowel lymphoma, Kaposi’s sarcoma, and, of course, the dreadful AIDS—these are just a few of the diseases considered in its issues of July/August and September/October 1985.

New research convicts AIDS of damaging the brain and the spinal cord. The science section of The New York Times, October 15, 1985, reports: “Some of these patients show clear signs of dementia, including memory loss, inability to plan or make decisions, and a remarkable indifference to everything. Others develop partial paralysis, loss of muscle coordination or even worse problems in control of their bodies . . . Some of the brains of AIDS victims are shrunken. Their interior spaces, called the ventricles, are dilated and parts of the all-important cerebral cortex appear shriveled . . . Even if treatments can be devised to halt a virus infection and allow the immune defense system to rebuild itself, brain damage is likely to be permanent.”

AIDS, currently incurable, cases more than doubling yearly, always fatal, and spreading worldwide. Principally afflicts homosexuals, but also intravenous drug users and recipients of blood transfusions or blood products. Also babies born to virus-infected mothers. Spread by bodily fluids, the virus is found in blood, sperm, urine, saliva, and tears. It has a long incubation period. Many years may separate exposure to the virus and the outbreak of AIDS, making early diagnosis impossible. The virus lies within, a time bomb waiting to explode—but who knows when?

It is now exploding worldwide. More than a million people—some say nearly two million—in the United States are estimated to have been exposed to the AIDS virus. More than 14,500 cases since 1981, over 7,000 of whom have died. The number of cases is escalating throughout the world—Europe, Asia, Australia, Caribbean countries, nearly 20 African nations, and 15 countries in the Americas. Last year the number of nations reporting cases of AIDS to the World Health Organization in Geneva jumped from 40 in August to 71 in October, with the case count at that time nearing 17,000.

A Life-Style Unacceptable to Jehovah

Homosexuality is not an alternative life-style acceptable to Jehovah God. Frequently, both gay and liberal preachers twist the scriptures in futile endeavors to make it seem that it is. (2 Peter 3:16) Thousands of years ago Jehovah destroyed Sodom because most of the males of that city practiced it. (Genesis 19:4-25) Centuries later the apostle Peter likened men who copied those Sodomites to “unreasoning animals born naturally to be caught and destroyed.”—2 Peter 2:6-13.

In unmistakable language, both male homosexuality and lesbianism are condemned by the inspired apostle Paul: “God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.”—Romans 1:26, 27.

Paul also wrote: “Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Other Bible translations render the expression “men who lie with men” in various ways, as follows: sodomites, perverts, sexual perverts, homosexual perverts, homosexual perversion, and just plain homosexuals.

A Happy Life-Style Without End

There is nothing gay about the gay harvest. It can be avoided by listening to Jehovah: “I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.”—Isaiah 48:17, 18.

Some psychiatrists and others, however, say that homosexuality cannot be “cured,” even by religious conversion. Very difficult, perhaps, but not impossible. The apostle Paul showed this when he next said: “And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean.” (1 Corinthians 6:11) So it was done by early Christians. And it has been done today. It will yet be done by others who turn to Jehovah for help: “For all things I have the strength by virtue of him who imparts power to me.” (Philippians 4:13) Therefore, “strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe yourselves with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it.”—Colossians 3:9, 10.

Jehovah hates what is bad, but he is ready to show mercy to individuals repenting of their wrongdoing. Jehovah’s Witnesses also hate the bad, including their own fleshly imperfections, but they do not hate themselves or other individuals who do the badness. Hate the sin but not the sinner is Jehovah’s precept and also that of his worshipers. The Bible writer Jude says: “Continue showing mercy to others, doing so with fear, while you hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh.”—Jude 23; see also Psalm 97:10, Matthew 5:43-48, and Romans 7:15-25.

As the apostle Paul wrote at Romans 3:23: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” But all sinners, including homosexuals, who take in accurate Bible knowledge and act upon it will reap benefits now and gain eternal life in a paradise earth.—Psalm 37:10, 11, 29; Matthew 6:10; John 17:3; Revelation 21:3-5.

 

Exactly, I will never understand how people come to the conclusion that homosexuality is a choice. As a heterosexual, I do not decide who I am attracted to, it is just a natural instinct. Therefore, why would it be any different for someone who is a homosexual?

As far as the Watchtower post, Christian propaganda from the 80s is about the least compelling evidence for me to reconsider my views on homosexuality. This document just adds to the list of reasons why I think organized religion is one of the biggest causes of division within our society, and choose not to associate myself with any religious group.

 

it's not shameful to live as gay/lesbian unless you lock of self-respect...
sometime homosexials are most famous ones...

 

I agree. I also think a lot of the problem is down to boxes.Not cardboard boxes -- categories and pigeon holes

On the one hand you have people preaching tolerance and understanding, yet at the same time they're coming up with new PC terminology for you to box that type of person off inoffensively.

I think we spend too much time trying to categorize people by what makes them different from us and all it does is reinforce the gap between two people. I think if you were to focus more on what people have in common, you may be able to start to build bridges between us.

I certainly don't think there is any bright future for us as humans, if we insist on defining people by how different we are from one another.It is weird though, if we were invaded tomorrow by creatures from another planet, you can guarantee that all of us would stand shoulder to shoulder.A single race, united.Deep down we all know we are on the same team, the trouble is getting people to see it on a daily basis.

 

Did you even read the last paragraphs of that post? Don't hate the sinner but the sin. What does this say to you? It certainly does not give reason to cause division. BTW, even though this magazine was written in the 80's does not mean the viewpoint from the Bible has changed. The viewpoint from God has never changed no matter what anyone thinks. It's up to us to find out what that viewpoint is. Once you find out, then you will find out our life's purpose is according to our creator.

Hope this helps.

 

New topic folks ...

I was walking through Amsterdam this morning and saw a man (an old one at that!) walking down the street in black leather sandles with heels, a frilly flowery half unbuttoned shirt, a skirt and a beard...now IS THAT SHAMEFUL?

 

You know...a lot of the sodomy stuff was thrown in to the bible as reactionary to the views of the Romans and Greeks...

the bible was written by man, not god.

and in the end, it's the most clever and powerful piece of marketing.

 

Not everyone believes in "God's" viewpoint to begin with. I have no religious affiliation, and this is one of the many reasons why. If your God is so loving and tolerant, gay people would not be discriminated against; rather, they would be accepted for who they are, which should be the case anyway. Preaching tolerance and preaching bigotry are two entirely separate things. Many people have yet to figure that out, it seems or confuse one with the other.

 

You're right, I did not even read to the end of that post because half the things it was saying were ridiculous in my opinion, such as:

Some psychiatrists and others, however, say that homosexuality cannot be “cured,” even by religious conversion.


Why does it need to be cured? It is not a sickness or disease, it is just how many people are born, and no one has the right to try and change them for any reason.

 

All I would like to say is dont be a Gay and get married to a female (Just to show ppl that ur straight and be an ASSHOLE) similarly dont be a lesbian and get married to a male... by doing this u r screwing up ur partner's life. Live with whatever you are and let others live. Do NOT screw someone else's life FFS!!!

 

Live and let live, as the old saying goes. Why does someone's sexual orientation have to affect you? To each their own, right? That's the way it needs to be. A person's sexual orientation does not define who they are; it's simply an extension of them.

 

you know - this happens WAY too often unfortunately. My sister and her husband are both devout christians, and her husband is singularly the GAYEST man i have ever met. The sad thing is though, he's living in TOTAL denial.

you want to talk about a "cure"? well i guess in your eyes he's cured ain't he? he's married, a devout christian, and i can guarantee you he doesn't identify as gay at all. yay you - you "cured" another one. yippee.

only thing is - my sister is depressed. she knows something's wrong. she's gained over 150 pounds since the marriage, and the once vivacious and beautiful woman she was has now turned into a dumpy, sad, and confused little girl. the last time we went to see them, she felt compelled (and mind you, this is a big step for her) to take my wife aside and ask her about our sex life, in the context of trying to determine how "normal" their sex life is. She told my wife that things had "slowed down" since the birth of their second son, (which had been born 18 months prior to this conversation) and my wife asked her what she meant by "slowed down"... and there was a pause. My sister then replied "well, we haven't actually had sex since the baby was born".

That's a year and a half.

Somewhere around 500 nights.

You wanna tell me that's normal?

and don't you tell me that they're "bad" or "phony" christians or some crap like that - my sister and her husband are about as devout as they come.

people are born gay, or they're not. as many have pointed out, why would you "choose" to be gay? it ain't something you choose, so back off with that. It ain't a "way of life" either. it's the way you're born.

i feel so sad for my sister - that she's married a man who may well decide one day that he's gay after all and leave her high and dry. it happens ALL THE TIME i'm afraid.

if you people would spend less time nit-picking other's lifestyles, beliefs, morals, virtues and values, and worry more about your own moral compass, then you too could start making the world a better place for everyone.

VG