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Is it illegal to sell emails?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by toretic, Sep 9, 2008.

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  1. illegal-email

    illegal-email Peon

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    #21
    lcwadminbj,

    I do find it very funny that you call someone a 'little Jerk' and you take the time to capitalize the 'J.' (As in a BIG J Jerk! HA!)

    So you're in the UK then - and the UK has a law that says people cannot sell emails? So out of curiosity - how do operations like InfoUSA.com get away with selling emails - because they do?

    And about my activities - you can assume what you want and call me names before you know what I'm doing. You have no idea who I am, what I do, and what I am doing here by asking questions. So wouldn't it be unfair to label me before you know? You tell me to Google the stuff to find what I want - well guess what? I did Google it and guess what I found...this forum. So since I saw posts, response, and activites related to the same questions I had - I decided to join and post to see if I could get any kind of INTELLIGENT responses. (I know - a far cry from well invested time - but I felt worth the long shot.)

    So here are a few questions for you since you do seem, perhaps, to have a little knowledge on it - and perhaps by some more digging I can get straight facts out of you:

    CAN SPAM ACT - load of crap - well I would assume you refer to the same when others refer to it as the You CAN Spam Act! However - assuming is also a mistake - so let's not do that. Can you elaborate on 'load of crap?' I just had one of those about an hour ago - but I'm pretty sure that it was totally unrelated to email sending - except that perhaps it was with me when I sent a few emails late last night.

    Some 'little Jerk' (BIG J - LOVE IT - like you give them Godlike status!) emails with out your permission. That is UBE - Unsolicitd Bulk Email (most likely bulk anyway) - YOU call that SPAM. The sender may call it an ad. So where's the problem here? Again - CAN SPAM ACT protects that. You may not like it - but you still haven't pointed to it being illegal! Can you?

    Email being harvested - if the site that posts your email states that taking the email is against terms of service in any way - then correct. But if you post the email on a site that does not have this term of service and you publish to the public - you would be open game to receive email from those people. (That would have been a poor decision on your part to put your email on a site like that - and I would think that most sites would have terms of service that prohibited the harvesting activity - but again - with no such terms of service - those emails are open for the taking.) If you can prove to me otherwise - that's why I'm here - please do tell.

    If you sign for mail XYZ and said owner of XYZ puts you on ABC - if the terms of XYZ list called for the distribution of your info to other companies - like ABC - then you agreed to it. If XYZ has a privacy policy that legally binds them to not release your info and they still do it to ABC - you would be correct - there is a breach of agreement there. So I guess the moral of the story here is that be careful of that for which you sign up.

    You refer to ads that are not SPAM and ads that are SPAM being the difference between whether or not you signed up for them. Again - if you gave your info to someone where the agreeement called for open distribution of your info - and you agreed - well...? Also - what is the definition of SPAM? To me it sounds like it's a matter of opinion. Again - I refer to the CAN SPAM ACT. If I am trying to promote and/or sell something - and I'm legitimate company - and I follow the 7 rules - it is NOT SPAM. The CAN SPAM ACTS calls to stop malicious and damaging software, viruses, phishing scams, and the likes of the activities run by gangs and mobs. Also - porn - you need to state thta the material is 'sexually explicit.' So it stops what is the US Gov't's opinion to be SPAM - deceptive - hiding - stealing - promoting porn with out warning.

    To you an unsolicited ad may be considered SPAM - because you want to call it spam. But to someone promoting a legitimate business - they call it an ad.

    So if the law states that it's legal to send - you can call it blue with pink pokadots for all anyone cares - but if the law says it's ok - then it's ok. With the proper unsubscribe link - you have the right to stop it (part of the law) - and then it's over. But just because you call it spam doesn't make it illegal.

    Now - all of the above is my current take on how this all works - and I admit - by no stretch of the imagination do I have this all figured out and my take may be ridden with error. - AGAIN! the reason I decided to start responding to this forum topic - because it is RELATED to what I'm trying to research.

    I would like to operate a legitimate business that helps other legitimate businesses accomplish their goals. But the key word is legitimate. I'm simply trying to find anyone with intelligence on the matter to point me to the proper places to read, research, and otherwise interpret what the current state of affairs are in the legal world of unsolicited bulk email.

    Thanks in advance for your intelligent replies.
     
    illegal-email, Jun 28, 2010 IP
  2. illegal-email

    illegal-email Peon

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    #22
    omarabid,

    Can you elaborate on what you are saying? I think it's similar to my take on harvesting emails. If the permission is given from the site to take the emails - then you are ok to take them? Is this what you mean - if not can you explain?

    But what do you mean by conversion rate? What does that have to do with collecting emails?
     
    illegal-email, Jun 28, 2010 IP
  3. lcwadminbj

    lcwadminbj Peon

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    #23
    What omarabid is saying is that if you intend to sell the emails you should state this on the site where the signup form is located.
    However doing this will reduce the number of people that will give their information.
    The conversion rate is the number of people that fill in the form in relation to the number of people that actually visit the site.
    if 1in every 100 fill in the form then you have a 1% conversion rate if
    by telling people you are going to sell their emails only 1 in every 1000 fill in the form you now have a conversion rate of 0.1%

    As for your questions to me. Give me a little while to formulate my answer as it is obviously going to be a long one.
     
    lcwadminbj, Jun 29, 2010 IP
  4. supernovastar

    supernovastar Peon

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    #24
    Hello illegal-email,


    Per your request, I have listed (below) section 7704 of the USC which explicitly states that it is illegal to sell (including lease, exchange, or otherwise transfer or release) an email address (in your example, email address lists) when the recipient(s) has made a request not to receive any commercial email messages from such sender. Personally, I always and immediately send a request to any online businesses in which I purchase products or services from.



    15 USC Sec. 7704
    TITLE 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE
    CHAPTER 103 - CONTROLLING THE ASSAULT OF NON-SOLICITED PORNOGRAPHY
    AND MARKETING

    Sec. 7704. Other protections for users of commercial electronic
    mail

    (4) Prohibition of transmission of commercial electronic mail
    after objection
    (A) In general
    If a recipient makes a request using a mechanism provided
    pursuant to paragraph (3) not to receive some or any commercial
    electronic mail messages from such sender, then it is unlawful -

    (iv) for the sender, or any other person who knows that the
    recipient has made such a request, to sell, lease, exchange,
    or otherwise transfer or release the electronic mail address
    of the recipient (including through any transaction or other
    transfer involving mailing lists bearing the electronic mail
    address of the recipient) for any purpose other than
    compliance with this chapter or other provision of law.


    As you can see from the cited verbiage above, it doesn't get any clearer than that.



    When the recipient initially agreed to the terms of service and then in a timely manner, the recipient sends a request to the sender, as in the example case listed from another poster, "If you sign for mail XYZ and said owner of XYZ puts you on ABC - if the terms of XYZ list called for the distribution of your info to other companies - like ABC - then you agreed to it. If XYZ has a privacy policy that legally binds them to not release your info and they still do it to ABC - you would be correct - there is a breach of agreement there. So I guess the moral of the story here is that be careful of that for which you sign up.", it is still illegal. The only thing that the sender can do is to file a lawsuit against the recipient for breach of contract with respect to the terms of service.





    Cheers!


    Steve







     
    supernovastar, Jan 13, 2013 IP
  5. Kwikode

    Kwikode Active Member

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    #25
    The only way I see this being legal is if you build the email list from scratch with an explanation in your privacy policy that you will be selling their addresses to a third party. Then whoever opts-in to your list has agreed to let you sell their email. It's all a grey area though, I'd personally stay away from spammy list selling altogether.
     
    Kwikode, Jan 19, 2013 IP
  6. dess71

    dess71 Well-Known Member

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    #26
    It's illegal in my opinion but there are companies that sell emails
     
    dess71, Jan 11, 2016 IP
  7. Mihai775

    Mihai775 Greenhorn

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    #27
    spamming is not verry healthy for you, unless you do it for an affiliate program
     
    Mihai775, Jan 14, 2016 IP
  8. pmf123

    pmf123 Notable Member

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    #28
    it is not illegal if you have consent from subscriber, ie your signup policy says you will share their email to other companies

    if someone you sell to spams them, its them that can get in trouble if they dont comply with can-spam act
     
    pmf123, Jan 16, 2016 IP
  9. Chris Pembs

    Chris Pembs Greenhorn

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    #29
    This depends on the data protection legislation for your jurisdiction.
    In many jurisdictions you are required to register with your statutory data protection body/registrar as a data controller if you are digitally collecting and maintaining a database of the details of individuals that could be used to identify them (this includes email addresses). If you are only storing email addresses for membership purposes (i.e. so users can log in to your site) then this generally will not require data protection registration (but refer to the specific rules for your jurisdiction). However, if you plan to distribute the email addresses to third parties, then this membership exemption most likely will not apply and you will probably be required to register as a data controller (again refer to the data protection rules for your specific jurisdiction).
    If you have registered as a data protection controller, this does not give you the right to do anything you want with the email addresses.
    Principles of data protection legislation generally require that all information is kept confidential, unless the individual to which the information relates gives their specific permission for it to be disseminated.
    The best way to do this is to state clearly in your 'terms and conditions' that their information will be used in this way and get your users to click a check box to confirm they are happy with this (i.e. 'opt-in', NOT 'opt-out').
    Breach of data protection legislation can give rise to criminal proceedings in many jurisdictions (i.e. a criminal record and/or fines and/or prison and/or repercussions on your ability to own companies).
    It is also important to note that if you are using cookies to harvest email address, EU legislation requires you to give an 'opt-in' 'cookie warning' if your website is operating in the EU.
    Some jurisdictions have specific anti-spamming legislation which relates specifically to organizations sending out unsolicited email, and/or organizations that distribute email addresses to organizations that are likely to use it for this purpose.
    This answer gives a general overview of the requirements of data protection legislation in common jurisdictions, but I cannot be more specific as I don't know where you are.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
    Chris Pembs, Feb 25, 2016 IP
  10. JDMS

    JDMS Greenhorn

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    #30
    The Data Protection Act (UK) prevents the (original) list owners from sharing their data with third parties without the consent of the person or persons whose data they hold.

    There are direct mail list brokers who legitimately rent out lists (names and addresses as well as email addresses) but they do so legally IF and only IF the list owners has been given permission by those on their lists for their details to be shared/rented to a third party. As subscribers, it's up to us to ensure that we check or uncheck boxes that provide permission or forbid certain actions relating to how our data is used.

    In short, you can (if you wish to risk legal action) but you may NOT share your customers' data without their express permission. Do bear in mind, though, that if you are that list owner and on your optin page you state that you will not rent/share/sell the subscribers' names to any third party, then that is a legally binding contract that you breach at your peril. That goes for your Privacy Policy Statement which may state the same.

    If, however, you clearly state in your Privacy Policy on your site and immediately below the optin box of your landing page that by opting in the subscriber gives the web owner automatic and full rights to the data to do with it what he/she likes, then that, too, is a legally binding contract. Should you then sell or rent the names out to a third party, the subscriber cannot have any grounds for complaint. Just check the terms of Facebook where one's data becomes Facebook's property to do with it what FB likes.

    If you set out your terms of business clearly on your site (not small print that no one notices), then it's up to the visitor to decide whether or not your terms are acceptable to them. For instance, on our sites, we state very clearly that subscribers' email addresses will NOT be shared/rented or sold to third parties for marketing purposes. In our TOS, we also state that in the event of our company being sold, together with its asset of which the customer data forms a part, that data will be transferred to the new owners. Now, if a visitor finds that unacceptable, they need not sign up to join our list or purchase any of our products or services. But if they do, then that is an indication of the visitors' acceptance of our terms.

    Disclaimer: I am not a legal expert but I've drawn up enough business contracts between our companies and our clients to ensure both parties are clear about exactly what they are signing up to when they do business with us. I have successfully resolved two legal issues with large companies which attempted to breach our terms and have also prevented one list owner from continuing to share my data which he had no business to do and reported him to the proper authorities to take appropriate action for that violation.
     
    JDMS, Mar 31, 2016 IP
  11. MurrayRothbard

    MurrayRothbard Well-Known Member

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    #31
    No it's not illegal to sell e-mails.
     
    MurrayRothbard, Apr 8, 2016 IP
  12. JudySlean

    JudySlean Greenhorn

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    #32
    It is illegal, all emails it is your privacy statement! That is why, be carefull!
     
    JudySlean, Apr 15, 2016 IP
  13. pmf123

    pmf123 Notable Member

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    #33
    how do you know what is in his privacy statement? it can just as easily say "we share email addresses"
     
    pmf123, Apr 18, 2016 IP
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