Is GW the worse President in the last 70 years?

You know how ridiculous that all is? Cheney does not run Bush or control him in any way imaginable. That is just some lie that has been going around for years. Your entire rant there is pretty much just lies and biased statements based upon no facts whatsoever. How is Bush personaly getting rich on the deaths of millions of Iraqis. When I do not even think American forces have personally even killed millions of Iraqis. Most of the deaths are Iraqis killing Iraqis. So that is where you are wrong to start with. Do not sit here and say american forces have killed millions and millions of innocent people during this war.

You seem to be the deluded one if anything. I know I support a fairly unpopular president but at least I am not sitting here believing the stupid crap that is circulated around.




And 2 good things.

He inherited an economy that was in a recession and then managed to even bring it out of the ruins of 9/11.

Got rid of Saddam

Killed Clinton's ergonomic"rules that OSHA was going to put in. This would of shut down every home business in America.



There are 3 right there without even trying.

 

Clinton signed H.R. 4655

While not specifically authorizing the use of force, H.R. 4655 did specify/authorize/mandate a regime change in Iraq. Bush follows through to that end, and now here we are.

What's done is done.

 

Oh wow nice, so blame Clinton for what Bush did?

A 'regime change' as a matter of policy for the US is far different from actually doing it with an act of war, based on lies, at a time when we were at war with a real enemy and can not afford it.

Bush wanted to get to war with Iraq, with or without anything Clinton did

 

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I'm merely stating facts that many have either forgotten about, or refuse to acknowledge for whatever reason.

^ This being a prime example of the alternate reality many seek.

 

uh huh..
I'm not stating any 'alternate reality' as you claim.

A US policy of regime change in the basis of what Clinton did is not even close to what Bush did, not even apples to oranges, so far off.........

 

He most likely is (the worst president in 70 years), but he will be taken off the pedestal if Barry Obama gets elected.

 

yes bush has been a total failure

 

Hmmm, where are you living? I do not see an economy thriving after 8 years of Bush. Prices are at a all time high and people are struggling to make ends meet. I guess if you are talking about all time profits for oil companies, go Bush, he did it! For the average Americans, they are in worse shape in the last eight years.

Got rid of Saddam? What did that do for Americans? He was a little man with a big mouth! Oh it did many of our brothers, sons, daughters, and fathers killed by being sitting targets in a country that did not want us there to begin with. Again, go Bush!

The third one was just talks and no proof that it would have done what the opposition claimed. Instead we have the great patriot bill that removed rights of millions of citizens. Again, go Bush.

I wish you were his campaign manager in the last two elections because your arguments might have been able to lose him the election.

 

Ladies and gentleman, time to relax for 3 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbVpxsYJRT4

Now, back to discussion.

 

The economy has seen growth for the majority of the time while Bush has been in office. Aspects that are failing now includes the housing market which can really only be blamed on consumers for the most part. Prices are high because idiots keep pushing for a minimum wage increase which drives up prices so companies can pay their employers that extra dollar per hour.
Unemployment in the nation is still virtually nonexistant according to text book percentages. And Democrats want to get into office and start taxing everything like big corporations. That will do nothing but raise the prices more.

Saddam was involved in arm dealings and funding of terror groups throughout the middle east. Not so much al queda (so do not even try to say I think Saddam helped with 9/11) but other groups. And the average death rate in Iraq is around 1-2 americans a day. So I hardly see that as us being sitting ducks. And no country really wants to be invaded so that argument right there is worthless. I dount the Germans all wanted us in their country. Dont be stupid.

The Patriot Act is one of the most overly critical laws I have ever seen. Everybody acts as if the government is just sitting there spying on every citizen in the nation when that is hardly the case. My life has not changed one bit with the passing of the Patriot Act and it has not stripped me of anything. I feel safer knowing the government has more resources to stop terror atacks. There have been several attacks prevented since 9/11 becuase of better survelence.

And its people with your logic that cause the democrats to lose the last couple. Actually use some real arguments and not the junk you hear on alex jones everyday.

 

Yep just because you don't personally see your 'life changing' because of the patriot act, I love that logic.

You fail to realize giving the government any power above the constitution can and will be used and abused in due time. Even if it wasn't now, how about when those damn democrats have the same power?

Yep I'm also glad we are such pussies in this country now a days that we'd rather give up our freedoms for some umbrella theory of being more safe. Lets set that to the test everywhere shall we? Allow the government to take away anything and everything from us in the name of 'safety'

 

Yes. He is the worst president ever IMO.

 

Bush has been as absolute disaster from start to finish. Easily the biggest disaster the world has ever seen.

 

You know what's even more of a disaster than Bush? Those who still give him credit for anything!

 

It was to make a point. Everybody rants about how many of their right shave been taken away when in reality it has yet to effect any of them.

Isnt the purpose of a government to protect the citizens? Now I do not support the Patriot Act being legal at all times. I think it should be repealed when the time comes.

 

Are you sure it hasn't effected a single person? Last I read it had
It does not matter if it doesn't effect someone as you call it, as if it erodes any freedoms it does effect everyone as a nation.

At the cost of what? The freedom and the constitution that our forefathers fought and died to bring us?

Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither.

Fast food kills more in the US than terrorism ever has, are you prepared to give up your big macs and 1/4 pounders with cheese even though that is not protected by the constitution, how about tobacco and liquor and so many other items that kill more people than terrorism, if it's their job lets let them take all those items from us, especially when they are not protected by the constitution in the first place directly.

 

I didnt say a it hasnt effected a single person. Sure it has. Mostly suspects of terrorists but it hasnt effected the regular average american like you and I.

The fastfood example is a strawman argument. Fastfood is a choice. I do not think the people on 9/11 wanted a plane to be flown into buildings.
And it is the governments job to protect the borders of the nation and threats against the nation. It is not the governments job to tell us what to eat (though sadly they sometimes do).

 

The constitution protects many items that do not effect the average American, making your point truly mute.

Not a strawman at all, you stated it's their job to protect us, you did not state only protect us from certain things, when it's not a choice or convenient.

Yes sure they should protect us WITHIN the constitution, not outside of it.

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Had the patriot act specifically stated it is for NON us citizens only I would support it 110% as I do not believe the constitution protects non US citizens. It however does not state this, it also brings many items into it that truly are not 'terrorism'.

 

Just for the record what does the Patriot Act have in it that is unconstitutional?

Actually is a strawman and still wrong. You and I both do not like it when the government gets involved in our personal lives so do not even try to use this lame argument and compare it to something that it isnt.

People choose to eat. Eating a big mac would not harm people if we all werent so damn lazy. So the government should not be controlling our food. There are no dangers to eating. There are dangers to eating and being lazy so by your argument the government would would have to basically force us to exercise.

But since your entire point was a strawman then there is no need for any of that. As I stated people choose to eat and us eatin is not a matter of national security or protecting out borders. The Patriot Act is a matter of protecting us and national security.

I believe the government should be allowed to have the tools to do their job when the need arises. Also as I stated earlier, I do not feel as if they should have these powers at all times. I do not like the idea of being monitored more then any of you. I am against street cameras. I am basically against it all. But I do feel as if the Patriot Act was implemented to do the right thing and is doing the right thing.

 

This is what is unconstitutional.

Expands terrorism laws to include “domestic terrorism” which
could subject political organizations to surveillance, wiretapping,
harassment, and criminal action for political advocacy.
Expands the ability of law enforcement to conduct secret
searches, gives them wide powers of phone and Internet
surveillance, and access to highly personal medical, financial,
mental health, and student records with minimal judicial oversight.
Allows FBI Agents to investigate American citizens for criminal
matters without probable cause of crime if they say it is for
“intelligence purposes.”
Permits non-citizens to be jailed based on mere suspicion and to
be denied re-admission to the US for engaging in free speech.
Suspects convicted of no crime may be detained indefinitely in six
month increments without meaningful judicial review.
First Amendment - Freedom of religion, speech, assembly,
and the press.
Fourth Amendment - Freedom from unreasonable searches
and seizures.
Fifth Amendment - No person to be deprived of life, liberty or
property without due process of law.
Sixth Amendment - Right to a speedy public trial by an
impartial jury, right to be informed of the facts of the accusation,
right to confront witnesses and have the assistance of counsel.
Eighth Amendment - No excessive bail or cruel and unusual
punishment shall be imposed.
Fourteenth Amendment - All persons (citizens and noncitizens)
within the US are entitled to due process and the
equal protection of the laws.

Source: http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/patriot act flyer.pdf